My husband asked me for a divorce today

[vocatio]

Thank you everyone. To answer a few questions:

Have the two of you ever taken an NFP class together?

Yes. He actually understands it quite well. For awhile he even tinkered around with an idea he had for a new kind of NFP thermometer. He is well versed on the subject.

Did your husband give you an ultimatum? Either have sex or he’s going to divorce you?

Yes. Not in those exact words though. He wants a vasectomy. I, in good conscience, can not give my approval. But if he gets one, I take heart in the fact that IF God wants us to have another child, He could allow that to happen even with a vasectomy. He is concerned that if he has one, I will still have issues with having sex. I am not sure how I will feel about it.

Do you have life and death health issues, that prevent you from having another child? Or is it that there might be some risk? Is your husband against having more children? Besides your lengthy abstinence are there other issues?

Not life and death issues. But serious problems that would absolutey arise for me during a pregnancy. And yes, he is against having more children. Financially things are very tight. I am currently looking for a part-time job to help make ends meet…after being a stay-home-mom for the past 16 years.

He does not want to go to a Catholic counselor. He thinks they will certainly side with me on the issue.

We have both looked into Retrovaille. It sounds like the format is very similar to Marriage Encounter. We went on an ME in 1997, and neither one of us really liked it. So I don’t know how willing he will be to go Retrovaille.

Lynne Marie…thank you for sharing that wisdom with me, and thank you everyone for the prayers.

I’m going to be harsh here so I deeply apologize as I am sticking my nose into someone’s business I have bo business doing.

Let the idiot go get a vascectomy and confess it. No doubt your conscience will bother you. My wife got a tubiligation that I did not want her to get. You have 3 children that need a mother and a father. If the knucklehead wants sex then give it too him. But you don’t have to materially participate in his weakness in that way. But, you should be loving your husband as appropriate in the marriage bond. Scripture tells you that your body is his and his is yours. One way or the other a man is going to break if you don’t submit to him or visa versa. ’

It broke my heart when she got the tubiligation but I stayed with her… I was not a practicing Catholic but rather a practicing fundamental evangelical Christian. That was the last time I had a major epiphany of why the Catholic Church taught this stuff. However, for your children’s sake, your husband’s sak and your sake… do what you must do to keep the marriage in tact. It’ll be an obvious mistake later on if he does choose sterilization. But once it’s done he can confess it provided he is truly sorry and receive absolution. Once it’s done it’s done. Invensible Ignorance may be at play or really a man who really wants his wife that won’t give it up for him. That hurts just as much as not having babies. If sex is what you’re holding out on then you have an obligation to your husband and your children and your oath in my opinion to submit to the marital act. You’d be better off talking to a non-Catholic counselor than none at all. Do it for your children’s sake. Trust me. I grew up in a divoced home… I know the pains of it.

it sounds to me that he is using manipulative tactics to get you to see that he wants sex with his wife that won’t give it to him. He’s a saint for waiting this long.

 

[ChristinaM]

But if I were married and in a similar situation, as described by OP, then I, too, would probably ask for a divorce.

I side completely with your husband in this one.

He’s a saint for waiting this long.

Wow…so this is all this poor woman’s fault?

So it’s okay that this man thinks his marriage is worthless because he isn’t getting sex? Even though his wife’s health would be at risk if they had another child?

This attitude just saddens me. Marriage is a promise “in sickness and in health, for better or for worse, as long as we both shall live.” Not “as long as we can have sex…if that stops, then I’m out the door.” Yes, sex is an important part of marriage. But it isn’t everything. If it is then they need some real help.

This response makes me very, very sad. :nope:

I agree with the poster who said that this is less about sex than about power and control. Divorce seems like a “nuclear option” and I hope he can be persuaded to go to counseling. Faustina Marie, I will remember you in my prayers at Mass tomorrow.

 

[Augustine]

FYI, if he does make the mistake of maiming himself, vasectomy is rather easily reversible.

You’re in my prayers.

 

[wanner47]

Some of you might not like this reply, but I’m trying to weigh in with some sense. OP, if you get the divorce, you will risk harming your kids. Honestly, can’t you see why he’s unhappy? Another kid will not work, and he is using his common sense to prevent it. Let him get the vasectomy, and you can get a part time job. It sounds like you need to get out of the house a bit. NFP does not work as well as other methods. Another kid will drive you up the wall, harm you financially, and almost for sure end your marriage. I side completely with your husband in this one.

You don’t know that. Another kid could and would be blessing, even if it would make things more difficult financially.

I don’t side with her husband. He’s being a complete jerk. It’s understandable that he doesn’t want to live as brother and sister anymore; that must be frustrating. But rather try and work out the problems – rather than go back to using NFP, or even going out and getting a vasectomy himself, he threatens divorce. That’s a control tactic and has nothing to do with the sex or lack thereof. He doesn’t want to OP to live her faith, and that’s a problem.

OP, again, I highly suggest counseling. If he won’t go, go yourself so you can learn how to better deal with your husband’s manipulative tactics.

 

[rolltidefan]

I’m going to be harsh here so I deeply apologize as I am sticking my nose into someone’s business I have bo business doing.

Let the** idiot **go get a vascectomy and confess it. No doubt your conscience will bother you. My wife got a tubiligation that I did not want her to get. You have 3 children that need a mother and a father. If the **knucklehead **wants sex then give it too him. But you don’t have to materially participate in his weakness in that way. But, you should be loving your husband as appropriate in the marriage bond. Scripture tells you that your body is his and his is yours. One way or the other a man is going to break if you don’t submit to him or visa versa. ’

It broke my heart when she got the tubiligation but I stayed with her… I was not a practicing Catholic but rather a practicing fundamental evangelical Christian. That was the last time I had a major epiphany of why the Catholic Church taught this stuff. However, for your children’s sake, your husband’s sak and your sake… do what you must do to keep the marriage in tact. It’ll be an obvious mistake later on if he does choose sterilization. But once it’s done he can confess it provided he is truly sorry and receive absolution. Once it’s done it’s done. Invensible Ignorance may be at play or really a man who really wants his wife that won’t give it up for him. That hurts just as much as not having babies. If sex is what you’re holding out on then you have an obligation to your husband and your children and your oath in my opinion to submit to the marital act. You’d be better off talking to a non-Catholic counselor than none at all. Do it for your children’s sake. Trust me. I grew up in a divoced home… I know the pains of it.

it sounds to me that he is using manipulative tactics to get you to see that he wants sex with his wife that won’t give it to him. He’s a saint for waiting this long.

Just wondering, but with your wife having a tubal ligation, do you consider her an idiot and knucklehead as you say?? If so and you have actually used these words with her, I am surprised that you are not the one living single. I had a tubal several years ago and I consider it a blessing!!! THANK GOD! But I can tell you now, if my Catholic husband used those two words with me, he better be learning to sleep with the dogs, because that is where he would be!

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Sadly, the irony of these situations is that often the husband who threatens to leave the family over such issues (which is emotional blackmail of the most horrible kind) often finds someone else and… ironically, has a baby with a new wife.

Seen it happen too many times.

In this case, you are having to choose the lesser of two evils…

a maimed man whose vasectomized body may turn on him someday, or divorce. Being a single mom, I have to say it multiplies the problems exponentially when you are trying to raise your children in a divorce situation.

Do what you can to keep the marriage together for his soul, your soul and your children’s souls.

Seek a priest’s counsel on this. If he chooses self mutilation, you cannot stop him. If he is a good husband and a loving father, would you rather he and his mutilated self be in your house, or elsewhere with other people?

I’m sorry for your pain. I know what it feels like to have a husband threaten divorce. The question for you… is this just an excuse, or is he just looking for a handy reason to leave the marriage, and even if he gets his way on this will there be something else down the road that he uses as a new excuse?

You would always have the option, even if he has the surgery, of maintaining fertility awareness and using periodic abstinence for your own spiritual benefit. Periodic abstinence is not the same as total abstinence.

Ask your husband if he would be willing to take that route.

 

[vocatio]

Just wondering, but with your wife having a tubal ligation, do you consider her an idiot and knucklehead as you say?? If so and you have actually used these words with her, I am surprised that you are not the one living single. I had a tubal several years ago and I consider it a blessing!!! THANK GOD! But I can tell you now, if my Catholic husband used those two words with me, he better be learning to sleep with the dogs, because that is where he would be!

No I never talk to my wife that way. And you are right, if I did I might ought to be the one that is single. But she comes from a Protestant faith that do not accept divorce under any terms except infidelity. But being Protestant she did not have the same conscience I did even though I thought I was Protestant. You not being Catholic might not understand that or even care. Those terms I use come from my military knuckleheaded background. I’m the first one to call myself a knucklehead. What I mean is someone who is bend. I feel ashamed that I am attracted to my wife so much that I feel the need to be with her. Why, because I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t think she really wants me anymore but tolerates me because “that is just what men are like” - her words exactly yesterday morning. If you are not Catholic then you really don’t need to be commenting here.

If anything I’ve said that if you love the guy so much, and she should, then letting him do something like that is a sin but it is his sin. Stay together for the children and themselves. This is a situation where a man is being denied sexual relations with his wife because she is afraid and he is afraid. My point…it’s not the end of the world if either one gets sterylized. BUT!!! it is a sin and they can get past it. You’ll never quite understand this if you don’t live it. It’s about being prolife…open to life.

I know my wife feels relieved that she had the procedure. But I know why she did it…fear. Long story. I’m saying that even in a sinful act like sterylization couples can get past the pain of it. I have, but I still struggle with it and since my wife is suffering from emotional and mental disorders as a result of her background it affected her decisions that led up to sterylization…something I never saw coming and something I’ve tried to avoid all of our 19 years of marriage. I’m a Catholic and am expressing my feelings to show how a man might react… If my wife abandoned me sexually, I’d be hurt too, but I would try my best to stay in the race and probably survive since I’ve worked on chastity my entire life and as a former seminarian. You may not like the words “knucklehead”, but I think Fr. Corapi would use them just the same and does. It’s a military thing I guess and since he was a Navy Seal folks like that would understand where I come from. Sorry I’ve offended you.

 

[vocatio]

Sadly, the irony of these situations is that often the husband who threatens to leave the family over such issues (which is emotional blackmail of the most horrible kind) often finds someone else and… ironically, has a baby with a new wife.

SO true… This is why I’m embarrassed sometimes to be a man. Men make me look like a fool…even though I do a good job at it myself. However, I always treat others with the dignity that every person deserves and therefore find the strength to move on when things don’t go “my way”. Men are fools. I certainly understand that a woman with a health issue wants to survive…live. She has that right. But it is true that if a man doesn’t get it from home and can’t control himself if he gets cut off then he’s likely to cheat and excuse his misbehavior. I had that same knuckleheads in my family. And I believe that the man in this situation is being a knucklehead, thinking with the wrong …brain.??? Sorry. I hate the sin of infedelity with a passion. But don’t we all do it in small ways…thoughts, temptations.

You situation is very difficult and somehow somewhere mortal sin will most likely be commited by either him, or you or both of you because of the childish behavior, yet understandable frustration. You’re right. This is emotional blackmail.

 

[TLM08]

And I haven’t a clue what to do. Please pray for my family.

We were married in the Church 17 years ago. We have 3 children, 16, 11 and 8. When we got married, we weren’t very devout Catholics. We went to Mass sporadically, used birth control, etc. Cafeteria Catholics as they say. I have been a stay-at-home-Mom for most of the years of our marriage.

About 6 years into our marriage I felt the Lord calling me more fully into the Church. At that time returned to the sacraments (confession for the first time in 17 years!) I quit taking birth control pills,because I learned they could act as an abortifacient. My husband approved, and while not thrilled with the concept, was willing to try NFP.

Using NFP has been a battle between us for the past 11 years, and we ended up using it sporadically. The past couple years we have just abstained. Neither of us is happy with this, but we cannot come to a resolution about birth control. And 11 years is just too long to argue about it any more. I have health concerns, some serious over the past few years, and a pregnancy would not be a good thing right now.

My husband did not follow me back “full force” to the Church. He attends Mass with us on Sunday. I know it is for the kids sake, and I am grateful for that. We also send our children to Catholic school.

Today he asked me for a divorce. He doesn’t want to live as “brother and sister” anymore. And NFP is no longer an option as far as he is concerned.

I have no idea what to do at this point. I’ve spent the day reading threads here, and looking at suggested websites and documents, but I don’t have an answer to my situation.

I do not want a divorce. I love my husband. I do not want to put my children through this. I just do not know what to do or say at this point.

Prayers and advice appreciated.

Keep your family together. If birth control (non-abortificient) have to be a part of that, then so be it. Your children and family must take priority. As far as the sinful aspect, I don’t see where you are in full possession of “full consent”. For the life of me, I never understood the church’s unbending restriction on this for married people that have a number of children already. Keep your family together, if you have to bend the rules a bit to give your children an intact home I think God will understand. You need to talk with a couple of different priests about this!

 

[rolltidefan]

No I never talk to my wife that way. And you are right, if I did I might ought to be the one that is single. But she comes from a Protestant faith that do not accept divorce under any terms except infidelity. But being Protestant she did not have the same conscience I did even though I thought I was Protestant. You not being Catholic might not understand that or even care. Those terms I use come from my military knuckleheaded background. I’m the first one to call myself a knucklehead. What I mean is someone who is bend. I feel ashamed that I am attracted to my wife so much that I feel the need to be with her. Why, because I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t think she really wants me anymore but tolerates me because “that is just what men are like” - her words exactly yesterday morning. If you are not Catholic then you really don’t need to be commenting here.

If anything I’ve said that if you love the guy so much, and she should, then letting him do something like that is a sin but it is his sin. Stay together for the children and themselves. This is a situation where a man is being denied sexual relations with his wife because she is afraid and he is afraid. My point…it’s not the end of the world if either one gets sterylized. BUT!!! it is a sin and they can get past it. You’ll never quite understand this if you don’t live it. It’s about being prolife…open to life.

I know my wife feels relieved that she had the procedure. But I know why she did it…fear. Long story. I’m saying that even in a sinful act like sterylization couples can get past the pain of it. I have, but I still struggle with it and since my wife is suffering from emotional and mental disorders as a result of her background it affected her decisions that led up to sterylization…something I never saw coming and something I’ve tried to avoid all of our 19 years of marriage. I’m a Catholic and am expressing my feelings to show how a man might react… If my wife abandoned me sexually, I’d be hurt too, but I would try my best to stay in the race and probably survive since I’ve worked on chastity my entire life and as a former seminarian. You may not like the words “knucklehead”, but I think Fr. Corapi would use them just the same and does. It’s a military thing I guess and since he was a Navy Seal folks like that would understand where I come from. Sorry I’ve offended you.

No offense taken. I was just wondering if you used those words with your wife. That is all I was wanting to know. No, I am not Catholic, but I feel I have as much right to throw my 2 cents in on these boards, especially since we as Protestants get brought up quite a bit. Even if no protestants ever came to this board, we would still be talked about, because I don’t think there is much talking that goes on otherwise. I also come from a protestant background that abuse and infidelity are reasons for divorce. However, if someone has divorced for other reasons, we accept them in, as God forgives when you ask and we as people of the Church cannot determine that. Also my brother was in the military, he as in the Army, I don’t remember him ever using knucklehead, but it defintely sounds military. However, I don’t like words like idiot, stupid and hate…you know negtive words. My kids will even say I HATE broccoli and I say NO you don’t HATE anything, you may dislike them, but hate is strong word that needs to be removed. Anyway, I just don’t do words like that and especially wouldn’t to people that I didn’t actually personally know. Well, I learned alot from you. Hope God continues to bless you and your family. BTW, Thanks for serving our country. I have a great respect for our military.

 

[vocatio]

I’m proud to have served our country as well. My drill instructor was a very strong Christian man that never used cuss words. He was a very good man I could see. He was Protestant and used to laugh and call us “knuckleheads”. It was the worst it got in words, but he made us so tired with pushups. I had an immense amount of respect for him and really have fond memories recalling those words “knuckleheads” followed by a silly chuckle. The other NCO I loved so much was our Command Sergeant Major/E-9. He was a preacher as well and used to say “there ain’t no right way to do wrong”. Both men are African American and really good roll models for all of us to follow. My mom was anti-Catholic and my dad was sort of a fundamentalist Catholic…or anti-non-Catholic or anti-Protestant. It took me years to clear my head of all that conflicting non-sense. I apologize if my words offend you. I also don’t allow strong words like “hate” to be used so freely. We lecture our children when they say things like that. Unfortunately our culture or coloquial language leads us to sort of overlook these words. You are a good parent for correcting your children for such things.

Peace. Read Ignatius of Antioch, earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-smyrnaeans-hoole.html and the Didache. These two documents alone caused me to reevaluate my former fundamentalist evangelical beleifs. Annulments are a problem to me though I accept them. My father and mother’s marriage was issued a declaration of nulility. Made me feel like a bastard child.

 

[Cider]

You’ve been married for 17 years, so you must be at least in your mid to late 30’s and so entering the time of significantly reduced natural fertility. I think your husband is at the end of his rope living as brother and sister and that is why the vasectomy or divorce ultimatum came up. My guess is that he still loves you and wants to find a solution, otherwise he would have just packed and left without bothering with the ultimatum. You guys have probably discussed the subject so much over the years that he feels it’s time for action and not talking.

But I do think that if you can both agree to talk to someone together you could find a solution. That might mean he gets a vasectomy against your wishes and you stay married and agree to marital relations. It might be that if you go to the couple to couple league and get good NFP training you will feel more safe using it and having marital relations with him with the understanding that your fertility is on the decline and it won’t be forever. He might be able to get by for the few years left using NFP if he gets his needs met also.

Praying you find a solution that satisfies everyone involved.

 

[Faustina_Marie]

**

UPDATE!**

Everyone…thank you! For the prayers, wisdom, advice, and opinions. Your prayers are working and we are going to be ok. I feel like I can breathe again. We talked out many, many things that have just built up over the years. Things we’ve discussed before (too many times) but never came to any agreement on, so they just kept building up. Finally the dam had to break.

In prayer on Thursday, the Lord told me I needed humility, and to step back and really look at things again. He told me that I am not always right. I cannot tell you how much those precious words helped me this weekend (Lord, I praise and thank You for your goodness and faithfulness!)

We both agree that you don’t throw 17 years away, and we are going to work on healing our mariage and our family and make them healthy and whole. Please continue to keep us in prayer as we heal.

God’s Blessings to you all,

Faustina Marie

 

[ForwardProgress]

This whole situation is so sad. I’ve almost seen my marriage ruined from NFP…2 marginal catholics, one comes back to the church, goes full bore into NFP when the other partner had no interest in it.

Sometimes I think converts/reverts get a little too ‘hard core’ and don’t slow down and let things happen on their own; we end up forcing a lot of issues when the other party is not ready.

It’s all a journey, and not everyone is on the same path or the same position.

 

[roxylu]

**

UPDATE!**

Everyone…thank you! For the prayers, wisdom, advice, and opinions. Your prayers are working and we are going to be ok. I feel like I can breathe again. We talked out many, many things that have just built up over the years. Things we’ve discussed before (too many times) but never came to any agreement on, so they just kept building up. Finally the dam had to break.

In prayer on Thursday, the Lord told me I needed humility, and to step back and really look at things again. He told me that I am not always right. I cannot tell you how much those precious words helped me this weekend (Lord, I praise and thank You for your goodness and faithfulness!)

We both agree that you don’t throw 17 years away, and we are going to work on healing our mariage and our family and make them healthy and whole. Please continue to keep us in prayer as we heal.

God’s Blessings to you all,

Faustina Marie

I am so happy that God has shown you the way.

I am in a relationship at the moment that has lasted over 3 years and I am praying that God shows my boyfriend that we cannot just throw away everything simply because we have gotten over the “falling in love” period.

I will keep praying for you and your family.

 

[TLM08]

This whole situation is so sad. I’ve almost seen my marriage ruined from NFP…2 marginal catholics, one comes back to the church, goes full bore into NFP when the other partner had no interest in it.

Sometimes I think converts/reverts get a little too ‘hard core’ and don’t slow down and let things happen on their own; we end up forcing a lot of issues when the other party is not ready.

It’s all a journey, and not everyone is on the same path or the same position.

Extremely insightful & Great advice.
Good post!

 

[whatevergirl]

YAY–Praise be to God, Faustina…I’m so happy for you. Hope things continue to move in a positive direction!

 

[wanner47]

**Praise God! ** I hope He continues to help the two of you heal your marriage.

 

[sharmin]

There is no sin in having sex with your husband after he has a vasectomy. While you shouldn’t encourage him to have one, you would not be required to abstain from intimacy afterwards.

This is true. I have been counseled by several priests on this too.

 

[vocatio]

Tis true. In time, if he doesn’t understand hopefully it will come to make sense. Unfortunately many of us don’t learn until it’s been taken away and then we lament over our mistakes, rightfully so. I just give it up to God as a sacrifice and pray that if it is his will he will open up her womb. I really would love to have another child or two, as many as God would give me. Our priests have clearly told us that the we are able to engage in the marital act without sin. The sin has been confessed and we just move forward.