My girlfriend is in Opus Dei

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mattingly23

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Hello,

I tried doing a little background searching here but I think i need specified help. My girlfriend has been a member of Opus Dei for most of her life (as far as i know) and as we’ve been together for awhile now and certain long-term questions are troubling me. I have been brought up a Catholic, but do not adhere to religion wholeheartedly. I recognize the importance of my mildly religious upbringing and have been brought back to the church (for weekly service) upon meeting this special young lady. She is quite phenomenal and I don’t know whether to continue on with her as her background may prove difficult in a life long commitment. We are both in our 30s and she wants to remain celibate until marriage. This is a problem for me, but I have been dealing with it. She also believes in Natural Family Planning and this also bothers me as I think birth control is a necessary measure in today’s times. She comes from a very large ethnic family that is obsessive about religion and im not sure if I can assimilate that way. My question to this forum, is what else should i be asking her when we have a serious chat about our future?

First off my apologies if I offend anyone with my list of questions. I really do care about this woman and have even sought help from a priest in trying to sort through my feelings. If anyone can offer advice or other questions i should ask Id be most appreciative. Thank you.

What are your expectations for us?

Do you expect me to participate in Opus Dei?

What will it be like if I don’t - for your family?

What are your views on other forms of birth control?

If we had children would you expect them to join Opus?

What is your status in Opus Dei?
 
I think those questions are a very good start, and it’s admirable that you’re putting a lot of thought into this decision.

I’m sure others here can comment specifically on Opus Dei, but may I suggest perhaps taking a step back and looking at the “total picture” of your experience with this woman.

Perhaps you (or the two of you) could evaluate by using a book like Dr. Greg Popcak’s (Catholic pastoral counselor) The Exceptional Seven Percent: The Nine Secrets of the World’s Happiest Couples, For Better Forever.

Many parishes or Catholic Charities offices have counselors on staff who could facilitate discernment conversations with you, or even those volunteers involved in marriage preparation could probably help although you’re not engaged…sounds like you’re discerning engagement.

Popcak also has a tele-counseling service: exceptionalmarriages.com/services.htm

Maybe bringing in an objective 3rd party could help facilitate conversation between the two of you, and bring insights to each of you individually as well.
 
Also, I just noticed you asked about birth control. There is no birth control that is compatible with Church teaching. I think you will find this to be an “issue” with any Catholic woman who takes her faith seriously, not just someone in Opus Dei.

Natural Family Planning, however, is supported by Church teaching: beginningcatholic.com/catholic-natural-family-planning.html

Christopher West’s books and CDs on this subject are excellent.
 
mattingly23 said:
Hello,

I tried doing a little background searching here but I think i need specified help. My girlfriend has been a member of Opus Dei for most of her life (as far as i know) and as we’ve been together for awhile now and certain long-term questions are troubling me. I have been brought up a Catholic, but do not adhere to religion wholeheartedly. I recognize the importance of my mildly religious upbringing and have been brought back to the church (for weekly service) upon meeting this special young lady. She is quite phenomenal and I don’t know whether to continue on with her as her background may prove difficult in a life long commitment. We are both in our 30s and she wants to remain celibate until marriage. This is a problem for me, but I have been dealing with it. She also believes in Natural Family Planning and this also bothers me as I think birth control is a necessary measure in today’s times. She comes from a very large ethnic family that is obsessive about religion and im not sure if I can assimilate that way. My question to this forum, is what else should i be asking her when we have a serious chat about our future?
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I really think that, before speaking with your girlfriend, you need to look at your own faith and investigate how it relates to Catholic teaching. Did you know that pre-marital sex and contraception are both mortal sins? Are you aware of the danger that mortal sins such as fornication and contraception can pose to your salvation? Furthermore, do you realize that every Catholic is required to uphold Catholic teachings on contraception and pre-marital sex in order to present themselves as being worthy of recieving Holy Communion at mass each weekend as well as receiving the other Sacraments?

I think that it’s very difficult (in fact, it’s impossible) to consider yourself to be a practicing Catholic and to disagree on these two issues. I urge you to read up a bit more on why the Church teaches what it teaches on these issues (even just spending some time on these forums can be tremendously beneficial to one’s personal understanding of the faith).

God bless, my prayers are with you!
 
Welcome to CAF and welcome back to the Church.

You might not get answers to your questions from us as they should be posed to your girlfriend.
You see this is between her, you and God, as everyone is called to holiness and ordinary life is a path to sanctity. This is what she knows to be true, this is who she is. You may not be called yet or you may and this is why you are in conflict and confusion.

Would you consider seeking from yourself to understand why this bothers you and why you are against who she truly is. If she is a phenomenal woman as you said, what a model for your children, the community and what a gift to you. Wow.
You will be in my prayes.
 
It sounds like the faith of this girl is strong and she is firmly committed to her faith. You need to decide one of two things.

Perhaps you need to call off the relationship. Put this behind you and move on with your life. Your views on the sanctity of life and of human sexuality are different, and you would present a barrier to this woman’s salvation. You are not suited for each other.

On the other hand, consider subordinating your will to the teachings of the Church. Read a good book - I often see Christopher West recommended for his works on Theology of the Body - and Good News About Sex and Marriage might be a good place to start. You say that you are Catholic - well, start acting like one. Put away the thought of using artificial birth control. Get rid of your attachment to sex outside of wedlock. If you really love this girl, indeed, if you really love yourself, you will realize that eternal life and salvation of your soul is more important than a quick roll in the hay. Seek out a good priest and make a regular confession. Then attend Mass according to the precepts of the Church. Bring your girlfriend. It doesn’t have to be Opus Dei, you aren’t a member so they have no say in what you do. But attend Mass faithfully and receive the Eucharist whenever you are properly disposed. Consider daily Mass as a way to hear more of God’s Word and participate in the life of your parish community.

Consider becoming a Knight of Columbus. I recommend the Knights for all Catholic men, but for you especially, when you are a practical Catholic, and you need good role models in your life, the Knights will give you opportunities to volunteer, fellowship with other good men, and the chance to grow as a man and as a husband into the kind of man that God wants you to be. Being a member of the Knights will not exclude you from participation in Opus Dei. Indeed, it may complement it. But I encourage you to find out more about Opus Dei from reputable sources: the organization is widely regarded as pious and faithful to the Church. Stop reading Dan Brown novels and don’t seek out the blogs of disgruntled “former members”, because these are not accurate or factual.

I hope that you will seriously consider both of the options I have put before you. While the first option is available, I do not believe it to be a good option for yourself. Your girlfriend may benefit from a separation if you choose this path, but your soul will be jeopardized, and I don’t think that you want to forfeit eternal life for yourself. Approach your decision prayerfully and I encourage you to take the second option. While it may seem harder, you will eventually realize that when you end up in Heaven and you are looking down on the torments of Hell, that it was worthwhile to turn away from sin and heresy and embrace the Cross. You will be in my prayers.
 
In regards to contraception, you’ll find that with a little research, your present beliefs are based on gross mis-information. 2 years ago, I shared your view, but with a little science, you’ll find your views not only immoral, but completely scientifically unfounded. Take the following excerpt from Science Daily, a well respected, major online scientific community:

*ScienceDaily (Feb. 21, 2007) — Researchers have found that a method of natural family planning that uses two indicators to identify the fertile phase in a woman’s menstrual cycle is as effective as the contraceptive pill for avoiding unplanned pregnancies if used correctly, according to a report published online in Europe’s leading reproductive medicine journal Human Reproduction today (21 February). *

sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/02/070221065200.htm

Now check this out, by the facts, success rates of birth control methods:

Using NFP (only method approved by the church): 99.6%
Condom: 80%
IUD: 93%
Diaphram Plus Spermicide: 80%
Spermicide: 70%
The Pill: 93% (Proven in the mainstream to cause several forms of cancers and other physical problems)
Injections/Implants: 99% (Proven in the mainstream to cause several forms of cancers and other physical problems)

It goes to show, what God tells us to do is the best thing for us.
 
mattingly23 said:
She is quite phenomenal and I don’t know whether to continue on with her as her background may prove difficult in a life long commitment. We are both in our 30s and she wants to remain celibate until marriage. This is a problem for me, but I have been dealing with it. She also believes in Natural Family Planning and this also bothers me as I think birth control is a necessary measure in today’s times.
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Mattingly, if you are both in your 30s, you both probably have firm feelings about such topics. If you do not think you can live with the sacrifice of accommodating her values on these topics, perhaps it is best for you both to part company. Her views, after all, are those of the Church. You can’t expect her to compromise her religious faith.

Of course, there are many Catholic women who do not follow the teachings of the Church to such a degree. In fact, the majority of US women who identify as Catholic probably fall into these category. So please don’t feel that if you can’t toe the line completely, there is no room for you in the Church. Getting some of it right is better than getting none of it right.

If you want to learn about Opus Dei, may I suggest John Allen’s book on the subject? It has a reputation for being impartial and thorough.
amazon.com/Opus-Dei-Objective-Controversial-Catholic/dp/0385514506

You might be able to find the book in your public library. Or, if not, used copies of the book are available for a low price
 
daisybee said:
I think those questions are a very good start, and it’s admirable that you’re putting a lot of thought into this decision.

I’m sure others here can comment specifically on Opus Dei, but may I suggest perhaps taking a step back and looking at the “total picture” of your experience with this woman.

Perhaps you (or the two of you) could evaluate by using a book like Dr. Greg Popcak’s (Catholic pastoral counselor) The Exceptional Seven Percent: The Nine Secrets of the World’s Happiest Couples, For Better Forever.

Many parishes or Catholic Charities offices have counselors on staff who could facilitate discernment conversations with you, or even those volunteers involved in marriage preparation could probably help although you’re not engaged…sounds like you’re discerning engagement.

Popcak also has a tele-counseling service: exceptionalmarriages.com/services.htm

Maybe bringing in an objective 3rd party could help facilitate conversation between the two of you, and bring insights to each of you individually as well.
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👍
Hi,(thanks!) I would say “lucky man” and if you cannot fight them–join them!!
 
cavaleriesoldaa said:
Now check this out, by the facts, success rates of birth control methods:

Using NFP (only method approved by the church): 99.6%
…
The Pill: 93% (Proven in the mainstream to cause several forms of cancers and other physical problems)
Click to expand...
It appears you’re mixing “perfect use” NFP with “typical use” pill. The statistics I’ve seen on perfect use pill are in the 99% range as well - In fact, I seem to recall that the German study that came up with the 99.6% number for NFP came up with a slightly higher number for the pill. Still, the point of that study was that they can be very close in effectiveness, given diligent use.

I’ve never seen a good “typical use” number for NFP. The ones that usually get bandied about include people who decided during the study to try for pregnancy, or who knew they were in the fertile period, but decided to do it anyway.

To the original poster - it sounds like the two of you may have very different views about sex - certainly before the marriage, but possibly in the marriage too. The most orthodox NFP adherants see it only as a way to space children, and believe that we are still obligated to have very large families, if God allows. Be sure to discuss family size, her feelings on unitive sex, what’s “reasonable” in terms of frequency, what’s acceptable when one person is in the mood, and the other isn’t, etc.

The biggest stresses on most marriages are money, sex, and children. Make sure you’re compatible on all three. Picking a good wife probably has a greater effect on your happiness in life than anything else.

Best of luck!
 
Hi Mattingly

I am a member of Opus Dei and had similar conversations with past boyfriends.

I would agree with other posters- her stance on sex before marriage and contraception are Church teachings, not Opus Dei teachings. I have had boyfriends who have blamed Opus Dei for them but it is simply there in the catechism! And following them will enrich your relationship rather than otherwise.

No member of Opus Dei would ever force their kids to join. A vocation is something that comes from God, not a family business! I think all practicising Catholics (and consequently members of Opus Dei) would be delighted if their children received a special vocation from God- even if it can be difficult to see a child take a path that you didn’t take yourself. I know members of Opus Dei whose children have gone on to be diocesan priests, nuns or lay people simply called to live the faith well through their parishes. Opus Dei teaches that everyone can become a saint in their everyday life, and each person is called to become a saint by God in the way that He chooses 🙂

From my own experience, and those of other Catholic friends, please don’t drag it out. I fell in love with someone who it became clear that I couldn’t marry because they won’t allow me to live my faith (disagreements about how to live chastity, the importance of the sacraments or bringing up children in the faith, for example) . We spent two years trying to find a solution so that we could get married, and it was very painful for us both when we inevitably split up. Don’t try to take your girlfriend away from God.

Good luck!
 
Thank you for your insights thus far. I am aware that my views and hers on premarital sex and birth control are quite different. Also I am aware my views are not compatible with those of the church on these issues either. To be quite honest many of my friends whom are good people, have the same views that I do when it comes to sex and birth control. They have also grown up Catholic. I only bring this up because because I have not come across a girl like this before. In my life to date, I have not been involved with a celibate woman who has such strong religious views (leaving aside Opus Dei).

I would never ask her to pull away from God to be with me. I have known that the compromise will have to be on my end and I’m not sure I can compromise that much. I’ve researched the issue of NFP and well I’m not convinced that is the right way forward for me. This is even making the assumption I can have children, as I am getting older. Life can get complicated sometimes.

As far as my faith goes, I believe I will feel religiously fulfilled by weekly service. In a forum such as this, I can expect people to have strong views and I respect that. I can only relate to that which has been my life experience. In my experience I am walking down an uncharted path. There will be conversations between us about the direction we are heading. Its interesting because she never brings any of it up, she is just so happy to be with me. It is my belief that no other man has stuck around this long before (6 months) and she is afraid to create conflict.

I have been waiting for some sort of sign to show me what I am to do next. That sign has not appeared yet but I feel i will see it soon.

Thank you for your contributions.
 
I have always liked determined women of strong views, so your girlfriend sounds great, although of rather different views to Mrs Hokomai. She also seems able to express her views clearly, and I conclude from your response that she does so in a way which you find acceptable, and which does not hurt or reflect on you. That sounds pretty good to me too. As an unbeliever I have no preference for whether or not you change your views, she changes hers, or you both change, or neither changes. Of those options, though, the last one (neither changes their views) is the least likely in my experience. people do tend to change their mind on these things. The trick here I imagine is thinking about the likely parameters of change. Is it likley either of you will stop believing in God? Is is possible you could accept some of her preferences for what to do, even if you do not agree with the intellectual background? Would you feel good about that? Would she be undermined by thinking you were damned if you persisted in practices you think are OK and she did not? I think counseling to tease out and answer these questions is the answer. Good luck. Unbelievers have some of these issues too, when we reach very different conclusions to our loved ones. It’s just we don’t expect them to have eternal consequences. Although sometimes it feels that way. 🙂
 
daisybee said:
Also, I just noticed you asked about birth control. There is no birth control that is compatible with Church teaching. I think you will find this to be an “issue” with any Catholic woman who takes her faith seriously, not just someone in Opus Dei.

Natural Family Planning, however, is supported by Church teaching: beginningcatholic.com/catholic-natural-family-planning.html

Christopher West’s books and CDs on this subject are excellent.
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You can also look into a new website, www.iusenfp.com
** I only bring this up because because I have not come across a girl like this before. In my life to date, I have not been involved with a celibate woman who has such strong religious views** (leaving aside Opus Dei).
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I would never ask her to pull away from God to be with me. I have known that the compromise will have to be on my end and I’m not sure I can compromise that much. I’ve researched the issue of NFP and well I’m not convinced that is the right way forward for me. This is even making the assumption I can have children, as I am getting older. Life can get complicated sometimes.
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As far as my faith goes, I believe I will feel religiously fulfilled by weekly service. In a forum such as this, I can expect people to have strong views and I respect that. I can only relate to that which has been my life experience. In my experience I am walking down an uncharted path. There will be conversations between us about the direction we are heading. Its interesting because she never brings any of it up, she is just so happy to be with me.
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Now, maybe I’m the only one who sees the LARGE elephant in the room, but Mattingly - sighs has it occurred to you that perhaps the reason why you “have never come across a girl like this,” and seem to be quite taken with her is because she is so devoted to her faith and in particular her life in Opus Dei. It’s precisely her orthodox Catholic faith and how she lives out that faith that you are finding so wonderful, because that faith permeates every part of her life down to her very core.

If you want my advice, the Holy Spirit is calling you home. 😃 Take the hint! 😉
 
Mattingly23,

Thank you for your response. Would you ever consider dedicating a period of prayer, maybe a novena to a favorite saint, to request specific, divine guidance in your decision-making? Prayer before the Blessed Sacrament can be very powerful. I believe God finds it pleasing when we place a specific need before Him and place our trust in His mercy to guide us in the matter. I like the idea of counseling, too, as you can probably tell from my previous posts, but I think the Divine Counselor is the best! 😉

One of my favorite quotes from Blessed John Henry Newman:
They who pray for His saving help to change their likings and dislikings, their tastes, their views, their wills, their hearts, do not all at once gain what they seek… they do not perceive that they gain it, but if they continually day by day come to Him–humbly, in faith–determined to go on seeking, honoring, serving Him (not seeking a sign)–such men will gain–whether they see light, feel comfort, or discern growth. They will in the end find themselves saved wondrously. “They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength…”
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Maybe the “sign” you seek will be a slightly different outlook and/or new insights after a period of prayer…
 
I find this rather depressing. You’re both in your 30s. A woman’s fertility starts declining in her late 20s and dips significantly past 35. Ditto for men. There are no promises in life, but statistically, you’re not super-likely to end up with an overwhelming number of kids even if you practice no birth control. So is this really the issue? You’re considering ending a relationship with a “phenomenal” woman because you might, though probably won’t, end up having more children then you’re comfortable with?
 
It is quite possible for someone to look like a “good person” to one’s friends and family but still be on the broad and well-traveled path to Hell.
 
cavaleriesoldaa said:
The Pill: 93% (Proven in the mainstream to cause several forms of cancers and other physical problems)
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Not to mention the hormonal changes cause women to be attracted to effeminate men with feminine facial features. ICK! Thanks, no.
 
Chesterton18 said:
I find this rather depressing. You’re both in your 30s. A woman’s fertility starts declining in her late 20s and dips significantly past 35. Ditto for men. There are no promises in life, but statistically, you’re not super-likely to end up with an overwhelming number of kids even if you practice no birth control. So is this really the issue? You’re considering ending a relationship with a “phenomenal” woman because you might, though probably won’t, end up having more children then you’re comfortable with?
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There are women in my parish who married past their 30s, are reaching 50 and have 9+ children. Anything is possible.
 
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