My Local TLM

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mattheus09

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I have attended a bi-monthly TLM in my local area for a fews years now and it has been by the book. However, they have started to implement some changes into the Mass starting in the summer of this year. The epistle (read by one of the altar boys) and Gospel (chanted by the priest) are only in English facing the people, I much prefer the way it was done before. The priest doesn’t privately say the parts that are sung by the choir (the creed, sanctus, agnus dei and even some of the propers), he chants the secret prayer aloud as well as the doxology at the end of the canon. We all sing the Pater Noster together and he chants the prayer after the Pater Noster aloud. He omits the psalm (I think 42) at the prayers at the foot of the altar and the Last Gospel (could this be an advent thing?)

New changes on the the 1st Sunday of Advent included: the priest changed the prayer said when administering communion. He now says “Corpus Christi” and we are supposed to respond “Amen”. We know have prayers of the faithful after the “oremus” of the offertory.

Is this correct? Can he do this? The congregation is split half and half in regards to these changes. Is there any recourse that I can have? I have talk to those in-charge of the “latin mass community” and they claim bishop, as wells as the chaplain for the latin mass community, supports these “minor” adaptations and they say that these changes are permitted under “official documents” and that benedictine communities follow this as well. Is there anything I can do? Or should I just go to the FSSP about a half an hour away where none of these changes have been enacted.
 
If you’ve got all these changes done, it’s no longer a TLM but a Paul VI’s Mass that is very traditional.

Because the TLM cannot be changed as we use the Old Missal and all it demands.
I’ve read that on a SSPX newspaper.
 
But it isn’t a Novus Ordo though. I can follow along using my 1962 Missal.
 
It appears if your local TLM is using some 1965 adaptations.
 
mattheus09 said:
But it isn’t a Novus Ordo though. I can follow along using my 1962 Missal.
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It sounds like they are slowly making this Mass a Novus Ordo Mass in Latin. The omission of prayers and requiring you to respond with “Amen” prior to receiving Holy Communion are a concern.

If you prefer the TLM, I would go to the FSSP like you mentioned. Consider yourself fortunate to have access to one!
 
mattheus09 said:
I have attended a bi-monthly TLM in my local area for a fews years now and it has been by the book. However, they have started to implement some changes into the Mass starting in the summer of this year. The epistle (read by one of the altar boys) and Gospel (chanted by the priest) are only in English facing the people, I much prefer the way it was done before.
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This is permitted by Summorum Pontificum.
mattheus09 said:
The priest doesn’t privately say the parts that are sung by the choir (the creed, sanctus, agnus dei and even some of the propers), he chants the secret prayer aloud as well as the doxology at the end of the canon. We all sing the Pater Noster together and he chants the prayer after the Pater Noster aloud. He omits the psalm (I think 42) at the prayers at the foot of the altar and the Last Gospel (could this be an advent thing?)

New changes on the the 1st Sunday of Advent included: the priest changed the prayer said when administering communion. He now says “Corpus Christi” and we are supposed to respond “Amen”. We know have prayers of the faithful after the “oremus” of the offertory.

Is this correct? Can he do this? The congregation is split half and half in regards to these changes. Is there any recourse that I can have? I have talk to those in-charge of the “latin mass community” and they claim bishop, as wells as the chaplain for the latin mass community, supports these “minor” adaptations and they say that these changes are permitted under “official documents” and that benedictine communities follow this as well. Is there anything I can do? Or should I just go to the FSSP about a half an hour away where none of these changes have been enacted.
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Although it was (and is) rarely done, (at least in the US) per the terms of de musica sacra of 1958, it was permitted that the Pater be sung by all. Taken all together, though, it sounds like this priest (or the bishop?) is using the short-lived (and ill-fated) “interim Missal of 1965” which is not permitted under the terms of Summorum Pontficum.
 
So, is there anything I can do? Is there a place that I can call or write to see if this is permitted?
 
What did the priest say when you politely asked him about it?
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The same thing as what the people in charge of the Latin Mass Community said. These things are in official documents in the 60s and that the PCED has confirmed the use of changes in 1965 but not those of 1967 in certain organizations dedicated to the TLM.
 
mattheus09 said:
So, is there anything I can do? Is there a place that I can call or write to see if this is permitted?
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Assuming that you asked the priest already, you could call the Chancery (probably the VG’s office would be best) and ask, but the problem you might have is if the bishop indeed supports this. If, in fact, the chancery says “yeah, what he’s doing is ok” you could pursue the matter with the PCED. The text of Summorum Pontificum is very clear that what was never abrogated and may continue to be used is the Missale Romanum of 1962, not the “interim Missal” of 1965 or anything else.
 
mattheus09 said:
Does that mean that changes are coming to TLMs?
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Absolutely not. The priest mentioned in this thread is making these changes all by himself, and have nothing to do with the TLM.

I try to attend a daily TLM here as much as possible, and it is completely by the book, and we have different priests doing it all the time. I can’t imagine any of the priests who celebrate our Masses making any of these changes.

I feel very bad for the OP. I would be in tears if I saw these kind of changes. It’s not the TLM anymore.
 
I’m not saying that the Mass isn’t valid. I am saying it is not the TLM. That is the tragedy of it.
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The what is it? It isn’t the Novus Ordo. And it seems from the OP that the Order of the Mass almost exactly follows the 1962 missal. It seems to be the TLM used in 1965-1969.
 
Crusader90 said:
The what is it? It isn’t the Novus Ordo. And it seems from the OP that the Order of the Mass almost exactly follows the 1962 missal. It seems to be the TLM used in 1965-1969.
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The transitional Mass from 1965-1969 is not the TLM. Close, but no cigar. It is already starting to lose the beauty of the TLM. Maybe it’s okay for some, but I wouldn’t be happy with it.
 
mattheus09 said:
I have attended a bi-monthly TLM in my local area for a fews years now and it has been by the book. However, they have started to implement some changes into the Mass starting in the summer of this year. The epistle (read by one of the altar boys) and Gospel (chanted by the priest) are only in English facing the people, I much prefer the way it was done before. The priest doesn’t privately say the parts that are sung by the choir (the creed, sanctus, agnus dei and even some of the propers), he chants the secret prayer aloud as well as the doxology at the end of the canon. We all sing the Pater Noster together and he chants the prayer after the Pater Noster aloud. He omits the psalm (I think 42) at the prayers at the foot of the altar and the Last Gospel (could this be an advent thing?)

New changes on the the 1st Sunday of Advent included: the priest changed the prayer said when administering communion. He now says “Corpus Christi” and we are supposed to respond “Amen”. We know have prayers of the faithful after the “oremus” of the offertory.

Is this correct? Can he do this? The congregation is split half and half in regards to these changes. Is there any recourse that I can have? I have talk to those in-charge of the “latin mass community” and they claim bishop, as wells as the chaplain for the latin mass community, supports these “minor” adaptations and they say that these changes are permitted under “official documents” and that benedictine communities follow this as well. Is there anything I can do? Or should I just go to the FSSP about a half an hour away where none of these changes have been enacted.
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Kyrie eleison
He is introducing novelty into the Mass. Contact Una Voce and they will tell you how to stop it. They probably have a form letter to send to Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei”

unavoce.org/
ecclesiadei.org/Information.htm

Don’t cut and run. Stand up for the Liturgy !
 
I contacted the chancery. They said that the PCED said priests (even FSSP priests) may use the 1965 changes. They told me the FSSP in my diocese does not use those changes, but the diocesan Mass will incorporate those changes and that they have been permitted by the Holy See in various letters.
 
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