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notsmart
Guest
Can anyone explain to me why I would need a declaration of nullity on a marriage I had as a non believer? Why on earth is the thing being required of me?
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duskyjewel
Guest
You might have had what is called a “natural marriage.” As far as I know, marriages are presumed valid until proven otherwise.
Why don’t you ask this at the tribunal, of people who would know the answer? There are several experts around here, though. I am sure they’ll cime in soon.
Why don’t you ask this at the tribunal, of people who would know the answer? There are several experts around here, though. I am sure they’ll cime in soon.
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notsmart
Guest
I am not a believer, and someone told me its appropriate I do this before I even go the the RCIA classes. This is maddening.
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Miles_Mariae
Guest
You need a declaration of nullity if you want to marry again. It is not a prerequisite to RCIA.
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notsmart
Guest
I am married again, thats the problem. My first husband was a very violent man, and yes I saw signs of it when we were dating, so Its my fault, but I already know this, and now I am happily married to a nice man and have a child.
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Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
**Are you remarried? If you are then you would not be able to accept the Sacraments until your previous marriage is declared null (if it is)… that could be why the suggestion was made?
And why do you find it so maddening? I can understand it being confusing to you, but maddening? Can you explain? When I was first entering the Church I went off of the assumption that the Church was right…so therefore if there was something I didn’t agree with or didn’t understand I learned about it and made sure I accepted it before I proceeded…
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Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
Well, then you have to understand that the Church assumes ALL marriages are valid until proven otherwise. They can’t just take our word for it. If your previous marriage was not valid then obtaining a declaration of nullity shouldn’t be a problem. But until then if you want to follow Catholic teaching you would need to live as brother and sister with your current husband until that happens. I don’t think you should be turned away from RCIA though… that is where you could learn more about the Church’s views on marriage and come to understand them more fully before deciding if you’d like to enter the faith.
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notsmart
Guest
I find it maddening that I am being held to scrutiny for something I did when I was, and still am a non believer.
I find it maddening that any church can look at me not from where I am NOW but must go back to my past and judge it.
I have to say, this is not what I thought Jesus did with the woman at the well story.
I find it maddening that any church can look at me not from where I am NOW but must go back to my past and judge it.
I have to say, this is not what I thought Jesus did with the woman at the well story.
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Miles_Mariae
Guest
Ah, that makes more sense. I still do not quite agree that annulment is necessary prior to RCIA. After all, the idea of RCIA is to catechize you. After that, if you do decide to enter the Church, there may be difficulties. Baptism remits all of your sins, but then after that if you still wish to receive the Sacraments, you will need to abstain from intimate activities with the person you are living with.
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notsmart
Guest
Live as brother and sister with my husband! Why should he be punished like this for something I want to do? He will never go along with something like that. NEVER. So, if he ends up divorcing me for cutting him out, how would the church like that?
Then I would be a 2 strike looser.
Then I would be a 2 strike looser.
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lizaanne
Guest
You may not belive in Jesus, but He belives in you. This is not about you really, this is about protecting a Sacrament of the Church. The Catholic Church does not have exclusive rights to the sixth commandment - it applies to everyone. It is God’s law, not a Catholic law. The Church is only ensuring that those who enter into Sacramental unions are free to do so.
~Liza
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Feanaro_s_Wife
Guest
Right now you have no understanding of the Church teachings. If you put aside your defensiveness and anger and just listen you may come to realize that all of Her teachings are for our own good. Since you still call yourself an unbeliever I don’t quite understand why RCIA is even attractive to you? But if you are sincere about learning more about the Catholic faith it might be wise to actually try to learn instead of just getting upset about things you do not yet understand. If there is a priest available for you to talk to it might be helpful for you to ask him these questions too.
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Miles_Mariae
Guest
Only good can come from submitting yourself to the Church’s maternal care.
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notsmart
Guest
I dont understand the church’s teachings, but I do understand my husband. I can assure you he will NEVER go along with a brother and sister relationship. No one is addressing that not so small matter. If the church takes marriage so seriously, why would it risk my current marriage in to a situation where I will end up divorced?
This makes little to no sense to me at all.
This makes little to no sense to me at all.
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coyotekate77
Guest
Today 12:24 pm
Actually, it might be a prerequisite. Since the subject was brought up we can probably assume that the reason the OP is seeking a decree is that he was married, divorced and now wishes at some point to marry again–otherwise, why would he say ‘mistake in marrying the first time’ --which seems to indicate that he has, or plans to have, married a second time.
If that is the case, he must receive a decree before RCIA, because if he is married again without a decree of nullity or plans to marry ‘in the church’ before receiving that decree of nullity, he would not be eligible to receive the sacraments in that case.
And it would be a grievous error to let him go through the sacraments and profess faith in the Catholic Church only to have him say, should the decree not be issued or should it not be issued at the time he wishes to ‘marry again’, “Well, screw it. I’m going to get married anyway–and if I can’t get married in the Church I’ll get married outside it. And I’ll either ‘take’ the sacrament when I want it if I can get away with it–or I’ll deny the faith, become an ‘ex-Catholic’ and a bitter opponent of the Church–and thus be not on an apostate, but a fornicator on top of it.”
If married already without a decree of nullity, he is in objective mortal sin as his first marriage --whether he was a ‘believer’ or not–is automatically assumed to be ‘valid’ unless there is an indication to the contrary. If he was unbaptized, there may be a Petrine privilege, but it is more probable that he was a baptized but lapsed, or practicing nonCatholic, and that he might be confused and think that the mere fact of him ‘becoming a true believer’ would automatically ‘nullify’ any previous things he did ‘before’ he was a believer (which is not the case).
He must petition on valid grounds. If, for example, he went into the marriage with the idea that he could ‘get out of it’, or never intended to ‘stay’ in the marriage, or was too immature to understand marriage, or was prepared to ‘cheat’ but just married the woman for gain, etc. --or the woman he married never intended to stay married, was too immature, had pre-existing defects such that she did not understand at the time the nature of marriage, etc., then a decree of nullity could be granted.
If, however, he knew what he was doing (and so did she) and at the time of the marriage they intended it to be a ‘forever’ marriage. . .but after the marriage one or both ‘fell out of love’ or did something that there had been no previous indication they would do before the marriage. . .then it was a valid marriage, and they must either ‘get back together’ or else live apart but in that case he would be considered a married, but ‘separated’ man who would not be permitted to engage in another marriage until/unless the wife died (and no, he could not marry again even if she married again–that wouldn’t change things).
It is a sad situation but one must remember that this is not the ‘fault’ of the Church.
Marriage is a ‘forever’ sacrament and it is likewise a ‘forever’ natural event. While his marriage as a nonbeliever may not have been sacramental, it was natural and thus valid unless there is proof to the contrary. So it is up to him to show the Church that there was a good reason why the first marriage was not ‘valid’ (even though natural) in order for the Church to make a judgment whether or not there really was not a valid marriage.
Likewise, before any ‘second’ marriage comes about, it is the responsibility of the parties to make sure that they are free to marry. The OP may (on the finding of the Church) be free to marry if there was not a ‘valid’ marriage in the first instance–but he may not --and that again is not the Church’s ‘fault’ that he is in the situation.
I wish him the best–but he must be careful that he understands exactly what the teaching of the Church is regarding marriage–that it does not depend on what he feels now but on the state of his (and his ex-wife’s) mind, heart and soul then (at the time of the marriage) as to whether there was a valid marriage or not.
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duskyjewel
Guest
Not to be unkind, but the Church may consider you not married to your husband, because it considers you still married to your first husband until proven otherwise. From the Church’s standpoint, there is no marriage with your current husband to protect.
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lizaanne
Guest
You really need to educate yourself about the process. I strongly suggest you purchase this book: Annulment: The Wedding That Was
You need to understand the process, how the Church can declare a marriage null, why she does so, and how this occurs. Until you educate yourself you will continue to twist in the wind, get all up set and bent out of shape, and think the entire Church is against you personally. This is certainly not the case, but until you know what you don’t know, you will continue to be very unhappy.
~Liza
You need to understand the process, how the Church can declare a marriage null, why she does so, and how this occurs. Until you educate yourself you will continue to twist in the wind, get all up set and bent out of shape, and think the entire Church is against you personally. This is certainly not the case, but until you know what you don’t know, you will continue to be very unhappy.
~Liza
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Miles_Mariae
Guest
A grievous error indeed. However, the OP claims to be an unbeliever, and so perhaps she is attending RCIA to first learn about the Faith. In our RCIA group, the priest teaching the class was open to that possibility. In such a case, I do not believe that a decree of nullity would be necessary.
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notsmart
Guest
Hello, my name is Monica, and you missed the part where I said I am now happily married to a nice man and have a child. Unless, I posted that somewhere else. I am getting confused because I am on a crash course here that lasted hours yesterday and now today for some time, because I dont have much time left before my mother will be returning my child. I am investigating the whole christian way, and was drawn to catholic beliefs about abortion and some other things, like its longevity so here I am.
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Miles_Mariae
Guest
You may be “married” as recognized by civil authority, but whether you are married in the eyes of the Church is a different matter.
It is excellent that you want to learn more about the Faith
It is excellent that you want to learn more about the Faith
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