My impressions of the Evangelical Lutheran church I visited

[Country_Gal]

Why would I go back again? The Lutherans were welcoming and personal, the Catholic Church has always been impersonal and rather cold. Why, years ago I used to attend daily Mass a couple of times a week. Never did I get more than a nod from the, mainly, ladies who attended there. The Priest would retreat immediately.

I came to this place, someone actually asked me my name. That means a lot to a shy person such as me. I went to a Catholic Church for almost 20 years and remained feeling invisible, unministered to. This church has many fellowship and volunteering opportunities.

It took me 1 1/2 years to finally check it out. I thank God I did! They don’t put the barriers that the Catholic Church does. God’s grace can be had more easily, I sense.

I’ll continue to post my observations and perceptions as they develop.

 

[Country_Gal]

I’m happy to see your post. Reading through this thread, all I could think is “if these people think they’re encouraging someone to return to Mass, they’re wrong.” Talk about piling on!

Agreed. That side of the Catholic Church is what drives me away. I’m grateful and hopeful with Pope Francis though, to infuse new life and a more ecumenical spirit into the Church!

 

[MaryT777]

Agreed. That side of the Catholic Church is what drives me away. I’m grateful and hopeful with Pope Francis though, to infuse new life and a more ecumenical spirit into the Church!

I am grateful and love Pope Francis as well, but the truth of the matter is that there is one Church founded by Christ and it is the Catholic Church.

Are you familiar with the Lutheran Doctrine at all or does it not matter to you?

You never mentioned what Synod you went to but the ELCA teaches that homosexuality is OK and abortion is up in the air. They ordain women contrary to Scripture as well as homosexual clergy. You may want to view their thoughts on Holy Communion and number of Sacraments.

The LCMS teaches the office of the Papacy is AntiChrist. Does that sound ecumenical to you?

I highly doubt you were in a WELS church given what you noted.

I might think doctrine and what a church professes would be more important to you than someone saying Hello and what you perceive as more opportunities for you.

Please do find out what synod it was and read up on their profession of Faith and their doctrine. For the ELCA I have no clue where you would find that for it’s so diverse. For the LCMS the Concord book would be a good start.

My thoughts are you might run back home to Rome if you took some time to study the doctrine before you made any rash decision to leave the Catholic Church.

Mary.

 

[JonNC]

The LCMS teaches the office of the Papacy is AntiChrist. Does that sound ecumenical to you?

Mary.

Virtual all Lutheran synods this, and the Catholic Church teaches our communions are heresy. Neither sounds particularly ecumenical.

We have much work to do.

Jon

 

[Randy_Carson]

Virtual all Lutheran synods this, and the Catholic Church teaches our communions are heresy. Neither sounds particularly ecumenical.

We have much work to do.

Jon

FWIW, Jon, I’ve been Catholic for 35 years so, it’s possible that I have sat through over 1500 homilies.

I have heard a few references to “Protestants” and possibly one or two references to Orthodoxy (usually on the Feast of the Assumption), but to the best of my recollection, I have never heard the word, “Lutheran”, from the ambo.

And given the JDDJ and other discussions, it wouldn’t be fair to leave anyone with idea that we are still anathematizing all y’all.

 

[Country_Gal]

Just looked at their online schedule. It appears that Holy Communion is a normal part of their weekly Sunday worship service.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Just looked at their online schedule. It appears that Holy Communion is a normal part of their weekly Sunday worship service.

Great!

But remember, their communion is not actually the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus.

Receiving communion there does not satisfy your Sunday obligation as a Catholic.

 

[AltarKnight]

This post is about the Lutheran Church. Unfortunately, my local Catholic Church has an elderly associate pastor with a very scandalous history and I won’t be attending that church until he is gone. I won’t go into detail here for fear of offending this good forum.

You are aware that it is a mortal sin to purposefully miss mass on a Sunday without good reason, correct?

 

[JonNC]

FWIW, Jon, I’ve been Catholic for 35 years so, it’s possible that I have sat through over 1500 homilies.

I have heard a few references to “Protestants” and possibly one or two references to Orthodoxy (usually on the Feast of the Assumption), but to the best of my recollection, I have never heard the word, “Lutheran”, from the ambo.

And given the JDDJ and other discussions, it wouldn’t be fair to leave anyone with idea that we are still anathematizing all y’all.

I am not surprised, Randy. Likewise, I have never heard mention the Antichrist thing in church. In fact, I do not recall my dad, a Lutheran pastor, ever mentioning it at all. Ever.
On the rare instances my pastors have mentioned the CC over the years, it has either been complimentary, or simply to point out our differences in belief. Never an attack.

Then again, most parishes are not anonymous on-line forums.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Great!

But remember, their communion is not actually the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus.

Receiving communion there does not satisfy your Sunday obligation as a Catholic.

Country Gal,
Randy and I agree that your obligation is at Catholic mass.

We also agree that he has presented the proper Catholic teaching here about our Eucharist.

Where we disagree is that we Lutherans know that our sacrament is, indeed, the true body and true blood of Christ, given and should for the forgiveness of sins.

Jon

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Agreed. That side of the Catholic Church is what drives me away. I’m grateful and hopeful with Pope Francis though, to infuse new life and a more ecumenical spirit into the Church!

I like Pope Francis too. That being said, I hope you’ll be able to resolve your differences with your parish and return to the Church.

 

[commenter]

I am not surprised, Randy. Likewise, I have never heard mention the Antichrist thing in church. In fact, I do not recall my dad, a Lutheran pastor, ever mentioning it at all. Ever.
On the rare instances my pastors have mentioned the CC over the years, it has either been complimentary, or simply to point out our differences in belief. Never an attack.

What? A lapse in anathamas? Next thing you’ll tell me is we have to get rid of the rusting Inquisition torture instruments from our church basement.

Then again, most parishes are not anonymous on-line forums.
Jon

My parish until recently was an anonymous on-line sleep study. The newly assigned priest is trying to rev things up, with doctrine.

 

[commenter]

Country Gal,
Randy and I agree that your obligation is at Catholic mass.

We also agree that he has presented the proper Catholic teaching here about our Eucharist.

Where we disagree is that we Lutherans know that our sacrament is, indeed, the true body and true blood of Christ, given and should for the forgiveness of sins.

Jon

Jon, forgive me if you have explained this many times; the post you responded to, from Randy, referenced the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist, “body and blood, soul and divinity”, a classic Catholic formula. Your response referenced the true body and true blood. Would a Lutheran usually express that in terms of “soul and divinity” also, or is that already implied? I’m just curious about whether there is some significance, or just different formulas of words between the 2 Churches, maybe saying the same thing.
Your first sentence of course is your typical courtesy and charity.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Where we disagree is that we Lutherans know that our sacrament is, indeed, the true body and true blood of Christ, given and should for the forgiveness of sins.

Jon-

I need some education, because somehow I have missed this over the past few years.

What is the basis for your belief? As background:

jimmyakin.com/the-validity-of-the-eucharist-in-lutheran-and-anglican-churches

I’m only about halfway through Bainton’s biography of Luther, so maybe these questions are answered, but I don’t mind if you spoil it for me: How can Luther cut the cord to apostolic succession and then turn around and claim that valid orders and apostolic succession has been maintained in the absence of the laying on of hands by a successor of the Apostles?

 

[JonNC]

=commenter;12576281]What? A lapse in anathamas? Next thing you’ll tell me is we have to get rid of the rusting Inquisition torture instruments from our church basement.

Yes, along with the list of non-Catholics the Vatican keeps with it.

My parish until recently was an anonymous on-line sleep study. The newly assigned priest is trying to rev things up, with doctrine.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Jon, forgive me if you have explained this many times; the post you responded to, from Randy, referenced the Catholic teaching on the Eucharist, “body and blood, soul and divinity”, a classic Catholic formula. Your response referenced the true body and true blood. Would a Lutheran usually express that in terms of “soul and divinity” also, or is that already implied? I’m just curious about whether there is some significance, or just different formulas of words between the 2 Churches, maybe saying the same thing.
Your first sentence of course is your typical courtesy and charity.

I have never heard it describe that way in Lutheran circles, but I’ll check into it.

Thanks for your kind words.

Jon

 

[Neofight]

Reproving sinners is a spiritual work of mercy and an act of compassion. Read the Gospels and see if you are also embarrassed by Christ’s calling out of sin. If so, meditate on that. Remember, charity isn’t telling someone to keep sinning and it will all be okay. It is joining Christ in the call to “repent and believe the Gospel.”

If you have a better approach to the OP, we’re all ears, brother.

Nothing for the OP, but something for you to consider yourself, as you point out the speck in her eye:

Luke 18:9-14

9He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous and despised others: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11* The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12* I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.’ 13But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[Randy_Carson]

I realize that Lutherans have distanced themselves from much of what Luther actually wrote and said, but is what follows below part of that disavowed material?

In his treatise on marriage, Luther claims that Jesus permits divorce and remarriage in the case of adultery; this is a common mistake that I’ve addressed before. But what’s uncommon is one of the other exceptions that Luther claims: namely, that if your wife won’t have sex with you, this constitutes grounds for divorce, having the state force her to sleep with you, or having her executed:

The third case for divorce is that in which one of the parties deprives and avoids the other, refusing to fulfil the conjugal duty or to live with the other person. For example, one finds many a stubborn wife like that who will not give in, and who cares not a whit whether her husband falls into the sin of unchastity ten times over. Here it is time for the husband to say, “If you will not, another will; the maid will come if the wife will not.” Only first the husband should admonish and warn his wife two or three times, and let the situation be known to others so that her stubbornness becomes a matter of common knowledge and is rebuked before the congregation. If she still refuses, get rid of her; take an Esther and let Vashti go, as King Ahasuerus did [Esther 1:1 :17]. …]

When one resists the other and refuses the conjugal duty she is robbing the other of the body she had bestowed upon him. This is really contrary to marriage, and dissolves the marriage. **For this reason the civil government must compel the wife, or put her to death. If the government fails to act, the husband must reason that his wife has been stolen away and slain by robbers; he must seek another. **We would certainly have to accept it if someone’s life were taken from him. Why then should we not also accept it if a wife steals herself away from her husband, or is stolen away by others?

Fittingly, Luther’s support for this barbaric position isn’t Mark 10:11, which flatly forbids divorce and remarriage (describing it as adultery), but the practice of the pagan king Ahasuerus.

catholicdefense.blogspot.com/​

The original blogger did not provide the source of the quote from Luther, so any comments from those who know more about this would be appreciated.

 

[smead2942]

Just looked at their online schedule. It appears that Holy Communion is a normal part of their weekly Sunday worship service.

The Lutheran Church’s “Holy Communion” is not the Body and Blood of our Lord. To receive Protestant “communion” is a mortal sin as it is essentially a mockery of the Eucharist - Jesus’ glorified Body.

 

[smead2942]

Why would I go back again? The Lutherans were welcoming and personal, the Catholic Church has always been impersonal and rather cold. Why, years ago I used to attend daily Mass a couple of times a week. Never did I get more than a nod from the, mainly, ladies who attended there. The Priest would retreat immediately.

I came to this place, someone actually asked me my name. That means a lot to a shy person such as me. I went to a Catholic Church for almost 20 years and remained feeling invisible, unministered to. This church has many fellowship and volunteering opportunities.

It took me 1 1/2 years to finally check it out. I thank God I did! They don’t put the barriers that the Catholic Church does. God’s grace can be had more easily, I sense.

I’ll continue to post my observations and perceptions as they develop.

I think what you’re missing here is the objective purpose of attending church.

We don’t go to church to hear happy-clappy praise & worship (or Christmas childrens sing-a-long) music or listen to a heartwarming sermon from a personable pastor. Nor do we go to church to have social hour.

Jesus didn’t found his One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church for any of those reasons. He didn’t say “You are Luther and on his rock I build my communal worship service”. **He founded his Church to prepare the world for his Second Coming, to assist in the salvation of souls, and administer the Sacraments, especially the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. **

Good music, coffee hour, and a nice pastor will not get you to Heaven. I’m not saying Lutherans will not go to Heaven. I’m criticizing your priorities. Anyone looking for a church for those reasons, Catholic or protestant, is severely misguided. However scandalous the priest may be and however much you dislike the setting doesn’t lift your Sunday obligation, nor does it change the fact that the Catholic Church is the TRUE CHURCH OF CHRIST. Find a different Catholic Church to attend if the local one isn’t right for you. Separating yourself from the Bride of Christ, the only Church able to consecrate the Body and Blood of our Savior, is a grave sin against God.

Saying “no” to God and “yes” to sensationalism is wrong, regardless of circumstance.

Pax Christi my friend!