D
dmelosi
Guest
Without changing the subject again, which you always do, which would your rather have 8 years of judges appointed by Bush or by Kerry?
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J
Julian_Peters
Guest
The charity level of this discussion appears to be deteriorating. Please self-edit for tone and content before clicking the “Submit” button. In addition, this discussion has strayed from its original topic.
If the atmosphere does not improve, this thread will be closed.
If the atmosphere does not improve, this thread will be closed.
D
dmelosi
Guest
Julian Peters:
Dave
My apologies, I do get carried away at times.
Dave
Y
YADA
Guest
Respectfully submitted (and FYI, I am not pro death penalty, I am for real “Life Sentences” for those among us who are a danger to society).
The fact that some people support the death penalty does not make them ‘anti-life’ or ‘pro-choice’. It may reflect a reality that some criminals are in fact a danger to society that cannot be managed. While I support “Life Sentences” believing that that is in fact a good safe guard there are some families in Texas, where prisoners with life sentences escaped and murdered more innocent people several years back. They could speak to how ‘safe’ their loved ones were with our penal system. They could come to a very real diference of thought in that regard as they mourn their loved ones murdered on Christmas eve.
The same can be said for our law enforcement, district attorneys, judges, governors and presidents. They have a duty to protect the citizens from murderous criminals. They are charged with the duty to enforce the law. We, the people can lobby for changes in the laws. I believe that if we, as a society, want an end to the death penalty we can work to that end.
Personnaly, I support holding criminals responsible for their crimes, short of the death penalty. That said, there is a HUGE difference between an innocent baby in the womb and a convicted murderer who has been given a defense paid for by the people, a trial by jury (or judge), and automatic appeals in addition to any other appeals that can be brought. All of that, PLUS years of being on death row , where time could allow them to be found innocent, they could die of natural causes, they might also come to repentence and develop a life of faith.
And yes, I realize that some actually may be innocent even though found guilty. That is one of the reasons I am against the death penalty! However, EVERY UNBORN CHILD IS INNOCENT. No aborted ababy has ever had a trial with a defense attorney and been convisted of a crime.
The INNOCENT UNBORN MURDERED:
4000/day (one million four hundred sixty thousand per year) The number written out = 1,460,000 a Holocaust
Executions (convicted, sentenced, lost all apeals)
Less than 0.15 per day (about 50 per year.)
Where is the justice for the babies? Is it that they are not spoken of and their bodies torn apart and then discarded in secret that makes them less than the John Wayne Gacy types that are front page news? Because the magnitude is horrific. The trauma caused by abortion and its aftermath are very real.
And the democratic party has a “Pro Abortion” plank in their party platform. They are against any limitations to abortion. They are pro abortion at every stage upto delivering the baby’s head and they are against parental notification. Predominantly, the party is pro abortion with a few pro-life advocates. The republican party has a “Pro Life” plank in the party platform. The party has worked for an end to abortion and for limiting abortions, with parental notification and attempts to limit late term abortion. Sadly, the republican party has a few pro abortion advocates. Even sadly still, some of those pro abortion advocates consiider themselves ‘Catholic’ (Guiliani, Arnold Szwart., Whitman and Pataki come to mind).
II truly believe that Mother Teresa was correct when she said that “if you want an end to war, end abortion.” I believe that if you want an end to the death penalty and less murder and mayhem on the streets of America, ending abortion is the first step. I want all of the above. Pax
The fact that some people support the death penalty does not make them ‘anti-life’ or ‘pro-choice’. It may reflect a reality that some criminals are in fact a danger to society that cannot be managed. While I support “Life Sentences” believing that that is in fact a good safe guard there are some families in Texas, where prisoners with life sentences escaped and murdered more innocent people several years back. They could speak to how ‘safe’ their loved ones were with our penal system. They could come to a very real diference of thought in that regard as they mourn their loved ones murdered on Christmas eve.
The same can be said for our law enforcement, district attorneys, judges, governors and presidents. They have a duty to protect the citizens from murderous criminals. They are charged with the duty to enforce the law. We, the people can lobby for changes in the laws. I believe that if we, as a society, want an end to the death penalty we can work to that end.
Personnaly, I support holding criminals responsible for their crimes, short of the death penalty. That said, there is a HUGE difference between an innocent baby in the womb and a convicted murderer who has been given a defense paid for by the people, a trial by jury (or judge), and automatic appeals in addition to any other appeals that can be brought. All of that, PLUS years of being on death row , where time could allow them to be found innocent, they could die of natural causes, they might also come to repentence and develop a life of faith.
And yes, I realize that some actually may be innocent even though found guilty. That is one of the reasons I am against the death penalty! However, EVERY UNBORN CHILD IS INNOCENT. No aborted ababy has ever had a trial with a defense attorney and been convisted of a crime.
The INNOCENT UNBORN MURDERED:
4000/day (one million four hundred sixty thousand per year) The number written out = 1,460,000 a Holocaust
Executions (convicted, sentenced, lost all apeals)
Less than 0.15 per day (about 50 per year.)
Where is the justice for the babies? Is it that they are not spoken of and their bodies torn apart and then discarded in secret that makes them less than the John Wayne Gacy types that are front page news? Because the magnitude is horrific. The trauma caused by abortion and its aftermath are very real.
And the democratic party has a “Pro Abortion” plank in their party platform. They are against any limitations to abortion. They are pro abortion at every stage upto delivering the baby’s head and they are against parental notification. Predominantly, the party is pro abortion with a few pro-life advocates. The republican party has a “Pro Life” plank in the party platform. The party has worked for an end to abortion and for limiting abortions, with parental notification and attempts to limit late term abortion. Sadly, the republican party has a few pro abortion advocates. Even sadly still, some of those pro abortion advocates consiider themselves ‘Catholic’ (Guiliani, Arnold Szwart., Whitman and Pataki come to mind).
II truly believe that Mother Teresa was correct when she said that “if you want an end to war, end abortion.” I believe that if you want an end to the death penalty and less murder and mayhem on the streets of America, ending abortion is the first step. I want all of the above. Pax
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Bella3502
Guest
What’s there to explain about judges he has appointed? Like the majority of the Republican party, they oppose abortion on a “personal” level, but they are not going to try and overturn Roe vs Wade after 30 years…
B
Bella3502
Guest
I can’t honestly answer that… we only know Bush’s choices… I have no clue as to whom Kerry would appoint. I don’t think Bush’s choices are prolife, so I don’t see any difference between them and anyone Kerry would appoint.
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migurl
Guest
Has GWB ever said abortion is ok all the time? I dont think so.
M
miguel
Guest
I and others have made this point before…a big reason for this is that Catholics have been divided in the voting booth. If all of us made the pro-life cause a priority, voting in unison against pro-aborts of whatever stripe, we’d have clout as a bloc. Right now, with a divided vote, there’s no real pressure from Catholics to get the Democrats to abandon their pro-abortion platform. They can pretty much count on half of us voting their way. For the same reason, there’s no real pressure on Republicans to move out on their pro-life platform. It boils down to cause and effect. Catholics divided will accomplish nothing, has accomplished nothing. But there is clout in unity. We are 25% of the electorate. Our goal should be to make both parties pro-life. If Democrats lost 12.5% of their support for an election or two, it wouldn’t take long for them to face reality. They’d probably even win back a majority of the Catholic vote if they did. If there is anything to be learned from the last 32 years, if we don’t make life a priority, the baby killing will continue. Our Lord warned us of the day of judgement…alot of wailing and nashing of teeth. Will that be because people will realize, too late, that they should have done the right thing? The abortion issue will be a big part of that story when it’s all played out.
D
dmelosi
Guest
This message says it all. If anyone agrees that abortion is the most important issue, there can be no other way to vote. If they do not, I cannot understand why.
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BlindSheep
Guest
I guess since you have the ability to read minds and see into the future, you’re obligated to vote accordingly. Those of us who lack supernatural abilities have to make our best guess.
S
Servus_Pio_XII
Guest
Vote Tory! I believe they are one of the only parties in the Western world who officially wish to cut down on and eventually do away with abortion.
If there are no good men to vote for, then do not vote. There is no lesser of two evils.
If there are no good men to vote for, then do not vote. There is no lesser of two evils.
R
riverman
Guest
Servus Pio XII:
NEGATIVE GHOST RIDER!!! I do not agree with this! Many Americans have died for our right to vote! We owe it to them and the current servicemen to exercise our right to vote! I and many other servicemen are proud to serve this great country and provide our citizens all their freedoms and rights. We have a right that many people in this world do not have! There will never be a candidate that meets all your political views. Just do your research and make an educated vote. Don’t take our right to vote for granted.
D
dmelosi
Guest
Servus Pio XII:
I could not find a mention for pro life,instead they use anit-choice, radical right wing to describe pro life people
www.democrats.org
Bush Sacrifices Stem Cell Research to Radical Right Wing Politics
About abortion and their well known feelings that they will do everything they can to promote the woman’s right to choose/abortion
democrats.org/a/2005/10/what_we_know_ab.php
FROM THE REPUBLICAN’S OFFICIAL WEBSITE
gop.com/
They have a Catholic team, Pro Life is mentioned throughout the site.
Building a Culture of Life: President Bush is the most pro-life president in history. He has signed into law the Born Alive Infants Act, Partial Birth Abortion Ban and Laci & Connor Peterson’s Law.
My point with this, if you don’t vote and the group that promotes abortion wins, are you not helping them with your inaction?
Is that not worse than simply sticking your head in the sand?
FROM THE DEMOCRATS OFFICIAL WEBSITE
I could not find a mention for pro life,instead they use anit-choice, radical right wing to describe pro life people
www.democrats.org
Bush Sacrifices Stem Cell Research to Radical Right Wing Politics
About abortion and their well known feelings that they will do everything they can to promote the woman’s right to choose/abortion
democrats.org/a/2005/10/what_we_know_ab.php
FROM THE REPUBLICAN’S OFFICIAL WEBSITE
gop.com/
They have a Catholic team, Pro Life is mentioned throughout the site.
Building a Culture of Life: President Bush is the most pro-life president in history. He has signed into law the Born Alive Infants Act, Partial Birth Abortion Ban and Laci & Connor Peterson’s Law.
My point with this, if you don’t vote and the group that promotes abortion wins, are you not helping them with your inaction?
Is that not worse than simply sticking your head in the sand?
S
Servus_Pio_XII
Guest
I will not help put into office someone who contradicts in any way the Church.
Forgive me if I blaspheme against the nation, but better it than God.
S
system
Guest
But, through the Father, anything is possible.
Famous quote in the Bible. I want to go to heaven with all of the other sinners who have been forgiven. May God have mercy on us all!
S
system
Guest
Are you free from sin at all times? Didn’t you get any grace period to figure out that what you may have been doing was wrong? Haven’t you ever done anything in your life that was horrendous. I have never had an abortion, but I have done things that were horrendous. It says in the Bible that liars and fornicators shall never enter the gates of Heaven. Have you ever lied? This seems like a very serious sin. I have lied. Let whoever is without sin cast the first stone.
Y
YADA
Guest
MikeWM,
Here is the link regarding abortion statistics:
nrlc.org/abortion/facts/abortionstats.html
It is pure propaganda to suggest that abortions are higher under Bush than Clinton and that would somehow justify voting for or supporting politicians who are Pro Abortion. The statistics are very rough as the link will show. Many states have stopped reporting data, many states have changed their reporting over time.
I apologize for taking so long to get the link.
As an engineer I have studied statistics and use statistics. But statistics come with limitations and need to be used properly. We should always remember that truism: *“Statistics don’t lie but liars use statistics.” *
For those who do not want to review the statistical charts, here is a summary of the last few years:
Year -----AGI ------- CDC
1997 1,335,000 - 1,186,039
1998 1,319,000 - * 884,273
1999 1,314,000 - * 861,789
2000 1,312,990 - ** 857,475
2001 § 1,303,000 - **853,485
2002 § 1,293,000
2003 §§1,293,000
2004 §§1,293,000
§* AGI estimates*
§§ NRLC Base Figure
Abortion should not be acceptable to our society. Downward trends are a positive step. However, as a society, we need to be clear…Abortion is wrong…Abortion is evil…Abortion ends an innocent life. Abortion hurts children, mothers, fathers, grandparents, siblings, the family, and our communities.
In my state over 35 babies are murdered each and every day, 14,000 per year. One, is one baby too many.
Pax
Here is the link regarding abortion statistics:
nrlc.org/abortion/facts/abortionstats.html
It is pure propaganda to suggest that abortions are higher under Bush than Clinton and that would somehow justify voting for or supporting politicians who are Pro Abortion. The statistics are very rough as the link will show. Many states have stopped reporting data, many states have changed their reporting over time.
I apologize for taking so long to get the link.
As an engineer I have studied statistics and use statistics. But statistics come with limitations and need to be used properly. We should always remember that truism: *“Statistics don’t lie but liars use statistics.” *
For those who do not want to review the statistical charts, here is a summary of the last few years:
Year -----AGI ------- CDC
1997 1,335,000 - 1,186,039
1998 1,319,000 - * 884,273
1999 1,314,000 - * 861,789
2000 1,312,990 - ** 857,475
2001 § 1,303,000 - **853,485
2002 § 1,293,000
2003 §§1,293,000
2004 §§1,293,000
§* AGI estimates*
§§ NRLC Base Figure
- excludes NH, CA, AK, OK
** excludes NH, CA, AK
Abortion should not be acceptable to our society. Downward trends are a positive step. However, as a society, we need to be clear…Abortion is wrong…Abortion is evil…Abortion ends an innocent life. Abortion hurts children, mothers, fathers, grandparents, siblings, the family, and our communities.
In my state over 35 babies are murdered each and every day, 14,000 per year. One, is one baby too many.
Pax
S
shannin
Guest
How can you possibly compare the U.S. occupation in Iraq with the murder of millions of helpless babies…babies being torn from the safety of a mother’s womb and killed? At least President Bush has appointed a Justice that doesn’t want to legislate from the bench. I can just imagine what type of Justice Kerry would have nominated.
I haven’t checked to see if you call yourself a Catholic, but, yes it was a mortal sin for you to vote for Kerry. How dare you say that Kerry wouldn’t have the blood on his hands from (what you call) an unnecessary war? People that support pro-choice candidates have the blood of innocent children on their hands.
You just don’t get it, do you
M
miguel
Guest
vicia3:
vicia3:
vicia3:
vicia3:
Certainly not. Did I say that I was?
vicia3:
A whole lifetime.
vicia3:
I am a sinner in need of God’s mercy. I never claimed to be otherwise. I am horrified by the baby killing in our country. I am horrified that people don’t take it seriously. I am especially horrified that too many of my fellow Catholics don’t take it seriously. (More is expected from those to whom more has been given.)
vicia3:
It also says murderers will not enter. How is it casting stones to remind people, as Jesus did many times, that there is a heaven and a hell? And heaven will not be populated by unrepentant baby killers and their abettors in the voting booth, not if God is just. The grace period for correction is now, in advance of the final judgement. The grinding and nashing of teeth Our Lord spoke of, will come from those who foolishly disregard his ample warnings. Our Lady of Guadalupe, pray for us. Lord have mercy on us.
S
system
Guest
Don’t mistake me, I agree with you about the unrepentent murderers. I am very strong against abortion, birth control, euthenasia, and embryonic stem cell research. I also know for a fact that anyone who votes for someone who has views that support these things is in mortal sin. I was just questioning your charity on the matter. There is a way to talk about it that isn’t aggressive. I can understand your anger, and where it is just, it should be directed tword those who do not correct their actions. That is all I was trying to get at. We should all be fighting this war together, and unfortunatly, there are too many complacent Christians. They have forgotten the teachings of Jesus, or they think that he is out of the times. I hope you were not offended in any way.
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