My friend who I thought was a devout Catholic left the church

[TheLittleLady]

I know through your profile you are Catholic, but I would have a much easier time explaining Jesus’s death with a year than the Immaculate Conception of Mary. For again the Bible tells us specifically that only one was born through this and that was our Lord and Savior Jesus.

Our Savior was was without sin from the beginning. To say that Christ had any sin to be removed is impossible.

The Immaculate Conception is when a person had the stain of original sin removed at conception.

 

[ProfFF]

So here is the question that I have. How was Mary conceived? If not through normal conception as we know it?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Through normal conception as we know it.

At the moment of that normal, plain ole conception, God miraculously saved Mary from original sin, thus, it she was immaculate, free from even the stain of original sin.

 

[ProfFF]

Right. So you tell me this if a baby dies without being baptized that soul has sin? So is that baby destined for damnation due to that sin?

 

[TheLittleLady]

[1261]) As regards children who have died without Baptism , the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus’ tenderness toward children which caused him to say: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,"64 allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church’s call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism.

 

[ProfFF]

But you are indeed saying that a baby has sin?
For we are told that if we die in sin then we cannot be with God. There is no sin in heaven.

 

[ProfFF]

2 Samuel 23 is a great example to look at for me. I truly believe babies who die go to heaven. David as we know was a man after God’s own heart. We see him say in this verse that where the child is I can go. I don’t think David would have been given that title if he was trying to get to hell. Just my thoughts.

 

[TheLittleLady]

All of mankind, with the exception of Mary, come into this world with the stain of Adam’s sin, Original Sin. Baptism is the normative method for that sin to be removed. This is why it is important that babies are baptized soon after birth.

Infant Baptism | Catholic Answers Tract

 

[steve-b]

Hey. I just ran into my friend while at work. I thought that we would have a religious conversation. I asked him about Fulton Sheen and he has heard about it. I talked to him about scrupulosity as well. He then tell me to just believe in the bible and you’ll be OK. When he sounded Protestant, then I stopped looking at him. He said that neither the Catholic Church or any Protestant Church would lead you to God. He said that he left the Catholic Church because it was heretical, like praying to Mary and the Saints. He thinks that the pope is not legitimate. I was caught off guard when he said that because he posted Fulton Sheen posts on Facebook. I don’t know if he was poorly catechized or not but it didn’t seem like it.

Sounds like, Anti clericalism aka anti authority issues bit him, which is the cause of much divisiveness in people’s lives.,

AND

THAT, is Satan’s personal playground he uses against us in particular, and Our Lord’s Church in general

Just 1 Example:
Paul writing to the Church of Rome

Rom 16:
17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create Division / dissension διχοστασίαι , in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them. 18 For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites,[b] and by fair and flattering words they deceive the hearts of the simple-minded. 19 For while your obedience is known to all, so that I rejoice over you, I would have you wise as to what is good and guileless as to what is evil; 20 then the God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

Bottom line,

Something happened in his life. And he didn’t want to obey some rule.

AND

division, dissent, from Our Lord’s Church, points back to the source of that stuff,… Satan

 

[Margaret_Ann]

So is it a mortal sin to not tell him that it’s a mortal sin to leave the church?

It seems like it would be the sin of human respect, which is a sin against the Divine virtue of Faith. I’d try to tell him once and if he disagrees with you then that’s his own fault.

Baltimore Catechism

1. Are all obliged to belong to the Catholic Church In order to be saved?

All are obliged to belong to the Catholic Church, in some way, in order to be saved.

 

[nafatyuk]

The truth is a bit more … nuanced.

For instance, those that wish to join the Church, catechumens and candidates, have baptism of intention.

Martyrs that profess the faith but are unable to be baptized have baptism of blood.

As for other non-Church members, it boils down to the oft-debated topic of invincible ignorance.
Basically, those that have it are incapable of knowing the truth of the church and are not judged for that incapability, while those that know and believe that the Church is right but reject nevertheless, are condemned.
For example, someone that grew up, lived, and died Protestant in some little podunk town and never had the opportunity to consider Catholicism would likely have invincible ignorance, but you can’t really know for sure.
A member of an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon jungle would have invincible ignorance.

For a person that grew up, say, Methodist in the suburbs, it would be different; if the reason they never learned about Catholicism was that they were simply too lazy to try, that wouldn’t be invincible ignorance, at least not fully.
But if they did learn about and reject it, do they count? It depends on them. Did they fully understand, and a myriad of other questions rise up. We don’t know for sure.

Invincible ignorance is quite a thorny subject because it’s not an exact science. How freely invincible ignorance is given and what exactly it means is often hotly contested.

So while it may be true that salvation can’t be found outside the Church, what that statement entails is a whole lot more complex.

 

[Dan_Defender]

his is usually the date that all agree upon. As a matter of fact according to an article. In the Catholic Registry a author concluded that the year was 33 A.D.

All do not agree and one author does not mean consensus. The fact is the date is not certain, we may never know.

 

[ProfFF]

So I see no response to the statements made about the renegades in your own church.