My God, My God! Why have you forsaken me?

[Homerun40968]

Question One: This verse doesn’t sound like something Jesus would say. How is it interpreted?

Question Two: Likewise, a few months ago, we sang a verse at Mass like this: “My God, My God. Why have you abandoned me?” - I have heard that this is in honor of the miracle called “Black Night of the Soul” in which God strips the feeling of all presence to his faithful, and then the person is required to retain faith. And thus, they always know that God is there, even if it does not feel like it. Am I right?

 

[bilop]

Question One: This verse doesn’t sound like something Jesus would say. How is it interpreted?

Question Two: Likewise, a few months ago, we sang a verse at Mass like this: “My God, My God. Why have you abandoned me?” - I have heard that this is in honor of the miracle called “Black Night of the Soul” in which God strips the feeling of all presence to his faithful, and then the person is required to retain faith. And thus, they always know that God is there, even if it does not feel like it. Am I right?

Question 1

He is quoting a Psalm, 21, that refers to faith in God and the salvations of the gentiles.

drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=21&ch=21&l=2&f=s#x

His audience would have known this.

God Bless

 

[Trishie]

Jesus as fully divine and fully human was sharing in the human experience of abandonment as He hung dying in agony. He quoted the psalm…as we do in some way or other during the most awful, devastating experience of our lives. He followed it with an act, words from his spirit, of complete faith and submission to the Father.
“Father into Your hands I commend my Spirit.”

This is a powerful witness to us, and a great consolation. Remember that St Paul says that Jesus suffered in all things that we do, except sin. In our difficulties and in our ‘dark nights’, because Jesus quoted these words that expressed His own ‘dark’ night’ (which isn’t called that for nothing!), we know we have a God who understands our agony and or aloneness.

 

[Holly3278]

Here is what my E-Sword’s Catholic commentary says about it:

34 gives the Aramaic translation of the opening words of Ps 21 (22). This Psalm is the prayer of the just man who, though surrounded by enemies and in deep distress, looks confidently to God for deliverance. The words ‘My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?’ are a cry of distress wrung from the just man by the taunts and sufferings which God allows his enemies to inflict on him. There is no note of despair in that cry: confidence in God remains unshaken; cf.Psa_21:10, Psa_21:25. Christian tradition recognizes the Messianic sense of the Psalm, which finds complete fulfilment only in Christ: ‘it contains the whole Passion of Christ’ ( Tertullian, Adv. Marcion. 3, 19). Christ, the Just One par excellence, made the cry of the Psalmist his own on the Cross with far more perfect sentiments of submission and confidence in God. The desolation felt in the human soul of Christ is given expression in the Psalmist’s words. But there is no question of despair or of abandonment of the humanity by the divinity. Christ was abandoned by God only in the sense that God did not spare him the sufferings of the Passion and Crucifixion, but allowed his enemies to work their will on him.

I hope that helps!

 

[jcrichton]

Jesus as fully divine and fully human was sharing in the human experience of abandonment as He hung dying in agony. He quoted the psalm…as we do in some way or other during the most awful, devastating experience of our lives. He followed it with an act, words from his spirit, of complete faith and submission to the Father.
“Father into Your hands I commend my Spirit.”

This is a powerful witness to us, and a great consolation. Remember that St Paul says that Jesus suffered in all things that we do, except sin. In our difficulties and in our ‘dark nights’, because Jesus quoted these words that expressed His own ‘dark’ night’ (which isn’t called that for nothing!), we know we have a God who understands our agony and or aloneness.

Hi, Trishie!

…though it is true that Jesus was fully human and fully Divine… I think that too many of us continue to view Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God, as having the same countenence as the average man. It seems that if Jesus would not have doubts or not demonstrate the same weakness as most of us do when faced with physical and emotional stress then He cannot be our true representative…

That is not the case… Jesus did not come in the likeness of man so that He may become as weak as most of us; He came in the likeness of man so that we may be elevated (made righteous) through Him.

If we look at the title given to Him by John (the Lamb of God) we can better understand that Jesus’ suffering and turmoil was farther from the physical pain that He would suffer at the hands of man.

We can view several passages from the Holy Scriptures which will reveal Jesus true suffering and turmoil:

1. Jesus states unequivocally that He is never alone (St. John 16:32)
2. Jesus acknowledges that He came to suffer and die (St. Matthew 26:39-54)
3. Though at other times Jesus had resisted (by not allowing His opponents apprehend or kill Him and by not allowing His followers to name Him their King), when the time had arrived Jesus simply acquiesced (St. Matthew 26:55-57; St. John 18:1-9)
4. Just before He was to be Crucified Jesus was offered a mixture which was some sort of concoction to dull the nerves so that the horror of the crucifixion would be lessen… He refused it–Jesus had to endure all of the pain! (St. Matthew 27:34; St. Mark 15:23)
5. When Jesus exclaims, “Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani?” He is about to die, taking onto Himself the sins of the world… this is the very first time that He and the Father will be separated–though it may well have been for a period no longer than a zillionth of a zillionth of a nanosecond, Jesus had to Stand alone… away from the Oness of God… can you imagine a greater turmoil?
6. Jesus knew that even then not all would believe… not even when He would come back from the dead! (St. Luke 16:23-31)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Todd_Easton]

1. When Jesus exclaims, “Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani?” He is about to die, taking onto Himself the sins of the world… this is the very first time that He and the Father will be separated–though it may well have been for a period no longer than a zillionth of a zillionth of a nanosecond, Jesus had to Stand alone… away from the Oness of God… can you imagine a greater turmoil?

Perhaps I am missing something but your remarks don’t sound correct to me…

The Son and the Father are inseparable. The unity of the Trinity cannot be broken. There is one God. If the Son and the Father separated for even “a zilliionth of a zillionth of a nanosecond,” then for that brief moment there were two Gods but there is only one God.

Similarly, the human nature of Jesus and his divine nature are inseparable. The unity of the person of Jesus cannot be broken. There is one person, Jesus, the Son of God. If the human nature and the divine nature of Jesus were separated for even “a zillionth of a zillionth of a nanosecond,” then for that brief moment there were two persons but there is only one person.

I think another explanation is necessary.

 

[jcrichton]

Perhaps I am missing something but your remarks don’t sound correct to me…

The Son and the Father are inseparable. The unity of the Trinity cannot be broken. There is one God. If the Son and the Father separated for even “a zilliionth of a zillionth of a nanosecond,” then for that brief moment there were two Gods but there is only one God.

Similarly, the human nature of Jesus and his divine nature are inseparable. The unity of the person of Jesus cannot be broken. There is one person, Jesus, the Son of God. If the human nature and the divine nature of Jesus were separated for even “a zillionth of a zillionth of a nanosecond,” then for that brief moment there were two persons but there is only one person.

I think another explanation is necessary.

Hi, Todd Easton!

I can only offer what I can reason from the Holy Scriptures… as St. Paul said, we now only know Him partially…

You are correct in God being only One. You are also correct in Christ Jesus having a human nature and a Divine nature…

Yet, there are things that we do not truly understand… things that are revealed to us but that the Holy Spirit has not made so abundantly (all inclusive knowledge) clear…

Here’s an example… Yahweh God, the Father, is the Only God; yet, Jesus Christ, both the Messiah and the Lamb of God, is the Only God; but, the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, is the Only God… understanding this is difficult, but it is Scriptural. We know that God is Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent… so where the Father is so is the Son and so is the Holy Spirit… yet, Jesus did not tells us that the Father or that the Son or that the Holy Spirit will dwell (live) in His disciples but that if we Loved Him (Jesus) He would Love us and the Father would Love us… as a result of this relationship He would send the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, who would dwell among us and in us… not only that but He Himself and the Father would also dwell in us! (St. John 14:17, 21, 23) Since there’s but One God it seems redundant that Jesus would place such an interest in announcing that the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit will abide/dwell/live in each Believer.

So why would Jesus cry out, “Eli, Eli, lamma sabacthani?” Could it be as simple as the human nature not knowing the purpose of the Crucifixion? Could it be that Jesus’ humanity was showing over and above His Divinity or that Jesus did not have the “right stuff?” Was Jesus simply quoting a Psalm for the benefit of the crowd, attempting some final enigmatic preaching from the Cross?

I cannot accept any of the above queries as the reason for Jesus’ chosen expression. And while I agree that your reasoning is sound, I propose to you that there was a time when Jesus had to be alone–whether just the human nature or both the human and Divine natures.

Here’s why: Scriptures tells us that Jesus, the Lamb of God, had to take onto Himself the frailty of the world, and that for the Salvation of many He had to endure death by Crucifixion. If Jesus did not die (at least the human nature) then His Sacrifice would have been only symbolic; yet, every single passage of the Holy Scriptures that speaks of the Sacrificial Death of the Lamb of God claims that it is an actual death.

Since God is Spirit and cannot die… the Body made for the Word has to die as He takes the place of humanity on the Cross. How long is that particular period of death… a few days, a few hours, a few minutes, nanoseconds, a fraction of a fraction of a nanosecond?

I do not think that the amount of time truly matters… I think that what matters is that Jesus did give His Life up for our Salvation… yet, knowing that He freely was freely giving His Life up and that He had the Power to take up again, His anguish, His torment, His turmoil was not of the physical loss but of that Spiritual connection which would be severed, even if only for a zillionth of a zillionth of a nanosecond…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[patrick457]

Question One: This verse doesn’t sound like something Jesus would say. How is it interpreted?

The best thing to do is read the whole Psalm:

My God, my God, why are you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from helping me, and from the words of my cry?

My God, I cry by day, and you give no answer; and in the night, and have no rest;
But You are holy, O You who inhabit the praises of Israel.

Our fathers had faith in You: they had faith and You delivered them.
They cried to You and were delivered: they put their faith in You and were not put to shame.

But I am a worm, not a man; a reproach of men, and despised by the people.
All of those who see me laugh me to scorn: pushing out their lips and wagging their heads, they say:
“He hoped in the LORD, let Him deliver him; Let Him rescue him, since He delights in him!”

But You brought me out of the womb; You gave me faith even when I was at my mother’s breasts.
I was thrown on You from the womb; from my mother’s womb You are my God.
Do not be far from me, for trouble is near; there is no one to give help.

Many bulls have surrounded me, strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me;
They open their mouths wide against me like a ravening and a roaring lion.
Like water I have been poured out, all my bones are out of joint.
My heart is like wax melting in the midst of my bowels.
My strength is dried up like a potsherd; my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; and You have brought me into the dust of death.

For dogs have compassed me: an assembly of the evildoers have enclosed me;
They have pierced my hands and my feet; I can count all my bones. They look and stare upon me.
They divide my garments among themselves; for my clothing they cast lots.
Do not be far from me, O LORD; O my Strength, come quickly to my help!

Deliver, O God, my soul from the sword: my only one from the paw of a dog.
Save me from the lion’s mouth; Yes, from the horns of the wild oxen you have answered me!

I will declare Your name to my brethren; in the midst of the assembly will I praise You.
All of you who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, glorify him!
Stand in awe of him, all you descendants of Israel!

For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted. Neither has He hid His face from him; but He has given an answer to his cry.

My praise will be of You in the great assembly: I will pay my vows in the sight of them that fear Him.
The poor shall eat and be satisfied; and those who seek the LORD will praise Him; your heart shall live forever.

All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD, and all the families of the nations will give You worship.

For the kingdom is the LORD’s. He is the Ruler over the nations. All the fat ones of the earth shall eat and worship;
All those go down to the dust shall fall before Him; even he who can’t keep his soul alive.

A seed shall serve Him; the future generation shall be told about the LORD. They shall come and declare his righteousness to a people of the future, For He has done it!

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Holly and Patrick have it right. Jesus is quoting Psalm 22.

Jesus was not “abandoned” by God in any spiritual sense (eg like a damned soul in hell is), that is blasphemous and an error which many Protestants fall for. Reading the whole Psalm the man speaking was talking about not having God rescue him from his human attackers, this is what happened to Jesus when the Father did not rescue Jesus (thought He could have).
Mat 26 53Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures [eg Ps 22] be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?

 

[Static]

Does the same go for Lk 23:46 quoting Ps 31 ?

May God Bless, Static ( 1 Tim 1:15 )