My friend left the Church, I'm so sad

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I see cynicalsarcasm you have a trial membership. are you cynical about Catholicism and posting sarcastically about a topic regarding our Pope?
 
In truth the Holy Father was not criticizing capitalism in general. What he was criticizing was unregulated laissez-faire capitalism only. And I agree with him.
 
Just because the Pope mentioned his criticism about capitalism and your friend leaves the Church wow. Maybe Fr Robert Sirico could help out.
 
The United States makes a strong effort to separate church and state.
By “church”, the idea is to let spiritual matters be handled by religious organizations. By “state”, the idea is to let the power of the state vis-à-vis other states and the economic welfare of its people be handled by people who specialize in those affairs.
Once religious leaders get involved in state matters, they invite deserved criticism from state leaders. Once state leaders try to control religious matters, they also invite deserved criticism from religious leaders.
Pope Francis, by making statements on economic policy, is stepping into territory he has no expertise in. His background in economics is inferior and thus his infallible authority is susceptible to being followed by people who don’t know better. The Pope should stick to spiritual matters.
 
Christ’s teachings clearly demonstrate care of the poor/marginalized etc are moral matters thus are spiritual mattes 🤷
 
7_Sorrows said:
I see cynicalsarcasm you have a trial membership. are you cynical about Catholicism and posting sarcastically about a topic regarding our Pope?
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Wow. No. It’s a username I have used for all forums I’ve ever had so I can remember them. It’s from a quote from a show I used to watch called Daria. Way to read into things so much. I definitely feel welcome here. :rolleyes:
 
andrewstx said:
In truth the Holy Father was not criticizing capitalism in general. What he was criticizing was unregulated laissez-faire capitalism only. And I agree with him.
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breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/11/29/Pope-Francis-versus-capitalism

"Therefore, governments “charged with the vigilance of the common good” must take strong steps to “exercise any form of control,” including redistributive taxes, to stop the march toward a society where “those excluded are no longer its underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised — they are no longer even part of it.”

No doubt such purple prose about “exclusion” will gain him adoring fans among the left — notwithstanding the irony that he is speaking for an institution that excludes half of humanity — women — from the ranks of priesthood. But is capitalism the cause of poverty and is redistribution the cure?"

The U.S. already has many controls on capitalism. It is no longer laissez-faire after the Sherman Anti-Trust Law was passed back at the beginning of the 20th century. The government Depts. of Agriculture, Interior, Commerce, Labor, Treasury, Health and Human Services all have restrictions on capitalism. Perhaps the Pope was more focused on Third-World Countries.
 
nmgauss said:
The United States makes a strong effort to separate church and state.
By “church”, the idea is to let spiritual matters be handled by religious organizations. By “state”, the idea is to let the power of the state vis-à-vis other states and the economic welfare of its people be handled by people who specialize in those affairs.
Once religious leaders get involved in state matters, they invite deserved criticism from state leaders. Once state leaders try to control religious matters, they also invite deserved criticism from religious leaders.
Pope Francis, by making statements on economic policy, is stepping into territory he has no expertise in. His background in economics is inferior and thus his infallible authority is susceptible to being followed by people who don’t know better. The Pope should stick to spiritual matters.
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Perhaps you could provide us with your credentials in the area of economics so we can be sure you are qualified to speak on the subject.
 
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the “rant” mentions papal infallibility. I thought the pope wasn’t issuing an ex cathedra statement…or was he?
 
nmgauss said:
I thought morality was cultural rather than spiritual.
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Not in Catholic theology.

It’s why the popes bishops and speak up in all kinds of situations, because of morals.

The whole Sermon on the Mount, Christ’s very teachings, are about morals. So are the commandments. 🤷
 
  1. Sometimes people need to leave the church to realize how wonderful it really is.
  2. While your friend’s reasoning is kind of dumb, realize that there’s probably more going on than what the Pope said.
  3. I get kind of offended when the Pope or our priests start going down the “anti-Capitalism” road, but the thing is that they are right and sometimes people don’t want to hear the truth because it makes them uncomfortable.
    Code: 
       A.  The US doesn't operate under a pure Capitalist system.   If we did, there        wouldn't be social welfare programs provided by the state.

   B.  A lot of companies these days are really about the profit and not the people.
Just look at how many stores were open on Thanksgiving compared to the way it used to be.

Remember the 2008 “recession”…that didn’t just happen. It happened because a bunch of bankers thought that they could get away with lying about their products being AAA when they really weren’t and selling complex investments that nobody (except the creators) really understood. Also, a lot of mortgage lenders were giving out mortgages to people who really couldn’t afford to be in a house in the first place. Since then, a lot of mortgage companies have folded and some homeowners still have problems figuring out who actually owns their mortgage because it’s switched hands so many times. Every once in awhile, you still find the stories about the homeowner who just got a foreclosure notice and he has no clue why. Then, he ends up in court and the bank can’t even prove that they own the house, but they want to throw the person out anyway. Even as a Capitalist, I have problems with Capitalism sometimes!!!

It may be legal to act that way, but I have a hard time believing it is morally right. I think the Pope is right to call people out on this ****! 👍

In the end, there’s not much you can do for your friend until he figures out that the Baptists (and the Republicans) aren’t “all that”.

I’m a Republican too, but I’m not invested in the idea that the business class should always get what they want when they want it. Given the examples above, it’s not like they are always looking out for their customer’s best interests. It took me a long time to figure that out, but once I did, my life has been a lot saner.

Personally, I think a lot of the bankers and government officials that caused the 2008 recession should be in jail, but it’s never going to happen. I’m still trying to figure out how to be okay with that - because I’m not.

Good luck to you.
 
cynicalsarcasm said:
Wow. No. It’s a username I have used for all forums I’ve ever had so I can remember them. It’s from a quote from a show I used to watch called Daria. Way to read into things so much. I definitely feel welcome here. :rolleyes:
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when you are a member of this forum as long as I have been, you will understand why.
 
cynicalsarcasm said:
This is what he said:

"If the “real deal” is papal infallibility and a know-nothing moron of a pope preaching theft, death, and violence, then I don’t want the real deal.

The Catholic Church needs to get it together. Either you walk in the path of Christ and eschew theft, death, and violence, or you rabidly support it like “Pope” Francis."

Basically, the horrors that socialism and communism put people through makes him discredit anything that the pope stands for based off his comment about capitalism being a sin.

I am distressed.
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You can tell your friend this is absurd:
  1. The Pope was not speaking infallably (Your friend does not know what this means) Everything the Pope says is not Infalliable.
  2. Tell him to stop believing that everything Rush Limbaugh says is infallable. Rush’s take on what the Pope said is not even close to what the POpe was talking about.
Peace!👍
 
nmgauss said:
breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/11/29/Pope-Francis-versus-capitalism

"Therefore, governments “charged with the vigilance of the common good” must take strong steps to “exercise any form of control,” including redistributive taxes, to stop the march toward a society where “those excluded are no longer its underside or its fringes or its disenfranchised — they are no longer even part of it.”

No doubt such purple prose about “exclusion” will gain him adoring fans among the left — notwithstanding the irony that he is speaking for an institution that excludes half of humanity — women — from the ranks of priesthood. But is capitalism the cause of poverty and is redistribution the cure?"

The U.S. already has many controls on capitalism. It is no longer laissez-faire after the Sherman Anti-Trust Law was passed back at the beginning of the 20th century. The government Depts. of Agriculture, Interior, Commerce, Labor, Treasury, Health and Human Services all have restrictions on capitalism. Perhaps the Pope was more focused on Third-World Countries.
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So do you believe the Pope was specifically directing his comments at the US or was it a more general statement
 
ProdigalSun said:
So do you believe the Pope was specifically directing his comments at the US or was it a more general statement
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My guess is that any society which has a substantial dichotomy between the rich and poor can consider it to be a target of the Pope’s comments. He is especially familiar with Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and Brazil. Lately Brazil has been in the news because of its burgeoning economy and horrible slums. There is a lot of wealth there, and little of it seems to be trickling down to the favelas. Perhaps his comments are directed in this direction.

The poor in the U.S. are well off compared with the Brazilian poor. Recently I saw a news article on the poor of Paraguay. I’m not familiar with Paraguay’s economy, but my hunch is that its gross domestic product is way too low to support its population. Brazil, on the other hand has one of the largest economies in the world, and appears easily to be able do more to help its poor.
 
Randy_Carson said:
I’m as politically conservative as they come, but your friend is making a ridiculous decision. I’d rather be in the right Church than in the right political party any day and for all eternity.
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Exactly! Political parties do not save us.
 
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