My Marriage is not Sacramental?

[bgic]

I heard this morning on the radio a priest explaining that if both people in a marriage were baptised then the marriage is sacremental.

My wife is not baptised. She’s a Christian Scientist (this is killing me by the way). I am Roman Catholic. Our marriage was co-officiated by a protestant pastor and a catholic priest. Is my marriage sacramental?

 

[NotWorthy]

I heard this morning on the radio a priest explaining that if both people in a marriage were baptised then the marriage is sacremental.

My wife is not baptised. She’s a Christian Scientist (this is killing me by the way). I am Roman Catholic. Our marriage was co-officiated by a protestant pastor and a catholic priest. Is my marriage sacramental?

What did your priest say? It seems he should have warned you if there was any problem.

 

[Corki]

I heard this morning on the radio a priest explaining that if both people in a marriage were baptised then the marriage is sacremental.

My wife is not baptised. She’s a Christian Scientist (this is killing me by the way). I am Roman Catholic. Our marriage was co-officiated by a protestant pastor and a catholic priest. Is my marriage sacramental?

A marriage between a Catholic and someone who is not baptized is a valid but non-Sacramental marriage. This is true. There is nothing “wrong” with such a marriage; the Church allows this as long as certain criteria are met (pre-cana counseling, dispensation, etc.)

What did your priest say? It seems he should have warned you if there was any problem.

Since the priest was involved, there probably wasn’t a problem. The priest probably applied for the dispensation and did any necessary paperwork invovled as part of the pre-marriage steps.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

For marriage to be a sacrament, both parties must be baptized. It can’t be a sacrament for one person and non-sacramental for the other. Baptism is the gateway for the other sacraments.

If your wife should be baptized at some point, you wouldn’t have to do anything; your marriage would become a sacrament upon her baptism.

Keep in mind that there is a difference between SACRAMENTAL and VALID. If you were married according to Catholic marriage norms (and since you were married by a priest I assume this is true) your marriage is VALID. It is a natural marriage rather than a sacramental marriage.

 

[bgic]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I never understood the distinction until now. Our marriage is vaild and we discussed this with our priest beforehand. Being sacramental never came up in my recollection. We did go to pre-cana and the priest did apply for dispensation, and co-officiate.

Thank you!

 

[Joe_Kelley]

What did your priest say? It seems he should have warned you if there was any problem.

I suspect he did, but as a part of a long list. From my experience in teaching RCIA people often do not hear all that they are told. They hear only the portions that affect their immediate actions. I think this is especially true in the midst of marriage preparation.; too much (name removed by moderator)ut and one has to filter it down to the immediate essentials.

There is also the problem I encounter especially with medical staff. They have done it a hundred times and don’t always realize how hard it is for the patient for whom it is all new. I suspect it is the same with priests preparing people for marriage; it is hard to see it from their side of the table.

It’s no ones fault, but a caution to us to focus on what the listener is hearing when we speak.

 

[NotWorthy]

I suspect he did, but as a part of a long list. From my experience in teaching RCIA people often do not hear all that they are told. They hear only the portions that affect their immediate actions. I think this is especially true in the midst of marriage preparation.; too much (name removed by moderator)ut and one has to filter it down to the immediate essentials.

There is also the problem I encounter especially with medical staff. They have done it a hundred times and don’t always realize how hard it is for the patient for whom it is all new. I suspect it is the same with priests preparing people for marriage; it is hard to see it from their side of the table.

It’s no ones fault, but a caution to us to focus on what the listener is hearing when we speak.

… Oh, I understand. You agree completely with everything I said. Thanks! (There’s a real deep joke in there if you think about it. )

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I heard this morning on the radio a priest explaining that if both people in a marriage were baptised then the marriage is sacremental.

My wife is not baptised. She’s a Christian Scientist (this is killing me by the way). I am Roman Catholic. Our marriage was co-officiated by a protestant pastor and a catholic priest. Is my marriage sacramental?

In order for the Marriage to be a Sacrament BOTH people must be validly Baptized.

 

[mclr_1397]

What if the other pary is baptised but not as a catholic? I heard that if a catholic woman who is married to a (baptised) prod. then she can’t partake in communion. Is this true? and why?

 

[Verbum]

Hi mclr,

What if the other pary is baptised but not as a catholic? I heard that if a catholic woman who is married to a (baptised) prod. then she can’t partake in communion. Is this true? and why

A marriage between a Catholic and a validly baptized Protestant is valid and sacramental if it has been authorized by the Church and celebrated in the presence of a priest or deacon. This is called a dispensation. Short of a dispensation, the couple is said to be “living in sin” and NEITHER can receive the sacraments.

Verbum

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi mclr,

What if the other pary is baptised but not as a catholic? I heard that if a catholic woman who is married to a (baptised) prod. then she can’t partake in communion. Is this true? and why

A marriage between a Catholic and a validly baptized Protestant is valid and sacramental if it has been authorized by the Church and celebrated in the presence of a priest or deacon. This is called a dispensation. Short of a dispensation, the couple is said to be “living in sin” and NEITHER can receive the sacraments.

Verbum

Are you sure?

The reason I’m asking is that the Sacrament of Matrimony is sanctified by the marriage couple, not the priest. The Covenant is made between the man and woman and God.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Are you sure?

The reason I’m asking is that the Sacrament of Matrimony is sanctified by the marriage couple, not the priest. The Covenant is made between the man and woman and God.

Verbum is correct. If a Catholic marries a Protestant with appropriate dispensations then it is both valid and sacramental.

 

[NotWorthy]

A marriage between a Catholic and a validly baptized Protestant is valid and sacramental if it has been authorized by the Church and celebrated in the presence of a priest or deacon. This is called a dispensation. Short of a dispensation, the couple is said to be “living in sin” and NEITHER can receive the sacraments.

Verbum

OK, so here’s my further confusion. A Catholic and a validly baptized Proetestant get married without a Church dispensation. The Church says the couple is “living in sin” and neither can receive the Sacraments. A year later, the couple divorce and go their separate ways. The Catholic wants to marry again 4 years later. The Church says he can’t remarry unless he gets the first marriage, that the Church didn’t recognize in the first place, to be annulled.

 

[puzzleannie]

OK, so here’s my further confusion. A Catholic and a validly baptized Proetestant get married without a Church dispensation. The Church says the couple is “living in sin” and neither can receive the Sacraments. A year later, the couple divorce and go their separate ways. The Catholic wants to marry again 4 years later. The Church says he can’t remarry unless he gets the first marriage, that the Church didn’t recognize in the first place, to be annulled.

no it says what it says to every Catholic who approaches the Church to prepare for marriage, you must prove that you are free to marry. Since there was a previous attempt at marriage, this person must prove–and canon law provides a means to do this, it is usually a simple paperwork process NOT a full annulment investigation–that your first marriage was invalid, therefore you have never been married in the eyes of the Church. In addition, like every other Catholic, he must go through marriage preparation designed to insure insofar as possible that he has the knowledge, disposition, intention and capability to enter into a valid marriage. This nearly always includes some type of counseling to help the person determine what went wrong with the first relationship and insure the underlying problem has been addressed, and it does not prevent the person from entering into a valid marriage contract.

Please if you want to challenge the facts, state them properly in the first place. Another aid to good discussion is to stay on topic (we only took 4 posts this time to get off topic) and on the right forum (sacraments). Over there OP and others with interest will find all the threads discussing this and other aspects of marriage, and so will enjoy a fuller answer to their questions.

What if the other pary is baptised but not as a catholic? I heard that if a catholic woman who is married to a (baptised) prod. then she can’t partake in communion. Is this true? and why?

did you hear this with regard to your own situation? then ask the priest what steps you can take to remedy your own personal situation, usually convalidation.

If you heard it about someone else, you have not provided all the facts, because you don’t know all the facts. Key info missing: did the Catholic receive a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic and comply with Church law on marriage? If not, that Catholic has willingly, knowingly and deliberately separated herself from full communion with the Catholic Church, has rejected the Eucharist and the communal sharing in Christ’s Body, and therefore has no right to ask for communion until she has demonstrated, through bringing her marriage in line with Church law, that she desires communion. She should see her priest.

 

[Ron_Conte]

I heard this morning on the radio a priest explaining that if both people in a marriage were baptised then the marriage is sacremental.

My wife is not baptised. She’s a Christian Scientist (this is killing me by the way). I am Roman Catholic. Our marriage was co-officiated by a protestant pastor and a catholic priest. Is my marriage sacramental?

It might not be. The Church does not permit co-officiating of marriages, and any marriage to an unbaptized person requires the permission of the Bishop. You need to contact the Bishop of your diocese by letter and explain your situation. You should talk to your parish priest first, so that you know what information to put in the letter.

 

[Ron_Conte]

A marriage between a Catholic and someone who is not baptized is a valid but non-Sacramental marriage. This is true. There is nothing “wrong” with such a marriage; the Church allows this as long as certain criteria are met (pre-cana counseling, dispensation, etc.)

It is false to say that a marriage can be valid but non-Sacramental. Validity refers to whether or not it is a sacrament. A non-valid marriage is by definition not the Sacrament of Marriage. A valid marriage is by definition the Sacrament of Marriage.

It is false to say that the Church permits the baptized to have a marriage that is not a Sacrament.

“for certain it is that in Christian marriage the contract is inseparable from the sacrament, and that, for this reason, the contract cannot be true and legitimate without being a sacrament as well. For Christ our Lord added to marriage the dignity of a sacrament; but marriage is the contract itself, whenever that contract is lawfully concluded.” Pope Leo XIII, Arcanum, n. 23.

 

[Ron_Conte]

For marriage to be a sacrament, both parties must be baptized. It can’t be a sacrament for one person and non-sacramental for the other. Baptism is the gateway for the other sacraments.

If your wife should be baptized at some point, you wouldn’t have to do anything; your marriage would become a sacrament upon her baptism.

Keep in mind that there is a difference between SACRAMENTAL and VALID. If you were married according to Catholic marriage norms (and since you were married by a priest I assume this is true) your marriage is VALID. It is a natural marriage rather than a sacramental marriage.

The above assertions are doctrinally false. Validity applies to Sacraments; there is no such thing as a valid non-Sacrament. Also, “Catholic marriage norms” do not allow for a merely natural marriage:

“for certain it is that in Christian marriage the contract is inseparable from the sacrament, and that, for this reason, the contract cannot be true and legitimate without being a sacrament as well. For Christ our Lord added to marriage the dignity of a sacrament; but marriage is the contract itself, whenever that contract is lawfully concluded.” Leo XIII, Arcanum, n. 23.

Can. 1055 §1. The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life and which is ordered by its nature to the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring, has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament between the baptized.

§2. For this reason, a valid matrimonial contract cannot exist between the baptized without it being by that fact a sacrament.

The Church does not teach that an invalid Marriage becomes a Sacrament upon the baptism of the unbaptized party. Nor does the Church teach that a marriage between a baptized and unbaptized person cannot be a Sacrament; such marriages are permitted by Canon Law (However, some of the theological questions are as yet unresolved).

 

[Ron_Conte]

In order for the Marriage to be a Sacrament BOTH people must be validly Baptized.

Can. 1086 §1. A marriage between two persons, one of whom has been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it and has not defected from it by a formal act and the other of whom is not baptized, is invalid.

§2. A person is not to be dispensed from this impediment unless the conditions mentioned in cann. 1125 and 1126 have been fulfilled.

It appears from Canon Law that the impediment that one party is not baptized can be dispensed by the local ordinary, if certain conditions have been met. However, there are still some unresolved theological questions on this point.

 

[puzzleannie]

It is false to say that a marriage can be valid but non-Sacramental. Validity refers to whether or not it is a sacrament.
.

no, it does not. This is not canon law. A marriage between two unbaptized persons, or between one baptized and one non-baptized person may be perfectly valid if they are otherwise free to marry and have exchanged proper consent and have capacity to do so. It is not a sacrament, however. A sacramental marriage may only occur between two baptized persons, and is by definition also valid (the only part of your answer that is correct). But the converse is not true .A marriage does not have to be sacramental in order to be valid, unless we are speaking of marriage between two baptized persons. You must make these distinctions as they are important

Further, only Catholics are bound by further Church laws on marriage, and obtain dispensations for those disciplines–marriage before a priest or deacon, in a Catholic Church, to another Catholic, etc.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

It is false to say that a marriage can be valid but non-Sacramental. Validity refers to whether or not it is a sacrament. A non-valid marriage is by definition not the Sacrament of Marriage. A valid marriage is by definition the Sacrament of Marriage.

Then is it your opinion that two Jews, two Muslims, or two Buddhists cannot enter into a valid marriage?

They’re not baptized, therefore they cannot enter into a sacramental marriage. But the Church doesn’t say that these people are “living in sin.” They are in natural marriages.

The Church does not teach that an invalid Marriage becomes a Sacrament upon the baptism of the unbaptized party. Nor does the Church teach that a marriage between a baptized and unbaptized person cannot be a Sacrament; such marriages are permitted by Canon Law (However, some of the theological questions are as yet unresolved).

The apologists here disagree with you source]:

Q:

When my wife and I were married in the Catholic Church, I was a baptized Catholic and she was a non-practicing Jehovah’s Witness. At that time she was not baptized but she has since been baptized in the Catholic Church. Is our marriage a sacramental marriage?

A:

Yes, your marriage is sacramental. There are two requirements for a marriage to be sacramental: (1) The marriage must be valid, and (2) both spouses must be baptized. A valid marriage may exist when one or both spouses are not baptized, but such a marriage is not sacramental. Prior to your wife’s baptism, your marriage was presumably valid but not sacramental because she was not baptized. Her baptism did not in any way invalidate your marriage so, upon her baptism: (1) Your marriage remained valid, and (2) you both were baptized. Both of the requirements for a sacramental marriage being met, your marriage became sacramental at your wife’s baptism.

The Code of Canon Law explains,
The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life and which is ordered by its nature to the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring, has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament between the baptized. For this reason, a valid matrimonial contract cannot exist between the baptized without it being by that fact a sacrament. (CIC 1055)