My God, My God why hast though forsaken me

[Prince_Hal]

I have posted on this before and am fairly content with the answer given by another forum member regarding Psalm 22. Christ here on the Cross is quoting Psalm 22 where it says clearly in verse 24:

“…neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard”.

Is there any suggestion that God the Father “forsook” the Son at this moment on the Cross ? Any thoughts that might suggest this.

If “forsaken” means “turned over” (but not turned his face away), then I can accept this perhaps - but even then this would seem to be the Son questioning the Father as to why he was suffering. The last moments of Christ’s life questioning the Father !! Obviously not.

So in anyway could the Father hath turned his face from the Son.

Many thanks for your help.

God bless,

Hal.

 

[Tedster]

I seem to remember Dr. Scott Hahn stating that Jesus said this primarily to fulfill the prophets words in Psalm 22 which describes the Crucifixion.

 

[NotWorthy]

It’s no coincidence that Jesus quotes from Psalm 22 (My God, My God, why have You abandoned me) and Psalm 31 ("Into your hands I commend my Spirit).

Both of these Psalms end in praise of Yahweh. Jesus is doing this to teach us about Faith even in persecution.

You’ll see that St. Stephen learned the lessons from the Cross during his persecution. He quoted Jesus’ words on the Cross (Forgive them for they know not what they do) and from Daniel (I see the Son of Man coming in a Cloud of Glory…).

There is no abandonment on the Cross - only Glory!!!

 

[Prince_Hal]

So does everything hang on the word “forsaken”. When looked at in the light of Psalm 22, the word means given over to suffering, but not that God the Father turned his face away. This is really important to me because of my mormon background and the following movie clip from one of the mormon apostles:

youtube.com/watch?v=EpFhS0dAduc

How can I answer them ?

God bless,

Hal.

 

[Nita]

So does everything hang on the word “forsaken”. When looked at in the light of Psalm 22, the word means given over to suffering, but not that God the Father turned his face away. This is really important to me because of my mormon background and the following movie clip from one of the mormon apostles:

youtube.com/watch?v=EpFhS0dAduc

How can I answer them ?

God bless,

Hal.

Jesus was never abandoned by God the Father. There is only one Person in Jesus - the Second Person of the Trinity. Jesus did not cease to be a “person” on the cross. And where/when one Person of the Trinity is present, so are the other Two, for God is one. God was present in the crucifixion as Jesus’ words in Mk 10:27 indicate (after the disciples ask Him about being saved):
“With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.”

I don’t know if this argument will carry much weight with a Mormon tho, since they do not believe Jesus was God and they do not believe in the Trinity.

 

[Nita]

Regarding Jesus’ use of the opening lines of Psalm 22, several thoughts occur to me.

1. As well as using it as a personal prayer, ** it would serve as a sign to all - that what was happening to Him was a fulfillment of that Psalm.** The Psalm was written about Him. (Altho David is the author, it does not describe anything that happened to him.)
2. That what His human flesh and soul/mind/emotions were experiencing may have seemed like an abandonment by God - even tho God was still present. God may have withdrawn from the human nature of Jesus any sensations of His presence.
   (If you read the lives of mystic saints, some of them have experienced something similar.)
   Psalm 30:7-8 (RSV) comes to mind regarding this point:

By thy favor O LORD,
thou hadst established me as a strong mountain;
thou didst hide thy face,
I was dismayed.
To thee O LORD, I cried;
and to the LORD I made supplication;

In the NAB it is Ps 30:8-9 ("…but when you hid your face I was terrified. To you, O Lord, I cried out;…"
In the DR it is Ps 29:8-9 (…“Thou turnedst away thy face from me and I became troubled. …”)

 

[Prince_Hal]

Regarding Jesus’ use of the opening lines of Psalm 22, several thoughts occur to me.

1. As well as using it as a personal prayer, ** it would serve as a sign to all - that what was happening to Him was a fulfillment of that Psalm.** The Psalm was written about Him. (Altho David is the author, it does not describe anything that happened to him.)
2. That what His human flesh and soul/mind/emotions were experiencing may have seemed like an abandonment by God - even tho God was still present. God may have withdrawn from the human nature of Jesus any sensations of His presence.
   (If you read the lives of mystic saints, some of them have experienced something similar.)
   Psalm 30:7-8 (RSV) comes to mind regarding this point:

By thy favor O LORD,
thou hadst established me as a strong mountain;
thou didst hide thy face,
I was dismayed.
To thee O LORD, I cried;
and to the LORD I made supplication;

In the NAB it is Ps 30:8-9 ("…but when you hid your face I was terrified. To you, O Lord, I cried out;…"
In the DR it is Ps 29:8-9 (…"Thou turnedst away thy face from me and I became troubled. …")

Thank you so much everyone. Nita, what you say is very interesting. But this would just that God did withdraw or hide his face from the human nature of Christ. But why would he do this ? Is this the “dark night of the soul” ? I see the distinction. Jesus for fully man and fully God. God could not hide his face from God, but he could man. But to what purpose.

Nita, or anyone else, if you have any thoughts on this, please post. I am researching this, but no answers.

God bless you,

Hal.

 

[Nita]

Thank you so much everyone. Nita, what you say is very interesting. But this would just that God did withdraw or hide his face from the human nature of Christ. But why would he do this ? Is this the “dark night of the soul” ? I see the distinction. Jesus for fully man and fully God. God could not hide his face from God, but he could man. But to what purpose.

Nita, or anyone else, if you have any thoughts on this, please post. I am researching this, but no answers.

God bless you,

Hal.

I don’t know for sure.
My own speculation:
In sinning, Adam chose to separate Himself from God. Altho Jesus Himself was sinless, He “bore our sins”. Be sure to keep clear the difference between “bearing” and “committing”! Jesus does not commit our sins, but He bore them - submitted Himself to them. (Eg. Jesus bore ridicule, mockery, pain maliciously inflicted… But He Himself never did those things.)
He also took upon Himself the expiation and atonement necessary to redeem us from those sins (the guilt of those sins). Sin separates us from God. Jesus being God could never be separated from Himself. (“For man it is impossible, but all things are posssible for God”) But He may have allowed His human nature to experience the “dark night of the soul”.

Yes, it would be similar to the dark night of the soul - where the soul has no sense of God’s presence. Doubts assail. It is only a strong, willed, faith that upholds one during those times.