My Mormon girlfriend

[zaffiroborant]

Actually Reff could marry his girlfriend in front of a priest without her being Catholic, but she would need to agree that the children would be raised Catholic. How likely is that?

From the paragraphs below it seems she wouldn’t have to agree to raise them Catholic but she must understand that Reff is obligated to raise them Catholic.

*"Canon 1125.1 the catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith, and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power in order that all the children be baptised and brought up in the catholic Church;

Canon 1125.2 the other party is to be informed in good time of these promises to be made by the catholic party, so that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and of the obligation of the catholic party."*

Though I would think that for a committed member of the LDS church this would still be an unhappy situation.

 

[MelanieAnne]

From the paragraphs below it seems she wouldn’t have to agree to raise them Catholic but she must understand that Reff is obligated to raise them Catholic.

*"Canon 1125.1 the catholic party is to declare that he or she is prepared to remove dangers of defecting from the faith, and is to make a sincere promise to do all in his or her power in order that all the children be baptised and brought up in the catholic Church;

Canon 1125.2 the other party is to be informed in good time of these promises to be made by the catholic party, so that it is certain that he or she is truly aware of the promise and of the obligation of the catholic party."*

Though I would think that for a committed member of the LDS church this would still be an unhappy situation.

I guess that I equated the two. I presume that if you, as my husband, understand that I am obligated to raise any children as Catholics, and if you still marry me under such conditions, that there is tacit agreement.

 

[rmcmullan]

…Husbands and wives can come to an agreement, but once children are thrown into the mix, all bets are off.

Yes, but it’s been done before. In the case of my own parents, one was Catholic and one an indifferent Protestant. There are also indifferent Mormons and indifferent Catholics and it is possible for them to fall in love with each other.

 

[yellowbird]

Yes, but it’s been done before. In the case of my own parents, one was Catholic and one an indifferent Protestant. There are also indifferent Mormons and indifferent Catholics and it is possible for them to fall in love with each other.

I’m curious how you were raised? Because you are now Mormon - it would seem you rejected both of your parents’ views, which I think is common.

 

[marthagreys]

At the risk of sounding crass, I have to put in my two cents worth here. Having toyed with Mormonism for a while myself, I don’t suggest that you walk away from this relationship, but rather that you RUN. In some areas of relationships, compromise is in order, but this is not one of those areas. Catholicism and Mormonism are NOT compatable, and the differences will only become more visible and more intense. Get out NOW before it gets any harder.

 

[reff]

I doubt if you’ll appreciate my reply but I think her parents are just being honest with you. If religion is going to be a problem, you’re better off marrying someone of your own faith, that’s just a universal rule. You need to decide how much religion means to you.

I’m a former Catholic, now Mormon and I agree with the comment that Mormons hold a higher standard. I think of the Catholic church as high school and the Mormon church as university. Just in terms of committment and sacrifice, the Mormon church is way more demanding. But if being Catholic is important to you and being Mormon is important to her, it’s always going to be somwhere where you’ll have a conflict.

With all due respect I find your statement that Catholicism is like high school, and Mormon is as a University laughable. If you were to compare the Liturgy of Catholicism to that of Mormonism(e.g. Mass vs. Sacrament Meeting) I think your statement would be reverse.

 

[rmcmullan]

I’m curious how you were raised? Because you are now Mormon - it would seem you rejected both of your parents’ views, which I think is common.

We were raised as Catholics. Since my Dad was an indifferent Protestant, and the Catholic Church at the time very insistent, he agreed to that. So we went to Catholic schools until high school. I think of us five kids there is only one left that’s takes her membership in the Catholic church seriously and also sends her kids to Catholic schools. Which is sad becuase we were pretty Catholic at the time.

But I don’t consider myself to be a lapsed Catholic–I consider the Mormon church to encapsulate (and at times correct) my Catholic teachings which I hold dear. I’m very grateful I was able to go to school where the 10 commandments hung on the walls of my grade 1 classroom. I’m one of the few people who can still recite them.

There are others here at the CAF who are very comfortable in a Catholic/LDS world and believe they reconcile very well. Others are “defenders of the faith” and emphasize the doctrinal differences. I believe at my final day, I’ll be judged on how I did with what I knew. As it says in the BoM “Holy, holy holy are thy judgements, Oh Lord. But I know my guilt!”

 

[rmcmullan]

With all due respect I find your statement that Catholicism is like high school, and Mormon is as a University laughable. If you were to compare the Liturgy of Catholicism to that of Mormonism(e.g. Mass vs. Sacrament Meeting) I think your statement would be reverse.

Yes, I know, it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny that well to people who are not LDS but I do believe it.

To carry that analogy a little bit further and to break it and reduce it to gobbledeegook, I should also say that Judaism would be akin to grade school. The only have the Old Testament and reject the New Testament. Christians have both the Old and New but reject the Book of Mormon. The University of Christianity has all three.

Anyway, I know this POV is likely to provoke you but I sincerly believe it.

 

[puzzleannie]

I’m just curious. Why do you say that mormonism is more demanding than catholicism?

if you are dating the member of a religion that places great demands on daily domestic life not only in worship but in food, conduct etc you simply must be educated on those demands because you will be bound by many of them–this holds for Mormons, devout Jews (who would never sanction marriage with a Catholic in any case), Orthodox Christians etc.

Their rules govern almost every facet of daily life. To extensive to go into here, any more than we could discuss all the levitical laws in the bible binding on Jews.

The relationship with a “devout Mormon” is going nowhere because her family will not allow the marriage, and will exert extreme pressure to either convert you or break up the relationship.

 

[puzzleannie]

Speaking for myself, no basis in disrespecting another’s spiritual journey or none at all.

I have attended a number of different religious environments and at the end of the day, respect.

People with different religious backgrounds are in hot water, so to speak, because (this has been alluded to) lack of understanding or a agenda, if you will, for some people with those intentions.

Love thy neighbor is a great commandment that liberates versus the shackling that can develop, so to speak.

that works great when dealing with your neighbor, but when two whose core beliefs and most sacred commitments are diametrically opposed attempt marriage and raising a family they are entering into endless conflict which will end only when one ceases to “respect” and follow his own religion.

 

[yellowbird]

There are others here at the CAF who are very comfortable in a Catholic/LDS world and believe they reconcile very well.

I honestly can’t understand how our two faiths could reconcile well? In order for you to become Mormon, I assume you had to denounce the non-negotiables that I posted earlier: Jesus IS God - part of the Trinity, Priest for Confession, Eucharist, Mary is sinless, Saints interceed on our behalf, Purgatroy, Pope is the head of the Church… etc. etc. … OK, so you could keep the 10 Commandments… but other than that, it would seem that literally everything else “Catholic” would have to be pitched??

My brother is an agnostic but pretty much agrees with the 10 Commandments and yet my views and his do not reconcile well at all. I would think in the same way he & I agree… you and I would agree - on a VERY basic level.

I respect that since you’ve been both Catholic & Mormon, you’d know better than I do… but honestly, how am I off base here?

And to the OP: I think rmcmullan asked an interesting question in a previous post: Are you dating the girl because she is Mormon? I wonder - why even go there if you’re trying to leave that faith?

 

[excaliber]

I think Marriages in different Christian religions can work. Look for the good, not the differences.

What if you were sitting in front of Christ asking him about the situation? Can you hear him say “dump her”?
I sure can’t!!!
I am almost sure he will ask you if you love this woman…he would ask her if she loves you. Then he would ask you both if you love him. If you answer yes… then you have the foundation of a marriage. The only thing that would then stand in your way are rules…rules that are not as important as love.

Remember Christ himself worked miracles on the sabath…that was against the rules.

Also it is not man that makes marriages valid…it is God.
Two Catholics could marry…that dose not force God to approve of it.

God is a person, not a big book of rules.He is alive and he knows that
there are thousands of churches trying to be christian…God is not a fool, he knows members with different christian backgrounds can
fall in love…do you think God feels that rules are more important then people and love?

As far as children, you do need to be unified. But I doubt you need to
have taught them every detail of the trinity before they are 18.

When they are 18, they can decide
themselves.

 

[excaliber]

I understand the OP’s position.
I was born and raised Jehovahs Witness, my fiance is Jehovahs Witness.

It is easier to find a mate with good qualities in familiar waters.
If I marry someone mostly because they are catholic…I could be in a world of trouble,
I don’t know many Catholics…so how can I marry one?

Jehovahs Witness and Mormons are required to be very active, its easier to see a persons love for God in that invironment.
If all they did was have a service on sunday that did not require much then it would be hard to tell if a person was serious or not.

Anyway my advise to the OP
would be to discuss EVERYTHING with her, even complament her on her zeal for God…remember the reason she dose not feel comfortable in a Catholic church is BECAUSE she loves God, but is miss guided. Her love for God is something you can build on.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Yes, I know, it doesn’t stand up to scrutiny that well to people who are not LDS but I do believe it.

To carry that analogy a little bit further and to break it and reduce it to gobbledeegook, I should also say that Judaism would be akin to grade school. The only have the Old Testament and reject the New Testament. Christians have both the Old and New but reject the Book of Mormon. The University of Christianity has all three.

Anyway, I know this POV is likely to provoke you but I sincerly believe it.

I view mormonism as childhood make believe. Let’s play church, you be a prophet and I’ll be a god. You can’t be god, I WANT TO BE god…fine…we’ll compromise…everyone gets to be god! We have to name our church something important, so we will, that way everyone will know that our church is “true”. We need some really cool rituals…I know…we’ll use the ones I saw my dad do with the Masons. Every church needs scriptues, I know, we’ll use this cool story about Indians! That will be our scriptures! Everyone will know we’re the best church because we have extra scriptures. etc. etc. etc.

 

[excaliber]

I view mormonism as childhood make believe. Let’s play church, you be a prophet and I’ll be a god. You can’t be god, I WANT TO BE god…fine…we’ll compromise…everyone gets to be god! We have to name our church something important, so we will, that way everyone will know that our church is “true”. We need some really cool rituals…I know…we’ll use the ones I saw my dad do with the Masons. Every church needs scriptues, I know, we’ll use this cool story about Indians! That will be our scriptures! Everyone will know we’re the best church because we have extra scriptures. etc. etc. etc.

hey hey hey this is the OP’s girlfriends faith we are talking about LOL.

 

[reff]

hey hey hey this is the OP’s girlfriends faith we are talking about LOL.

 

[PoliSciProf]

OP, I have known several Mormons very well. Mormons are very committed to their families, their ward and their stakes. They tend to stay very much within their wards/stakes and are very connected with each other. This is a good part of their appeal. However, this poses real difficulties for non-Mormans who marry a devout Morman. I know one such mixed marriage in particular that ended poorly in divorce for this reason. Add Morman theology to Morman practice and I think it would be very difficult for a Catholic/Mormon marriage to succeed. You would always be an “outsider.”

You said she wanted to leave [Mass] because she felt so uncomfortable, and said she felt guilty for going like we’re some kind of satanic cult. But than she asked me to go to church with her, which I thought was ridiculous since she didn’t give Mass a chance. Of course I told her no, and she started going on about me dissing on Mormons when she makes insensitive comments about Catholics all the time. This is a BIG danger sign for you even if “she is a sweet girl.” I suggest that you don’t pursue this relationship.

 

[RebeccaJ]

hey hey hey this is the OP’s girlfriends faith we are talking about LOL.

True. It’s likely I’m not saying anything the OP doesn’t already know.

reff, ask her to go to RCIA with you. Not out of trying to convert her, but so she can better understand your faith. Obviously, you know hers.

She was nervous in mass, so what. The first time I went to mass I wanted to get up and bolt out of there like my life depended on it.

It is a natural reaction to the unfamiliar. RCIA would help her understand what’s what, so she doesn’t have to be all skittish and thinking the devil is in the details.

Also, ask her what she liked about mass…bring the focus around to the positive. My first mass, I liked the prayers, the sun coming through the stained glass, the the little old lady who was very friendly.

Other than that, I had to make myself sit there.

 

[rmcmullan]

There are a lot of marriages that are mixed with regard to religion. This is a sweeping generalization but it’s been my observation that while women will have stronger spiritual feelings, they prefer the man to lead. That model is more suited to a non-mixed marriage.

In a mixed marriage, some one needs to be the “leader”. How you do that is up to the two individuals. But if they’re both strongly committed to different faiths and they both try to lead, well that’s just not going to work.

Another thing I’ve noticed (i.e. another sweeping generalization) is that when the Mom and Dad don’t agree well on the subject of religion, the kids tend to split towards Mom or Dad’s point of view, some kids to Mom, some to Dad.

In families where the parents agree, the best teaching and chances of success are to be had. So consider that too.

 

[rmcmullan]

I honestly can’t understand how our two faiths could reconcile well? In order for you to become Mormon, I assume you had to denounce the non-negotiables that I posted earlier: Jesus IS God - part of the Trinity, Priest for Confession, Eucharist, Mary is sinless, Saints interceed on our behalf, Purgatroy, Pope is the head of the Church… etc. etc. … OK, so you could keep the 10 Commandments… but other than that, it would seem that literally everything else “Catholic” would have to be pitched??

That depends on how you see it I guess. I think the Gospel of Christ is what it’s all about and what you mentioned is mostly doctrine. It doesn’t build a Zion society.