My journey thus far..... many questions?

[dreamfleur]

Well…quite a long development. As the Reformers were succeeded by others, their successors wanted to look less and less catholic…and started throwing out their catholic roots…so each succeeding generation got farther and farther away from Ancienct Christianity.

Some started to throw out the Mass and instituted their own version of worhsip…that is when prayer took on the form of worship, whereas before, worship was via the mass.

These included throwing out praying to the saints, the different beliefs in baptism, some do not believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist…just for starters.

Here is an article you may want to get time to read:

calledtocommunion.com/2012/08/relics-saints-and-the-assumption-of-mary/

Wow! That’s a lot to take in. I will need time to digest all of this. Thank you.

 

[dreamfleur]

4yrs a convert …from evangelical ecclesial church. I had 7-8 big questions to be answered. I came in via RCIA, having only doubts about Mary’s IC. After 4 years, I now accept IC, but. …I still pray first & always to Christ, the way we Protestants were taught. But, then I simply thank Mary & tell her and my favorite saints ( John, Peter, Paul & David) to help me persevere.

Think about it, we have guardian angels who we can thank for their aid. Also applies to Mary and all Church saints …
So, don’t let Mary factor prevent u becoming Catholic. All will get resolved in due time.

Thank you for your response. It’s funny because I have NO PROBLEM thinking that my guardian angel is right here next to me… yet with Mary it’s different. I’m sure it’s a conditioning thing. I will give it time.

 

[dreamfleur]

I want to address this part of your post since no one else did. I think it’s entirely normal to feel human fear when you are exploring something so new and different. I had LOTS of fear when I came back to the catholic church–and I was RAISED catholic. It threw me for a long time and I kept asking why I was so afraid (basically beating myself up for it, not something I recommend )

But having normal fear does not mean something is not of God. God himself is peace and love, but we may still have normal human emotional reactions. We learn to trust in time and even then we may still FEEL fear but choose to place our trust in God. I think the Holy Spirit is guiding you. It is so good to hear about your journey.

Wow, that helps me feel better. I wouldn’t imagine that you would feel any fear at all. I know my fear is deeply ingrained in the fact of what I was taught as a child growing up in the SDA church. They teach that the Pope is the AntiChrist and well… you can imagine. I almost feel like I am trying to learn something that I shouldn’t (if I mentioned this to other SDA’s they would maybe say I was playing with the dark side), yet when I read the Catechism and see such beautiful interpretation of scripture and life in Christ I feel utterly confused. This is NOT what I expected to find.

So I’m sure my fear is self made. A sort of guilt mixed with fear. I pray that the Holy Spirit guide me and keep me safe throughout this journey. I will place my trust in God and KNOW that whatever I ask He will answer.

 

[pablope]

Wow, that helps me feel better. I wouldn’t imagine that you would feel any fear at all. I know my fear is deeply ingrained in the fact of what I was taught as a child growing up in the SDA church. They teach that the Pope is the AntiChrist and well… you can imagine. I almost feel like I am trying to learn something that I shouldn’t (if I mentioned this to other SDA’s they would maybe say I was playing with the dark side), yet when I read the Catechism and see such beautiful interpretation of scripture and life in Christ I feel utterly confused. This is NOT what I expected to find.

So I’m sure my fear is self made. A sort of guilt mixed with fear. I pray that the Holy Spirit guide me and keep me safe throughout this journey. I will place my trust in God and KNOW that whatever I ask He will answer.

I hope this conversion story can help you relate:

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0088.html

A little while later Gerry called and said, “Listen, I’m a little scared. My friends are a little scared. We ought to really take this seriously. I talked to Doctor John Gerstner, this Harvard-trained Presbyterian, anti-Catholic theologian . He will meet with us as long as we want.” We arranged Gerry, Dr. Gerstner and me for a six hour session, going through the Old Testament in Hebrew, the New Testament in Greek, and the council documents of Church history. At the end of six hours, Gerry and I expected to be completely blown out of the water by this genius. Instead, what we discovered was that the Catholic Church almost doesn’t even need a defense. It’s more like a lion; just let it out of its cage and it takes care of itself. We just presented the Church’s teachings and showed the text in Scripture, and we didn’t feel like he had answered a single one of our questions or objections. In the end we were like, “Wow, what does this mean?” Neither of us knew. The most anti-Catholic seminarians wondering whether God might be a Catholic — we were terrified.

A friend of mine who had heard I was thinking about the Catholic Church called up one day and said: “Do you worship Mary like those Catholics do?” I said, “They don’t worship Mary; they honor Mary.” “Well, what’s the difference?” I said, “Let me explain. When Christ accepted the call from His Father to become a man, He accepted the responsibility to obey the law, the moral law which is summarized in the Ten Commandments. There’s a commandment which reads, ‘Honor your father and mother.’” I said, “Chris, in the original Hebrew, that word “honor,” kaboda, that Hebrew word means to glorify, to bestow whatever glory and honor you have upon your father and mother. Christ fulfilled that law more perfectly than any human by bestowing His glory upon His heavenly Father and by taking His own divine glory and honoring His Mother with it. All we do in the rosary, Chris, is to imitate Christ who honors His Mother with His own glory. We honor her with Christ’s glory.”

 

[Dorothy]

I hope this conversion story can help you relate:

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0088.html

A little while later Gerry called and said, “Listen, I’m a little scared. My friends are a little scared. We ought to really take this seriously. I talked to Doctor John Gerstner, this Harvard-trained Presbyterian, anti-Catholic theologian . He will meet with us as long as we want.” We arranged Gerry, Dr. Gerstner and me for a six hour session, going through the Old Testament in Hebrew, the New Testament in Greek, and the council documents of Church history. At the end of six hours, Gerry and I expected to be completely blown out of the water by this genius. Instead, what we discovered was that the Catholic Church almost doesn’t even need a defense. It’s more like a lion; just let it out of its cage and it takes care of itself. We just presented the Church’s teachings and showed the text in Scripture, and we didn’t feel like he had answered a single one of our questions or objections. In the end we were like, “Wow, what does this mean?” Neither of us knew. The most anti-Catholic seminarians wondering whether God might be a Catholic — we were terrified.

A friend of mine who had heard I was thinking about the Catholic Church called up one day and said: “Do you worship Mary like those Catholics do?” I said, “They don’t worship Mary; they honor Mary.” “Well, what’s the difference?” I said, “Let me explain. When Christ accepted the call from His Father to become a man, He accepted the responsibility to obey the law, the moral law which is summarized in the Ten Commandments. There’s a commandment which reads, ‘Honor your father and mother.’” I said, “Chris, in the original Hebrew, that word “honor,” kaboda, that Hebrew word means to glorify, to bestow whatever glory and honor you have upon your father and mother. Christ fulfilled that law more perfectly than any human by bestowing His glory upon His heavenly Father and by taking His own divine glory and honoring His Mother with it. All we do in the rosary, Chris, is to imitate Christ who honors His Mother with His own glory. We honor her with Christ’s glory.”

Thank you for an excellent post!

 

[dreamfleur]

I hope this conversion story can help you relate:

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0088.html

A little while later Gerry called and said, “Listen, I’m a little scared. My friends are a little scared. We ought to really take this seriously. I talked to Doctor John Gerstner, this Harvard-trained Presbyterian, anti-Catholic theologian . He will meet with us as long as we want.” We arranged Gerry, Dr. Gerstner and me for a six hour session, going through the Old Testament in Hebrew, the New Testament in Greek, and the council documents of Church history. At the end of six hours, Gerry and I expected to be completely blown out of the water by this genius. Instead, what we discovered was that the Catholic Church almost doesn’t even need a defense. It’s more like a lion; just let it out of its cage and it takes care of itself. We just presented the Church’s teachings and showed the text in Scripture, and we didn’t feel like he had answered a single one of our questions or objections. In the end we were like, “Wow, what does this mean?” Neither of us knew. The most anti-Catholic seminarians wondering whether God might be a Catholic — we were terrified.

A friend of mine who had heard I was thinking about the Catholic Church called up one day and said: “Do you worship Mary like those Catholics do?” I said, “They don’t worship Mary; they honor Mary.” “Well, what’s the difference?” I said, “Let me explain. When Christ accepted the call from His Father to become a man, He accepted the responsibility to obey the law, the moral law which is summarized in the Ten Commandments. There’s a commandment which reads, ‘Honor your father and mother.’” I said, “Chris, in the original Hebrew, that word “honor,” kaboda, that Hebrew word means to glorify, to bestow whatever glory and honor you have upon your father and mother. Christ fulfilled that law more perfectly than any human by bestowing His glory upon His heavenly Father and by taking His own divine glory and honoring His Mother with it. All we do in the rosary, Chris, is to imitate Christ who honors His Mother with His own glory. We honor her with Christ’s glory.”

Thank you so much ! I read through Scott Hahn’s conversion story and I totally understand. Last night as I wept I wasn’t sure how to feel… I kept asking God to forgive me if I had offended him. I see now that this is totally normal given the background I have. Again, thank you so much. I will look into more of Scott Hahn’s books.

 

[ericc]

But suddenly I started to smell roses, there were no roses anywhere. I tried to ignore it (because I read what it means) but I continued to smell them even in the car driving back home. I told my husband and he said that smell was associated with Mary.

It must have been a tremendous honour to be touched by the Blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[pablope]

I .

My journey of curiosity began this Lent season. If something so wonderful as this is being practiced and celebrated elsewhere why am I not a part of it?

 

[guanophore]

I
YESTERDAY while at my first mass I smelled a sweet fragrance in the church however I figured it was just the smell of the church. During the Eucharist I had to take my daughter to the restroom (which is where I saw SO MANY people standing in the back adoringly waiting to take the sacrament). I took my daughter to the restroom and decided to walk through the garden with her until mass was over. We saw many statues of Mary there. But suddenly I started to smell roses, there were no roses anywhere. I tried to ignore it (because I read what it means) but I continued to smell them even in the car driving back home. I told my husband and he said that smell was associated with Mary.

My questions are many. But I feel I have come such a long way in these past couple of weeks. I still feel fear. I know God is a God of peace and love, not fear. I want to know HIS will and where I belong. I am wondering if this is normal? Please pray for me.

Yes, this is one of the ways Mary reaches out to us. I have smelled roses too, ,on more than one occasion. Once it was so powerful I opened my eyes to look, so sure someone had walked by with a large boquet.

Just pray that Jesus will help you to relate to His mother as He would have you to do.

 

[brb3]

I hadn’t heard before of fragrance of Roses associated with Mary. I will pay attention to this when at Mass …to see if I notice their fragrance when at Mary’s niche / kneeler.

Whats the tradition on this ?

 

[dreamfleur]

Thank you all for your responses.

I have another question. How is one supposed to pray to Mary? I suppose it would have to be a vocal prayer for her to hear you, correct? Because as far as I know the only One that can read our minds is God.
Also, you’ll have to forgive my “ignorance” as far as saints and Mary because SDA teaches “soul sleep” so there are no saints. But is Mary different from the Saints? Can the Saints or Mary hear more than one prayer at a time? Since they were human do they get different abilities once they are Saints?

 

[brb3]

Thank you all for your responses.

I have another question. How is one supposed to pray to Mary? I suppose it would have to be a vocal prayer for her to hear you, correct? Because as far as I know the only One that can read our minds is God.
Also, you’ll have to forgive my “ignorance” as far as saints and Mary because SDA teaches “soul sleep” so there are no saints. But is Mary different from the Saints? Can the Saints or Mary hear more than one prayer at a time? Since they were human do they get different abilities once they are Saints?

On soul-sleep… Paul in his Epistles taught “absent from the body …present with the Lord”

Christ taught that he is the “God of the Living” …not the dead. ----- said in reference to David’s Psalms.

 

[brb3]

On Mary …

Pray first to Christ as u are custom too. Then, when finished …just say a few words to Mary in thanks to her, for being Mother of Jesus, and for Christ having given her to us as our Spiritual Mom, at foot of Cross. Tell her to help you know Jesus better & to be your 2nd mom always. Remind her, (and yourself), you only worship the Lord, her Lord and Son.
This way, you will grow close to her as a saint in heaven …who is in that “great cloud of witnesses” in heaven, that Paul taught us to appreciate, in his Epistles. Also, pick a personal favorite saint in Bible, who you relate to, and also talk to them …asking them to be on watch for you in times of trials, etc.

 

[steve_b]

[snip] for space

Most everything I have read I find to clarify my questions instead of confusing me more. But, I am having trouble with Mary. I have told my husband this and he was raised with Mary so. he doesn’t understand. I have dug deep and looked into how she was the daughter of St.Anne and the story behind her preparation and being a virgin brought up for God’s special purpose. It makes sense to me, the immaculate conception and the verses in Revelation also make sense to point to her. Protestants make her out to be just a “vessel” but* I can see that being the mother of God is not something to be taken lightly*. I still am having questions though. I told my husband, “I don’t think I could ever pray to Mary”.
YESTERDAY while at my first mass I smelled a sweet fragrance in the church however I figured it was just the smell of the church. During the Eucharist I had to take my daughter to the restroom (which is where I saw SO MANY people standing in the back adoringly waiting to take the sacrament). I took my daughter to the restroom and decided to walk through the garden with her until mass was over. We saw many statues of Mary there. But suddenly I started to smell roses, there were no roses anywhere. I tried to ignore it (because I read what it means) but I continued to smell them even in the car driving back home. I told my husband and he said that smell was associated with Mary.

My questions are many. But I feel I have come such a long way in these past couple of weeks. I still feel fear. I know God is a God of peace and love, not fear. I want to know HIS will and where I belong. I am wondering if this is normal? Please pray for me.

Thanks for your story. Re: Mary, you won’t go wrong honoring and loving her, because Jesus honors and loves His mom more than our puny minds can comprehend.

Prayers ascending for you

 

[steve_b]

On soul-sleep… Paul in his Epistles taught “absent from the body …present with the Lord”

May I make a comment.

2 Cor 5:8

We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

It’s probably one of the most misquoted passages by Protestants who hold the OSAS idea… Paul is stating a preference, not an absolute.

Re: soul sleep, better passages to use are

1 Peter 3:19, Jesus preaches to souls in prison those since the time of Noah. Obviously they aren’t asleep
Lk 16:19-31 richman & lazarus. Abraham, Lazarus and the richman are very much alert. And Jesus is telling the story
Mt 17:3 Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah during transfiguration. They aren’t asleep
Rv 5:8, 6:10, 7:10, souls in heaven are NOT sleeping
Heb 12:1 Those that died are more alive than we are, they surround us like a great cloud of witnesses

brb:

Christ taught that he is the “God of the Living” …not the dead. ----- said in reference to David’s Psalms.

That’s a good one also

 

[snarflemike]

…I I told my husband, “I don’t think I could ever pray to Mary”…

Well, as a Catholic you would not have to pray to Mary. You would, however, have to give your assent to what the Church teaches about Mary - in particular, that she was without sin, by the special grace of God.

But consider this. If you were in the home of Mary and Jesus in 30AD, in the presence of the woman whom God had chosen (had asked!) to become the mother of his Son, who had lived in the presence of the Incarnate God for 30 years and knew him better than any other human did or ever would, would you not ask this woman to pray for you to her son? Would you not ask her to remember you to her son?

I bet you would.

 

[Southern]

Thank you all for your responses.

I have another question. How is one supposed to pray to Mary? I suppose it would have to be a vocal prayer for her to hear you, correct? Because as far as I know the only One that can read our minds is God.
Also, you’ll have to forgive my “ignorance” as far as saints and Mary because SDA teaches “soul sleep” so there are no saints. But is Mary different from the Saints? Can the Saints or Mary hear more than one prayer at a time? Since they were human do they get different abilities once they are Saints?

For all things are possible through God! Just talk to her. I especially like the post further down about her living with Jesus and knowing him better than anyone. Just as our loved ones and all those in Heaven can see and hear us so does our Blessed Mother. She is Full of Grace! And the Saints have what the Father has because the Father says ALL that I have is yours in his kingdom. What Greater joy is there!!!

 

[dreamfleur]

Thank you. These insights help me. I don’t have trouble with her being The Mother of God, full of grace, I even can understand that it would make the most sense that she was set apart for a special purpose ( as seen in the Protoevangelium of James). It is just a new and foreign feeling that I get thinking of praying to her.

I again will ask:

• Do Catholics believe Mary can be prayed to silently? or does is have to be vocal?
• How do the saints hear everyone praying at the same time?
• Is God the ONLY one who can read our minds/hearts?

These are technicalities I know, but I’m struggling with understanding these fine points.
Thanks.

 

[snarflemike]

Thank you. These insights help me. I don’t have trouble with her being The Mother of God, full of grace, I even can understand that it would make the most sense that she was set apart for a special purpose ( as seen in the Protoevangelium of James). It is just a new and foreign feeling that I get thinking of praying to her.

I again will ask:

• Do Catholics believe Mary can be prayed to silently? or does is have to be vocal?
• How do the saints hear everyone praying at the same time?
• Is God the ONLY one who can read our minds/hearts?

These are technicalities I know, but I’m struggling with understanding these fine points.
Thanks.

The saints “hear” and know whatever God empowers them to hear and know. They have no power apart from God.

Keep in mind Rev. 5:13

And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!”

Here is the writer, not yet perfected in heaven, who nonetheless hears EVERY creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea. Surely to hear the prayers, spoken or unspoken, of a few million people is nothing compared to that.

It’s also important to contemplate why God would grant such powers to the saints. It is because God is love, and he delights in sharing all good things with those whom he loves. He allows us to hear the requests of others and to pray for them, not because he needs our help (ha!), but because he wants to share that which is good. Just as, for example, he doesn’t need us to preach the gospel, he could do it all by himself. Rather, he allows us to share in the spreading of the Good News simply because he loves us.

 

[dreamfleur]

And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, "To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!"

I understand this as being in unison like everyone chanting it together in adoration.

The CCC states there are three different kinds of prayer: I Vocal Prayer; II Meditation; and III Contemplative Prayer.

Are prayers to Mary to be done with Vocal Prayer?

I ask this question because (just as an example): If I am praying a Contemplative prayer I KNOW that God can hear me but NOBODY else can (including Satan). If Satan a heavenly created being, one of the former angels cannot hear me, because ONLY GOD can hear what I think in my mind then the saints being former humans cannot either, right?

Only God is ALL HEARING, ALL KNOWING, ALL SEEING.
Am I mistaken?