My John Kerry vote

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Bella3502:
It does matter. Stopping abortion in certain parts of town, and letting it continue in others is just wrong.
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That’s what Lisa4 said—it needs to stop no matter where it is found.
 
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Thekla:
The Church says that WE get to weigh the issues; that obviously some are of grave concern and others are quite minor. And, we are under no moral obligation to vote strictly on a single issue like abortion.
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What a nice post! abortion is a minor concern for you?
 
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norbert:
Is it still a mortal sin for me to have voted for John Kerry? It doesn’t look like GWB is going to appoint the appropriate activist judges who will overturn Roe v. Wade. It seems to me that a vote for GWB can no longer be considered morally superior to a vote for JK - if anything, it is now a morally inferior vote, since Kerry wouldn’t have the blood on his hands from an unnecessary war. All those people who consulted those “Voting Guides for Right-thinking Catholics” in order to know what they needed to think and do were duped by ole George, no?
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I point blank asked our pastor (who has since retired) if it was a sin to vote for John Kerry…He told me, and the whole assembly that it was not…We were to vote our conscience…
 
Catholic Heart:
I point blank asked our pastor (who has since retired) if it was a sin to vote for John Kerry…He told me, and the whole assembly that it was not…We were to vote our conscience…
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Of course it is not a sin if your conscience tells you it is the right thing to do, and is intellectually justifiable. The arrogance of people telling other people to go to confession because they voted a certain way, in good conscience, astonishes me.

My conscience tells me if I had a vote to have voted for Kerry. I would far rather vote for someone who, while regrettably supporting the option of abortion, is likely to put policies in place far closer to the teachings of Jesus, and incidentally reduce abortion rates anyway. Especially when the alternative is someone who says the right words (occasionally) but does very little indeed in actions to further the causes about which we ought to care.

Mike
 
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miguel:
If God lets baby killers and their supporters into heaven, I don’t want to go there.
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I think that we are losing (yet again) the issue here. Is it a mortal sin to vote for Kerry? Why is it a mortal sin to vote for Kerry who is pro abortion (yuck…that left a bad taste in my mouth) yet we can Vote for President Bush? Is President Bush any better?

Look what he has done, not only his years as president, but what about when he was governor of Texas. Do you agree with any of that? Texas has the highest rate of executions in the United States. Look at all of the innocent lives that were killed during the war. (Yes I know it was because of the 9/11.) I do not think neither one of them should be president.

Yet again, this is the good thing about living in the United States. Freedom of speech. We have a Freedom of choice. I am proud to be a United States Citizen and am proud of my voting rights. But, maybe we need better people running for president. You think?
 
Mom of one:
That’s what Lisa4 said—it needs to stop no matter where it is found.
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I totally agree, that is exactly what Lisa was saying.
 
Actually it is a sin to vote for a suporter of abortion since it is against church teachings. We cannot willingly support something that is a mortal sin. I don’t care what policies JK might have suported had he become president, the fact that abortion was something he suported makes him automatically morally wrong to support. Ask the Pope, I’m sure he’d agree. Oh, and relativism has no place here.
 
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MikeWM:
Of course it is not a sin if your conscience tells you it is the right thing to do, and is intellectually justifiable. The arrogance of people telling other people to go to confession because they voted a certain way, in good conscience, astonishes me.

My conscience tells me if I had a vote to have voted for Kerry. I would far rather vote for someone who, while regrettably supporting the option of abortion, is likely to put policies in place far closer to the teachings of Jesus, and incidentally reduce abortion rates anyway. Especially when the alternative is someone who says the right words (occasionally) but does very little indeed in actions to further the causes about which we ought to care.

Mike
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To others: When you voted Kerry because you’ve lost contact with reality, it’s definately not a mortal sin, though it’s still a sin.
 
You wholeheartedly support someone who helps continue to help the murder of millions of unborn babies? :tsktsk:
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jasmine:
I supported wholeheartedly John Kerry
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Preach on brother! :clapping:

:blessyou:
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Brad:
So you wholeheartedly support the party that embraces, funds, and works to legalize all kinds of immorality and murder because you would rather be intellectually honest than stop the immorality and murder?

Putting it back to the states is where it belongs - where the people can decide whether it should be legal or not. Right now, nobody can pass a bill to outlaw abortion because of Roe V. Wade. I’d say it would be extremely fortunate if this were to be overturned. What is unfortunate is so-called pro-lifers that do not want it overturned. This makes no logical sense.

The Democrats practice that socio-economic problem solver of handing out condoms in schools. This encourages more sexual activity. Last I checked, sexual activity leads to “unwanted” pregnancies. I’ve yet to see anyone forced to engage in sexual behavior outside of rape.

They also have a fabulous socioeconmic plan of supporting Planned Parenthood which murders babies for profit and then puts that profit back into the pockets of Democrat politicians so they can retain power. How this helps blacks in cities such as Philadelphia where approximately 50% of their babies are put to death, I haven’t quite figured out.

Planned Parenthood also will not report rape and sexual abuse in an effort to protect sexual predators which keeps that socioeconomic system of demand (more pregnancies to be aborted) continuing to keep business going. Of course, it does have economic benefit because it produces more jobs for Planned Parenthood.

The Democrats’ welfare plan has worked so successfully for the past 50 years that we now have entire segments of cities that are dependent on government revenue and still poor. Yet the abortion rate remains high.

Other liberal social policies such as no-fault divorce and legalized and plentiful pornography have a funny way of increasing unwanted pregancies across all economic classes.

They’ve been so successul in schools with the ABC program that now kids think oral sex is cool and communicative. Whereas unwanted pregnancies may not increase with this behavior, unwanted sexual disease has sure taken a sharp turn upwards which doesn’t tend to benefit such famies economically.

Where did Jesus mention the disenfranchised? When did Jesus or the Church say the death penalty is always wrong? When did Jesus say it was the government’s job to help the poor?

Huh?

And it is political suicide for Democrats not to promote homosexual immorality, child sex, and the murder of babies.
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:nope:
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Bella3502:
I never believed for a minute that Bush was pro-life. But he had to say that because he wanted to be President. Over his terms he has become just another PLINO republican. In other words, he lives a lie. I may not agree with a lot of politicians but I have more respect for those who in the very least tell the truth. Bush has never done this. I think once you start lying about one issue, it’s easy to continue in other areas.

I voted for Kerry too. I don’t think it was a mortal sin. And if it was, then it has to be an even bigger one to vote for someone who lies and says they are something that they are not.

Miers is as pro-life as Bush, and that means she is not.
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But you have seen the errors of your ways ( sin ) and repented…

:blessyou:
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MommaKat:
Please don’t condem us all. It is the biggest regret of my life. I have named my children and have given them to God. My biggest fear is that I will never get to meet them. I have repented from this grave mortal sin and believe that God in his mercy has forgiven me! I think that we should not condem everyone who has made this error. I wouldn’t vote for someone who would want to continue the exploitation of women and children. If others are blind and cannot see crime against human rights that abortion is that is their own curse. If they won’t stand up against evil it will destroy them in the end. I would not want to be destroyed that way because it is eternal.
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Thekla:
The Church says that WE get to weigh the issues…
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No, the Church hasn’t said that when it comes to abortion, the topic of this thread.

Abortion is wrong. Period. Voting for a candidate who publicly works to make abortion more commonplace is wrong. Period.
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MikeWM:
Of course it is not a sin if your conscience tells you it is the right thing to do, and is intellectually justifiable.
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This statement is contrary to Church teaching. No one’s conscience is an infallible guide.
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MikeWM:
The arrogance of people telling other people to go to confession because they voted a certain way, in good conscience, astonishes me.
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No one can, in good conscience, support abortion. To say otherwise is truly arrogant.
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MikeWM:
My conscience tells me if I had a vote to have voted for Kerry. I would far rather vote for someone who, while regrettably supporting the option of abortion, is likely to put policies in place far closer to the teachings of Jesus, and incidentally reduce abortion rates anyway.
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Policies like nominating only pro-abortion justices, using federal monies to pay for abortion, working to legalize gay marriage, and lifting all bans on embryonic stem cell research “are far closer to the teachings of Jesus”? That must come as quite a surprise to the Church.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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mlchance:
This statement is contrary to Church teaching. No one’s conscience is an infallible guide.
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Of course not - but with logical backing for your position, sometimes you have to sit back and say ‘what I’m being told to do here is wrong’. I’ll go for the document from the USCCB on voting, along with the documents from the bishops of England and Wales, and Cardinal Ratzinger’s statement last year
A Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of the candidate’s permissive stand on abortion and/or euthanasia. When a Catholic does not share a candidate’s stand in favour of abortion and/or euthanasia, but votes for that candidate for other reasons, it is considered remote material cooperation, which can be permitted in the presence of proportionate reasons.
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I believe there were proportionate reasons for voting for Kerry over Bush. I have set them out here a number of times. God gave me my brain and my conscience to use, and they tell me that Kerry was the better candidate.
No one can, in good conscience, support abortion. To say otherwise is truly arrogant.
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Good job I have never said that, isn’t it? I don’t support abortion, and will oppose it any chance I get, but elections are about a hundred things. I can prevent abortions at the grassroots by talking to people considering abortion, educating, supporting anti-abortion groups. I cannot prevent capital punishment being carried out, or the fighting of unjust wars. The only peaceful way to do that is to change the government through the ballot box.
Policies like nominating only pro-abortion justices, using federal monies to pay for abortion, working to legalize gay marriage, and lifting all bans on embryonic stem cell research “are far closer to the teachings of Jesus”? That must come as quite a surprise to the Church.
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If they were the only policies of Kerry, then yes.

How about policies like expanding capital punishment, fighting unjust wars, expanding nuclear proliferation, increasing the injustices in society, cronyism, and all the fun policies of the Bush administration?

If people here want to vote Republican anyway, then fine, just come out and say you are Republican. Don’t hide behind this abortion excuse - because Republicans are doing next to nothing about abortion, they are playing politics by saying the right words to get your vote and then ignoring you.

Given the choice between people ignorant of why abortion is such an issue, who can be educated, and hypocrites[1] who pretend to know the importance of the issue and yet do nothing, I’ll go for the ignorant every time.

Mike

[1] A perfectly Christian word, ‘hypocrite’, Jesus used it in this week’s Gospel 🙂
 
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Bella3502:
Sorry, I guess I should have asked for CREDIBLE LINKS…

“Negro” population… Yeah that’s a good one.:rolleyes:

Does anyone keep track of the abortions done in places like Beverly Hills?
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So what is the definition of a “credible” link? One that is not Catholic? Considering this is a Catholic forum, that’s a bit silly, don’t you think?

Here’s a few more:

blackgenocide.org/negro.html

It’s funny. You mocked the Sanger quote as if she never would have said that. Perhaps you think Planned Parenthood’s own web site is a more reliable source of what she said. They quote this exact statement and a host of others in a pathetic attempt to defend her goals:

plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/medicalinfo/birthcontrol/bio-margaret-sanger.xml

Sanger acknowledged the fears because she knew they were true. Sick indeed. Racist and genocidal. The other quotes they mention that are not attibuted to Sanger they still admit are written in the birth control journals as the movement was beginning. But I’m sure noble and holy Planned Parentood arose from all this racism and bigotry to be the beacon of shining light that they are today.

Shut them down now.
 
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