My Idolatry Pickle

[StrawberryJam]

This is perceptive. Once God has become Incarnate and delivered his full revelation (not to mention his own Person), which of the OT laws do we keep, and which do we disregard? Given that there are hundreds of OT laws that Protestants do not keep, why the focus on this one? How is it not rank hypocrisy to attack Catholics for not following one OT law, while at the same time the attacker is not following hundreds of OT laws?

That’s my view anyway. But, I attribute that to Thomas.

One must see what the real argument is, and if it is even remotely valid based on the criteria they claim they believe in.

 

[unfailinglove]

Dear Mrs. Leviathan,
I find this forum very interesting because I am really searching for the truth. I read the bible as much as possible and I honor what it says. From what I remember, the God of Israel is a jealous God and He compares idolatry to prostitution. I’ve read many Catholics’ view that they DON’T worship the man-made statues of saints and of the Lord, but I found this video in youtube taken in a Catholic procession in the Philippines with thousands of devotees to the Black Nazarene. It made me uncomfortable how they kissed and frantically carried and adored the statue. If They were not worshiping the statue, I don’t know what they’re doing. PLs have a look at the video and see for yourself. I hope to get an honest answer/opinion.

youtube.com/watch?v=XhtwM_GvUmQ&NR=1

Thanks so much
unfailinglove

 

[VociMike]

If They were not worshiping the statue, I don’t know what they’re doing.

Since, as you admit, you don’t know what they’re doing, you have three choices.

1. Ask them
2. Be charitable in your assumptions
3. Be uncharitable in your assumptions

So why did you, as a Christian, choose #3?

 

[promethius]

Dear Mrs. Leviathan,
I find this forum very interesting because I am really searching for the truth. I read the bible as much as possible and I honor what it says. From what I remember, the God of Israel is a jealous God and He compares idolatry to prostitution. I’ve read many Catholics’ view that they DON’T worship the man-made statues of saints and of the Lord, but I found this video in youtube taken in a Catholic procession in the Philippines with thousands of devotees to the Black Nazarene. It made me uncomfortable how they kissed and frantically carried and adored the statue. If They were not worshiping the statue, I don’t know what they’re doing. PLs have a look at the video and see for yourself. I hope to get an honest answer/opinion.

youtube.com/watch?v=XhtwM_GvUmQ&NR=1

Thanks so much
unfailinglove

I’ll repeat my first point again. Perhaps you don’t know anything about the black nazarene statue. It was made more than four hundred years ago and brought to manilla in a ship which caught fire. Despite the fact that it is made of wood, the only damaged it suffered was the somehow permanent staining by soot. It has not deteriorated since then. In its time stored at quaipo church, despite the fact that it is constructed of wood, it survived undamaged twice when the church burned to the ground and once when the church was bombed in WWII. According to claims, there are people who have been healed by touching the statue.

I’ll repeat the point: there are items, places, and people that bring great glory to God. God is pleased by this and chooses to protect these things (such as a wooden statue undamaged by a fire that burns its church to the ground), and chooses to levy a grace upon those who honor that which brings Him glory. I find it interesting that a statue of Christ which is obviously pleasing to God for His worship is so objectable to you, and that you think that what God finds pleasing is so distasteful. Then again, I’ll not judge your lack of charity. The disposition of your heart is between you and God.

 

[unfailinglove]

Dear Catholic brethrens,
I know this is a delicate topic and I don’t want to hurt or offend any of you with my curiosity.
It just doesn’t make sense to me why we would need statues/images of the Lord to remind us of His presence and great love for us if we already believe that we are the Temple of the Holy spirit. Surely that intimate relationship with the Almighty through Jesus, by the Holy Spirit will be more than enough to remind us of His presence in our daily lives. I’m sorry if I offended any of you, but my intention was to get some real honest answers. Thanks so much.
God bless us all.
Unfailinglove

 

[CountOfJaffa]

Hi,

I came across your post because I was having similar concerns about the Infant. I sincerely hope your “pickle” has since been resolved. Maybe I can offer some advice, as I have, in the past, experienced general apprehension to the veneration of images.

With respect to the Infant of Prague, I believe that people are committing idolatry if they pray to the Infant so as to pray to the image itself, or if they treat the image as a kind of Hindu-esque avatar of Our Lord, instead of praying to Our Lord himself. We use statues as a means through which we may draw nearer to God. We have to remember that Our Lord himself is the Infant of Prague, whereas the physical image is not. This is fundamental to a correct understanding.

Now, there is only one Jesus, and he was indeed an infant at a point in time. If there is a sacred image in the city of Prague of Jesus, that image is simply of Jesus, not of a Prague Jesus, as opposed to a Moscow Jesus, or whatever. Jesus is not the Biblical pagan deity Baal, where people can worship different manifestations of him in different locales. So, if a person were to say, “The Infant of Prague saved my marriage, but it was the Infant of Kalamazoo who helped my wife manage through her third trimester,” that individual needs to be quarantined by a loved one and strictly catechized.

Similarly, I believe that one can commit idolatry if one prays to a particular Marian apparition without acknowledging that each apparition is of the same Mary. One cannot confound the Virgin of Guadeloupe with the Virgin of Mount Carmel, or of Fatima, or of Akita, etc, because they are appearances of the same person, not, for instance, of regional “Marys” who appear here and there.

Of course, I am not saying that Jesus is not everywhere at the same time, or that Mary, at the discretion of God, cannot have the same omnipresence that an angel is allowed. I am simply calling everyone to recognize that the Infant of a particular place is not distinct from any other Infant, and that they all point to the one Jesus Christ in whom we put all of our trust; similarly, every Mary is the one Mary who brings us closer to God.

Moreover, you should have no problems venerating images in general. As Nicaea II put it (I’m paraphrasing): To those who would compare the sacred images to the abhorrent idols of the pagans, let them be anathema!

I hope this can help.

God bless.

 

[bmullins]

On Good Friday, at the Veneration Of The Cross, I found myself unable to go up the front and kiss the crucifix. The priest intones “This is the wood of the cross, on which hung the Saviour of the world” and we reply “Come, let us worship”.

My Resonse: I read this as calling us to worship God.

The first time I heard it I immediately thought it was calling us to worship the cross, and I didn’t participate. I didn’t participate for several years in fact. Then one day I listened carefully to what was being said and came to the same conclusion. It is calling us to worship the Savior of the world, not the cross on which he hung. We should be venerating the cross, respecting and realizing the important role that it played, but the worship we are doing at the moment is recognizing that anytime we venerate a saint, relic, icon etc we are venerating it not simply because of their own merit, but because they allowed the grace to pass through them.