My John Kerry vote

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norbert

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Is it still a mortal sin for me to have voted for John Kerry? It doesn’t look like GWB is going to appoint the appropriate activist judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade. It seems to me that a vote for GWB can no longer be considered morally superior to a vote for JK - if anything, it is now a morally inferior vote, since Kerry wouldn’t have the blood on his hands from an unnecessary war. All those people who consulted those “Voting Guides for Right-thinking Catholics” in order to know what they needed to think and do were duped by ole George, no?
 
Whether it was a mortal sin depends on your culpability. It is objectively wrong to vote for a pro-abortion candidate. You were doing fine until, “All those people who consulted those “Voting Guides for Right-thinking Catholics” in order to know what they needed to think and do were duped by ole George, no?” This is why the Kerry lost and why the Left will continue to lose unless they shape up. They have no better ideas, so they have to accuse the supporters of the opposition of being mindless dupes.

I can reasonably disagree with the opposition without resorting to this rancor.

Scott
 
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norbert:
Is it still a mortal sin for me to have voted for John Kerry? It doesn’t look like GWB is going to appoint the appropriate activist judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade. It seems to me that a vote for GWB can no longer be considered morally superior to a vote for JK - if anything, it is now a morally inferior vote, since Kerry wouldn’t have the blood on his hands from an unnecessary war.** All those people who consulted those “Voting Guides for Right-thinking Catholics” in order to know what they needed to think and do were duped by ole George, no?**
How so? We don’t know how Miers will vote. She could be very good for the pro-life camp. If not, well, if we all had a crystle ball we wouldn’t make any mistakes. But at least I didn’t vote for someone I new was pro-abortion and WOULD appoint pro-abortion judges that COULD HAVE shaped the court for generations to come.

Peace
 
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dennisknapp:
How so? We don’t know how Miers will vote. She could be very good for the pro-life camp. If not, well, if we all had a crystle ball we wouldn’t make any mistakes. But at least I didn’t vote for someone I new was pro-abortion and WOULD appoint pro-abortion judges that COULD HAVE shaped the court for generations to come.

Peace
Preach it, brother! :amen:
 
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norbert:
Is it still a mortal sin for me to have voted for John Kerry? It doesn’t look like GWB is going to appoint the appropriate activist judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade. It seems to me that a vote for GWB can no longer be considered morally superior to a vote for JK - if anything, it is now a morally inferior vote, since Kerry wouldn’t have the blood on his hands from an unnecessary war. All those people who consulted those “Voting Guides for Right-thinking Catholics” in order to know what they needed to think and do were duped by ole George, no?
It was activist judges who wrote the majoity opinion of RvW. Even some of the most ardent pro-abortion activists agree that Roe was decided by faulty logic, so overturning Roe would be a positive step for American jurisprudence.

Legal Experts See Abortion Without Roe

“Roe was terribly reasoned,” said Scott Powe, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law. “I think there’s some requirement under the Constitution that if you cannot explain a decision and its relationship with legal materials, it’s not a valid decision.”
Powe, who describes himself as “100 percent pro-choice,” is far from alone in his criticism of Roe. Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas have made no secret of their revulsion toward Roe on legal grounds.
 
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norbert:
Is it still a mortal sin for me to have voted for John Kerry? It doesn’t look like GWB is going to appoint the appropriate activist judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade. It seems to me that a vote for GWB can no longer be considered morally superior to a vote for JK - if anything, it is now a morally inferior vote, since Kerry wouldn’t have the blood on his hands from an unnecessary war. All those people who consulted those “Voting Guides for Right-thinking Catholics” in order to know what they needed to think and do were duped by ole George, no?
Well, there are a couple of problems with your logic, not to tear you down, I just have a different point of view. Judge Roberts would not have been nominated by Kerry, right? What do we all think that Kerry would have done with these openings? He certainly would not have helped us, where as GWB is putting in Catholics and Republicans who are prolife. And the war is not necessarily unjust. They had the capability to make nuclear weapons, but that was skimmed over by the media. Kerry would have made this country much worse. Now, just because I think that given the choices, Bush is better, does not mean that I agree with everything Bush does. I am married and I don’t agree with everything my husband does, but that does not mean that I am going to throw the baby out with the bath water. Do I make any sense?
 
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norbert:
Is it still a mortal sin for me to have voted for John Kerry? It doesn’t look like GWB is going to appoint the appropriate activist judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade. It seems to me that a vote for GWB can no longer be considered morally superior to a vote for JK - if anything, it is now a morally inferior vote, since Kerry wouldn’t have the blood on his hands from an unnecessary war. All those people who consulted those “Voting Guides for Right-thinking Catholics” in order to know what they needed to think and do were duped by ole George, no?
You mean you haven’t gone to confession YET???
Look, I am really sorry, this is going to sound rude, but I am a little sick and tired of it, ok? The reason I didnt vote for Kerry is because he claims to be a Catholic while he believes it’s a personal decision to have an abortion or not. Sounds to me like he was trying to play both sides of the fence and he lost. Get over it, move on.
Oh, and one other thing, IF Kerry had been chosen President, which he wasn’t, (thank you dear God and all you angels and saints.) we would probably have a draft today. At least now the only people in the Military are there of their own free choice. Remember Kerry is the one who said he would have doubled the numbers to send them over there to end this thing faster, now where was he going to get those people? Gee, I think he probably would have drafted them, thereby FORCING them to go.
Just as people FORCE babies to die and don’t give them a chance or a choice to live. (talk about blood on their hands)!!
 
Too many people have a very narrow and naieve view of Roe vs. Wade. If it was overruled completely tomorrow, Friday abortions would continue in most states unabated. Overturing Roe would simply had the matter back to the individual states to decide.

It is simplistic to think that an activist judge, as the term is used herein, would even make it through hearings, let alone though a vote. Any judge who actually stated a postion on Roe would be voted down not only by pro-choice Senators, but likely also by some pro-life Senators as not of judicial material.

there are many ways of saying that a judge would consider dismanteling Roe, but many of them are sophisticated enough that many, if not most listeners would not understand.

It will remain to be seen how she does in the hearings, but she is following a brilliant scholar who gave theSenators in the hearings who were pro-choice fits and starts, as he answered every one of their questions in a way they knew the results, but in a way that they could not hang him. They simply could not find the “Ah ha!” sound bite.

Since she has not been a judge, no one has seen how she might rule; most of her opinions have been from a postion of representing one party against another, rather than from the position of deciding, after hearing both parties but not representing either. There should be no question that thse is bright; ond doesn’t graduate with her rankings and not be. But what her judicial philosophy actually is, or how it will paly out, is an unknown to us, and possibly even to her. It is only through the process of making desicions and then looking back that one really begins to get a clear definition of one’s own actual, as opposed to proposed, philosophy as a judge.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
“Roe was terribly reasoned,” said Scott Powe, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law. “I think there’s some requirement under the Constitution that if you cannot explain a decision and its relationship with legal materials, it’s not a valid decision.”

This guy would not be my choice to throw around accusations about terrible reasoning. If he really thinks there’s such a requirement, he should state precisely where it is to be found. If he feels that as a matter of practice, you should be able to explain a decision adequately in order for people to have respect for your position, fine. But a decision made without such is still a valid decision - Plessy v. Ferguson was a valid decision, and the law of the land until it was overturned years later.

I really hope that this UT law professor did not say that sentence, but was misquoted.
 
BTW, judges aren’t suppose to be activist. They are suppose to interpret laws which have been made by the legislature. NOT make new ones.
 
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norbert:
Is it still a mortal sin for me to have voted for John Kerry? It doesn’t look like GWB is going to appoint the appropriate activist judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade.
So are you arguing the two main options were Hitler vs Hitler, both are equally evil, so you could legitimatize your vote for Kerry? In such instances, it would be better to vote third party or not vote for president at all, if this is what you believed you faced. Many faithful Catholics made this decision in 2004.

With knowledge that Kerry supports the deliberate & legal killing of millions of innocent children, it is would be always wrong to vote for such a candidate, unless he is the lesser to two evils. Meaning his main opponent would have to be in support of deliberately killing millions of innocent people.
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norbert:
It seems to me that a vote for GWB can no longer be considered morally superior to a vote for JK - if anything, it is now a morally inferior vote, since Kerry wouldn’t have the blood on his hands from an unnecessary war. All those people who consulted those “Voting Guides for Right-thinking Catholics” in order to know what they needed to think and do were duped by ole George, no?
Nice attempt at slamming the Catholic Answers voting guide. War and capital punishment can never be equated or compared to abortion. Both the size of the slaughter of abortion (tens of millions) and the fact that abortion is always wrong because it kills innocent life: sets abortion in a category of its own. There’s no Catholic doctrine that states this particular war is just and that war is unjust. The Catholic Church sets up the guidelines and it is up to the State to make the informed judgement regarding war and capital punishment.

And if you are waiting for the Catholic Church to “change”. People have been waiting for the Catholic Church to “get with the times” for over 1,000 years. Each generation has it’s own liberals, demanding the Church to change its doctrines to suit the current culture.
 
BTW, norbert, this was your standard for voting for Kerry:
If there was a political candidate or party whom I felt would be able to eliminate abortion altogether (and not just make it illegal, but eliminate abortion from actually happening - a big difference) then I would vote for the candidate. I don’t see that ever happening anytime soon, though. Certainly there is no reason to think that George Bush is going to do anything in the next 3 years.
With that said, I vote for the candidate whom I think will work to improve the lives and well-being of all Americans, especially those in need. That usually means voting for the Democrat.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=673380&postcount=2
 
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Digitonomy:
This guy would not be my choice to throw around accusations about terrible reasoning. If he really thinks there’s such a requirement, he should state precisely where it is to be found. If he feels that as a matter of practice, you should be able to explain a decision adequately in order for people to have respect for your position, fine. But a decision made without such is still a valid decision - Plessy v. Ferguson was a valid decision, and the law of the land until it was overturned years later.

I really hope that this UT law professor did not say that sentence, but was misquoted.
If you read the article, the case was made for Brown vs Board of Education. The SCOTUS decision was not socially accepted until Congress passed laws refecting the opinion.

“Rights are most secure when they are supported by legislative enactment,” Balkin told FOXNews.com. He said he believes the right to abortion would have been better settled if it had been articulated through congressional channels.

A case in point, Balkin said, was 1954’s Brown v. Board of Education ruling that made racial segregation illegal. The decision was so unpopular at the time — even among anti-segregation legal scholars — that it inspired segregationist lawmakers to mandate congressional hearings for Supreme Court candidates, a process Judge John Roberts got to know quite well.
“Brown truly becomes law, really becomes something everyone’s on board with after the Civil Rights Act of 1964,” Balkin said. “At that point, Congress said, ‘We are behind Brown.’”

In other words, he said, Brown was not considered by many Americans to be legitimate until its basic tenets were codified through the legislative process."

The point of the matter is that Conngress has never been able to, and WILL never be able to codify the SCOTUS decision of Roe.
 
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mjdonnelly:
BTW, judges aren’t suppose to be activist. They are suppose to interpret laws which have been made by the legislature. NOT make new ones.
:amen:
 
**This is why the Kerry lost and why the Left will continue to lose unless they shape up. They have no better ideas said:
**I can reasonably disagree with the opposition without resorting to this rancor. **
Scott

I couldn’t have said it better.:clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
 
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Scott_Lafrance:
If you read the article, the case was made for Brown vs Board of Education. The SCOTUS decision was not socially accepted until Congress passed laws refecting the opinion…

The point of the matter is that Conngress has never been able to, and WILL never be able to codify the SCOTUS decision of Roe.
This is a reasonable argument. However, it is not what Powe said.
I think there’s some requirement under the Constitution that if you cannot explain a decision and its relationship with legal materials, it’s not a valid decision.
There is no such requirement. I don’t think his quote should have been included in the article, and I don’t think including his quote made your point very well.

Your use of “socially accepted” is much more accurate. A decision can be a poor one or a great one, but is still equally valid. Whichever of those two categories it falls into, it will be much more accepted by the public if it has legislation to support it after the fact - as Plessy did with various Jim Crow laws.
 
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norbert:
Is it still a mortal sin for me to have voted for John Kerry? It doesn’t look like GWB is going to appoint the appropriate activist judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade. It seems to me that a vote for GWB can no longer be considered morally superior to a vote for JK - if anything, it is now a morally inferior vote, since Kerry wouldn’t have the blood on his hands from an unnecessary war. All those people who consulted those “Voting Guides for Right-thinking Catholics” in order to know what they needed to think and do were duped by ole George, no?
Of course not. It’s your vote and if you do it with a clear conscience that’s the end of it. Catholics are taught to think and apply the teachings of the Church; not to pull the lever the way that someone else instructs.
 
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Thekla:
Of course not. It’s your vote and if you do it with a clear conscience that’s the end of it. Catholics are taught to think and apply the teachings of the Church; not to pull the lever the way that someone else instructs.
That’s great! Next time when an active KKK member runs for office in Louisiana, there is nothing immoral or unethical about supporting and helping that person get elected. Our vote is our vote and we get to do whatever we want with no moral consequences such as the fear of committing a sin for supporting a cross burning, Catholic-hating, Jew-hating, black-hating person.

Makes me want to get Mr. Duke to run for governor all over again. :rolleyes:
 
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