My mariage might not be valid. What to do now?

[bigflower]

I posted this in “Ask an Apologist” section. But I’m posting it here too, because I am interested in what others might think. I hope that’s allowed. I just really have never encountered a situation like this, and haven’t even been able to find much about it by researching it online. Thanks in advance for any insight or advice.

My husband and I, both Catholic, married in the Church 3 years ago. Long story short:

• Our marriage is not fully consummated. He suffers severe anxiety during intercourse and has never been able to climax with me.
• He lied to me before we got married about his porn habit. I actually asked him once. He didn’t answer, but he gave me the impression that he didn’t. As it turns out, not only does he view porn, it seems to be in the realm of addiction.
• He is the survivor of childhood sexual abuse (several years of incest), which has basically messed him up sexually.

If it weren’t for these facts, we would actually have a very nice marriage. He is good to me in every other way. We love each other and are in love. We share a great deal of emotional intimacy, affection, and general kindness. Even though his lying has hurt me and shaken me to my core, I believe this relationship is worth saving. I realize the things I listed above are all related and that one thing causes the other. My husband is remorseful and wants to make things right. He has started psychological treatment and our goal is to consummate our marriage. He is mostly off porn and has been for much of our marriage. He seems to slip up about once every few months at this point. I believe him because the only reason I know about any of it is because he told me. I’ve never seen evidence of any of this myself.

Even though I have forgiven him, I did not know all of this when we married, so I’m feeling as though our marriage is invalid. Assuming that he experiences healing and becomes able to have intercourse, will we need to say our wedding vows again? I am bashful to speak to my pastor about this, because I don’t want to ruin my husband’s reputation. I might ask our pastor to refer us to a priest the two of us don’t know. Is there anything else I we/I should be doing?

 

[ValPal]

Your married in Catholic form, and your marriage is presumed valid until proven otherwise.

Our marriage is not fully consummated. He suffers severe anxiety during intercourse and has never been able to climax with me.

That’s actually an interesting point. I have no idea if the marriage is considered consummated if the couple has sex, yet the man doesn’t climax. The marriage is still considered valid, because consummation is not required for validity. However, consummation determines whether or not a marriage is/isn’t indissoluble.

He is the survivor of childhood sexual abuse (several years of incest), which has basically messed him up sexually.

I have serious concern about this issue. You stated that he is receiving psychological counseling, and I hope it is addressing this. If not, I strongly recommend he seek help for this very serious issue. This issue alone can be the cause of all the other problems.

 

[Maria_in_Ramona]

Dear Big Flower: I am so sorry that this has happened to you. Don’t waste your life in this situation.

If the counselling does not help, it’s quite likely that you could get your marriage annulled because you were not fully informed of these serious issues when you got married and your husband was not fully able to enter into a marriage because of his porn addiction, his past abuse and inability to perform. sexually.

If you decide to explore this option, you begin that process with your parish pastor.

 

[Ruthie_again]

Copied and pasted:
I had surgery on my left hand on Oct. 11th, which means I must hunt and peck with my right hand. That is so slow that I plan to desert my usual grammar and spelling for the next few days, until I can use my left hand a little. Thank you all for your patience!

I MAY BE WRONG, so verify!

i think that your problems with consummation do not invalidate your marriage UNLESS he knew in advance that he couldn’t. since he has tried, sounds like he didn’t know. i think this covers the abuse he got, too.

as for the porn - well, maybe. if you told him, directly and strongly, that you would never marry him if he looked at porn, then he wed you deceptively.

YOU NEED EXPERT HELP. if AAA doesn’t answer, go 2 yr priest. if unable, call yr diocese and ask for an adviser’s opinion.

those r tricky questions. very difficult.

:hug3:

 

[bigflower]

as for the porn - well, maybe. if you told him, directly and strongly, that you would never marry him if he looked at porn, then he wed you deceptively.

I do believe he deceived me regarding porn. I didn’t say it in those exact words, but I made my intolerance of it clear on many occasions. I actually think part of the reason he didn’t tell me was he thought I would dump him on the spot if he did.
I remember a phone conversation when we were seriously dating. I asked him, “do you look at porn?” He just started stuttering and not really saying anything. He comes off as a very pious person, and I thought he was uncomfortable with the question because he was uncomfortable with porn. Thinking I was making him uncomfortable, I dropped the subject and didn’t push him to answer. I know at other times I made it clear how offensive porn is to me.
And I’m almost positive that I told him about a conversation I had with my dad right before I met him. I thought this conversation was funny at the time. I was telling my dad how I wouldn’t be with a man who’s into porn. My dad started telling me how my standards are too high and I’m just going to end up alone. I told my dad, “then I’ll be alone. But I’m not going to be with a man who’s into porn.” I might ask my husband if I told him about this, but it’s hugely likely that I did.

He did not know about his inability to perform before we were married. His only sexual experience before marriage was his abuse. He wasn’t obligated to tell me of that because it was in the past. He did not realize how much it affected him in so many ways, sexual and otherwise.

p.s. I hope your hand feels better, Ruthie.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Even though I have forgiven him, I did not know all of this when we married, so I’m feeling as though our marriage is invalid. Assuming that he experiences healing and becomes able to have intercourse, will we need to say our wedding vows again? I am bashful to speak to my pastor about this, because I don’t want to ruin my husband’s reputation. I might ask our pastor to refer us to a priest the two of us don’t know. Is there anything else I we/I should be doing?

You need to see a psychologist of your own who has experience treating adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. I say this as a survivor. Some things can’t be fixed. Maybe someday you’ll be able to consummate your marriage, I don’t know. It sounds like you love him and he you. But you need, I believe, to understand just how seriously this kind of trauma affects the person and prepare for a life where you will probably never have anything that can be described as a normal sex life.

About your marriage. We aren’t experts, but your Diocese has a set of priests who deal with annulments. I would be very surprised if your marriage is valid at this point. But I’d make an appointment with one of these canon lawyers and discuss it. Under civil law you can probably get an annulment, also, though it sounds as if this is not a direction you are considering at the moment.

God bless you both abundantly.

 

[bigflower]

You need to see a psychologist of your own who has experience treating adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. I say this as a survivor. Some things can’t be fixed. Maybe someday you’ll be able to consummate your marriage, I don’t know. It sounds like you love him and he you. But you need, I believe, to understand just how seriously this kind of trauma affects the person and prepare for a life where you will probably never have anything that can be described as a normal sex life. .

I realize this is a possibility. Right now, I’m feeling as though he does deserve the chance to receive treatment to see if it helps. No one has ever fought for him before. People have just always taken from him at his expense. The ironic thing about this situation is that I consider myself to have a low sex drive. I would be fine with even very rare intercourse, because he shows his love in many other ways. It’s been emotionally exhausting to be so concerned about sex all the time. I have come to accept that our life together isn’t fairy tale. If he can gain back even a little of what was stolen from him, I can live with that.

Before this, I didn’t know it was possible to feel so many different emotions at the same time. While I’m hurt and angry for myself, I also feel a lot of anger for him. Some incredibly disgusting and twisted things were done to him for many years. The person who did these things to him was another child. It was not “sex play,” or sexual exploration, or experimentation. It seems unimaginable that a child would have made these acts up, so it is almost certain that she was a victim of abuse by someone else, although he doesn’t know who that would be.

And yes, I am seeing a new psychologist for myself this week, who has full coverage under my insurance. I don’t think we are even at the point where couples counseling would do much good until we both have treatment alone.

About your marriage. We aren’t experts, but your Diocese has a set of priests who deal with annulments. I would be very surprised if your marriage is valid at this point. But I’d make an appointment with one of these canon lawyers and discuss it. Under civil law you can probably get an annulment, also, though it sounds as if this is not a direction you are considering at the moment.

I’m not leaving him today. I can say that much. I suppose I’m trying to figure out what is my threshold in order for me to give up on this whole thing. In every other important way we are living as husband and wife, and actually have an enjoyable life together.

 

[EasterJoy]

Can. 1084 §1. Antecedent and perpetual impotence to have intercourse, whether on the part of the man or the woman, whether absolute or relative, nullifies marriage by its very nature.

§2. If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null.

**Can. 1098 **A person contracts invalidly who enters into a marriage deceived by malice, perpetrated to obtain consent, concerning some quality of the other partner which by its very nature can gravely disturb the partnership of conjugal life.

Talk to your pastor about this, but as far as I know, you are not bound to seek a declaration of nullity at the time you become aware of a deception perpetrated to obtain consent. You don’t have a duty to avoid marital relations until you obtain a convalidation, as you would if the impediment were a possible prior valid marriage or something of that sort.

You have a serious situation on your hands, and deserve to have the wisest, most discrete, and most personal advice you can find. If your pastor isn’t it, call your local chancery office and keep knocking until you find it.

 

[maltmom]

I will be praying for your situation.

 

[Julia_Mae]

I realize this is a possibility. Right now, I’m feeling as though he does deserve the chance to receive treatment to see if it helps. No one has ever fought for him before. People have just always taken from him at his expense. The ironic thing about this situation is that I consider myself to have a low sex drive. I would be fine with even very rare intercourse, because he shows his love in many other ways. It’s been emotionally exhausting to be so concerned about sex all the time. I have come to accept that our life together isn’t fairy tale. If he can gain back even a little of what was stolen from him, I can live with that.

Before this, I didn’t know it was possible to feel so many different emotions at the same time. While I’m hurt and angry for myself, I also feel a lot of anger for him. Some incredibly disgusting and twisted things were done to him for many years. The person who did these things to him was another child. It was not “sex play,” or sexual exploration, or experimentation. It seems unimaginable that a child would have made these acts up, so it is almost certain that she was a victim of abuse by someone else, although he doesn’t know who that would be.

And yes, I am seeing a new psychologist for myself this week, who has full coverage under my insurance. I don’t think we are even at the point where couples counseling would do much good until we both have treatment alone.

You sound to me like a smart savvy person doing what can be done for you both.

My most serious concern is that he was using the porn to repress any urges he may have had instilled in him to become an abuser, himself, so often the result of these things. I think it’s best to always be as open as possible about the discussions and issues. I have great sympathy for you both and I’m glad he has someone who is sticking by him. If his abuse didn’t occur for too long a time, he has a much brighter hope of being able to resolve the issues. I’m glad you are taking care of yourself around this.

 

[bigflower]

§2. If the impediment of impotence is doubtful, whether by a doubt about the law or a doubt about a fact, a marriage must not be impeded nor, while the doubt remains, declared null.

Thanks for your post, EasterJoy. This part especially puts my mind at ease.

And thanks, everyone, for all of your kind words and help. It can be very isolating because I can’t talk to anyone in my life about this. Saturday night, I actually went to a support group called S-anon. It seems like it’s modeled after al-anon, but it’s for people who have loved ones with sexual addictions.

 

[Maria_in_Ramona]

Dear BigFlower, I commend you for both going to counseling. But you cannot save him. These are very difficult issues to 'fix". I don’t know what state you are in, but Under California law, you would be able to obtain an annullment (no divorce necessary), if the marriage has not been consumated.

You sound like a devout young Catholic woman who would want children. This would be best taken care of sooner rather than later (in other words how many years of your life/fertility are you willing to put into this bad situation). He had to know about his issues prior to marriage. You were decieved and placed in this bad situation by his lack of candor. fyi, for some background on my advice—I am a retired California lawyer and judge. Take care of yourself. Nobody will fault you and if they do, they are wrong.

Time is of the essence.

 

[Maria_in_Ramona]

p.s. Something is terribly wrong if you feel you have to keep his terrible secrets. You should speak to your parents, friends, priest about your needs, his addictions and your lack of a real marriage. I’m concerned about YOU at this point. His problems have isolated you in a weird fake marriage.

 

[Irishmom2]

Don’t waste your life in this situation.

If the counselling does not help, it’s quite likely that you could get your marriage annulled because you were not fully informed of these serious issues when you got married and your husband was not fully able to enter into a marriage because of his porn addiction, his past abuse and inability to perform. sexually.

But you cannot save him. These are very difficult issues to 'fix". I don’t know what state you are in, but Under California law, you would be able to obtain an annullment (no divorce necessary), if the marriage has not been consumated.

You sound like a devout young Catholic woman who would want children. This would be best taken care of sooner rather than later (in other words how many years of your life/fertility are you willing to put into this bad situation). He had to know about his issues prior to marriage. You were decieved and placed in this bad situation by his lack of candor. fyi, for some background on my advice—I am a retired California lawyer and judge. Take care of yourself. Nobody will fault you and if they do, they are wrong.

Time is of the essence.

p.s. Something is terribly wrong if you feel you have to keep his terrible secrets. You should speak to your parents, friends, priest about your needs, his addictions and your lack of a real marriage. I’m concerned about YOU at this point. His problems have isolated you in a weird fake marriage.

You seem to have taken this thread on as if it is some kind of cruusade or mission to get this woman, that loves her husband, to get a divorce as soon as possible. Some of your comments were insensitive and thoughless and probably hurtful as welI. I do not think your comments are charitable or helpful, other than when you said to talk to a priest.

 

[bigflower]

In defense of Maria Ramona, these are all things I need to consider, and have been considering. I have asked myself many times how many of my fertile years is this worth? I was just shy of 31 when we married. I remember thinking what a great age that was to start trying for children. I had a degree of maturity, while still being young and vibrant. I thought we could have children right away, but not feel the pressure to rush. Now I’m 34. Knowing more details than I could possibly post in one thread, I have hope for his healing, but the reality is that it could take several years. It’s heartbreaking watching everyone around us have babies.

For my own sanity, I am not telling anyone we know right now. I’m not protecting him, but protecting myself. This situation is so heavy that I need to make every decision regarding what I am going to do. And I would not want my family or friends pressuring me to do anything. I have told a few hand-picked friends a few of the details of what we are going through. It was along the lines of telling them we are having sexual problems because he was abused as a child.

 

[Julia_Mae]

For my own sanity, I am not telling anyone we know right now. I’m not protecting him, but protecting myself. This situation is so heavy that I need to make every decision regarding what I am going to do. And I would not want my family or friends pressuring me to do anything. I have told a few hand-picked friends a few of the details of what we are going through. It was along the lines of telling them we are having sexual problems because he was abused as a child.

You’re doing great. If I was your mom, and I’m way old enough to be, I’d be very proud of you.

I am, anyway.

 

[Maria_in_Ramona]

Dear Big Flower: I am praying for you and will light a candle at Church.

Sadly, I am aware of somewhat similar situation many years ago, so your message struck a chord. My friend regrets staying 15 years in a “marriage” that was never consumated. It turned out she was a "beard’ for a gay guy, but she only figured that out after years of excuses and lies. She kept up appearances for him because she was embarrassed and didn’t tell anyone. After years of this, the marriage was annulled and she never had children. She regrets not leaving sooner because she gave up her chance at a real marriage and family.

Irish Mom, I wasn’t trying to be harsh. She was getting lots of good advice from others. I was trying to offer a different perspective focusing on my concern for HER. She shouldn’t feel she needs to keep secrets from her own priest, her parents, and close friends. That alone should tell her something is terribly wrong.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Bigflower,

I want to mention another very unpleasant issue, in case it hasn’t been considered yet (of course, you may well have thought of this already). I don’t know if there are exact numbers, but a large percentage of child molesters were molested themselves as children. This information does not tell us how many people who are molested go on to abuse others - we only get the reverse. So I have no idea what those odds are, but I would be concerned. Obviously he has been affected deeply by being abused, and it appears as though he has not faced his past in a healthy way. So he is using prn - have you seen the images? Are they “normal?” I hate to say that, because even “normal” prn is deviant and a gateway to more problems, but keep in mind that the world of prn is full of much more deviant stuff that could indicate more than just a problem being able to consummate with his wife. And like I said, even if his prn use has always been of the “typical” variety, given his history, I would still be concerned. He is seeking out unacceptable ways to find the pleasure that he isn’t capable of finding in a normal conjugal relationship. How far will this seeking go? Could it result in hurting others? Acting out some of what was done to him? Etc. I would not be comfortable bringing children into his direct care without knowing that he has dealt with his past, and that he has dealt with his current sexuality issues. I would definitely insist on counseling for him to work through these issues for the safety of your future children, should you stay together. I am sorry you and he are suffering. Prayers for you both.

 

[EasterJoy]

p.s. Something is terribly wrong if you feel you have to keep his terrible secrets. You should speak to your parents, friends, priest about your needs, his addictions and your lack of a real marriage. I’m concerned about YOU at this point. His problems have isolated you in a weird fake marriage.

It is normal to keep sexual secrets within a marriage. Those are intensely private issues. You are right that she ought to have someone to talk to, I think a priest or someone with a professional compulsion to keep confidentiality is a great idea, but she should not feel bad about being discrete concerning whether to air this particular problem with anyone else. Many people, when given information this sensitive, find it too sensational to keep it a secret, and the harm done cannot be undone. I think she’s wise to choose her confidants concerning this matter very carefully.

 

[Maria_in_Ramona]

Big Flower:

ThyKingdomCome makes a really insightful point. If there is child pornography involved, that is a very serious crime for which he could go to jail. It would also show a prediliction that would endanger any children he comes in contact with (including your own if you ever have any). I am a retired Juvenile Court Judge and have seen these type of cases. These are very intractible problems.

On your original post, you indicated that you couldn’t speak to your priest because you didn’t want to ruin your husband’s reputation. But you need to take care of you too, and you need to be able to speak to someone–another priest maybe?

You also mentioned specifically telling your father before marriage that one non-negotiable for you was porn and that you feel your husband lied to you about that addiction. If you have such a great relationship with your Dad that you could discuss this topic a few years ago, maybe he is someone you could speak to now in confidence as you find yourself in a group for family members of people who have sexual addictions?

I think these Forums are fine but you need to speak to people who know you and can help you.