My Mormon wife says she would attend gay wedding

[reisender]

I would absolutely attend a gay wedding.
Love for all.
youtube.com/watch?v=aPSfjReeC_k

 

[SkinnyJay]

I see this a little differently. My friends and family know how I feel about the subject. It is nothing against anyone or any type of person, but I am opposed to it totally. If someone invited me to a gay wedding, either they did not really know me (and as such i would not go) or they did it KNOWING that I would be bothered by it.

Someone who does something knowing that it would offend me or put me into a bad spot is not someone that I want to associate with.

 

[FCEGM]

if god is up there … do you really think humans can insult him?

Of course - and to our ruin, not His, for we can pervert what should be our love for Him into concern for human respect.

Doesn’t your religion say that god created homosexuals (just as he created everyone else). Doesn’t your religion say that god is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent? Therefore, god must have known (eternally) that homosexuals would be homosexual.

Christ teaches through His Church that homosexual activity is always disordered because human sexuality is ordered toward the procreation of children under the canopy of marriage. God’s knowledge of what we are in our fallen nature doesn’t obviate the need to become by His grace partakers of His divine nature.

Can the homosexual be blamed for his or her sexual preference and refusal to struggle against their passions?

It is the acting on the preference which is blameworthy. And whether a homosexual or heterosexual, one can always be blamed in the refusal to enter the struggle.

If they’re denied grace isn’t the only choice they can freely make perdition?

What makes you think that they (or anybody fighting against disordered passions) are denied necessary graces? That can be the case when God knows - and He always does - that such graces will not be accepted.

Drop the Calvinism that you truly may be humble and not in doubt. :tsktsk:

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I’m invited to go to my cousin’s LDS baptism. The Catholic Church does not recognize LDS “baptisms” as an actual baptism. Would my presence be an absolute sign of my “approval of LDS baptisms”?

Should I attend?

 

[dianaiad]

I’m invited to go to my cousin’s LDS baptism. The Catholic Church does not recognize LDS “baptisms” as an actual baptism. Would my presence be an absolute sign of my “approval of LDS baptisms”?

Should I attend?

No more than my invited attendance to a Catholic wedding and mass was an absolute sign of my approval of Catholic masses.

Just as nobody at the baptism is going to figure that you are there to put the sign of official Catholic approval on an LDS baptism…well, why am I preaching to you? You quite obviously get the point you yourself are making!

 

[ralphinal]

I’m invited to go to my cousin’s LDS baptism. The Catholic Church does not recognize LDS “baptisms” as an actual baptism. Would my presence be an absolute sign of my “approval of LDS baptisms”?

Should I attend?

Attending a baptism is not exactly the same, and here is why.

When we attend a marriage, we are saying that we accept the union between a man and a woman as being right and good, as God commanded. We are saying that we know that a man and a woman are made for each other, and we are offering our prayers and our approval to the couple. As GOd commanded as well, we offer our hopes that they be fruitful and multiply.

None of that is valid with two people of the same sex.

Now, with a baptism, we are saying that we want to see this child as a member of the Body of Christ, and we celebrate the rebirth of them as a child of God. Even if we do not acknowledge the LDS baptism, we do see that there is an understanding of doing God’s will

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Attending a baptism is not exactly the same, and here is why.

When we attend a marriage, we are saying that we accept the union between a man and a woman as being right and good, as God commanded. We are saying that we know that a man and a woman are made for each other, and we are offering our prayers and our approval to the couple. As GOd commanded as well, we offer our hopes that they be fruitful and multiply.

None of that is valid with two people of the same sex.

Now, with a baptism, we are saying that we want to see this child as a member of the Body of Christ, and we celebrate the rebirth of them as a child of God. Even if we do not acknowledge the LDS baptism, we do see that there is an understanding of doing God’s will

So does this mean secular, atheist weddings are off? Their idea of “marriage” is completely at odds with ours, is it not?

I’ve been to a gay wedding before, not because I “approved of it”, but because I love my family and I know my absence would have caused an undue amount of pain; an amount far exceeding the amount of perceived scandal by those who wouldn’t even be at the wedding.

I’ve also attended Jewish bar mitzvahs without a tarnish to my conscience.

 

[RebeccaJ]

So does this mean secular, atheist weddings are off? Their idea of “marriage” is completely at odds with ours, is it not?

I’ve been to a gay wedding before, not because I “approved of it”, but because I love my family and I know my absence would have caused an undue amount of pain; an amount far exceeding the amount of perceived scandal by those who wouldn’t even be at the wedding.

I’ve also attended Jewish bar mitzvahs without a tarnish to my conscience.

As far as I can tell, all the Church says is to not participate in illicit ceremonies that profane the Sacraments. I take this to mean, don’t be a part of the wedding party, such as the maid of honor or the best man.

 

[ralphinal]

So does this mean secular, atheist weddings are off? Their idea of “marriage” is completely at odds with ours, is it not?

I would not participate. I may not attend. If one of the parties is Catholic, there is an issue there.

I’ve been to a gay wedding before, not because I “approved of it”, but because I love my family and I know my absence would have caused an undue amount of pain; an amount far exceeding the amount of perceived scandal by those who wouldn’t even be at the wedding.

Like I said before, anyone who knows me KNOWS that I am opposed to gay unions. If they have ever discussed this with me, they know that it is not just because of religion. FOr them to invite me, they are saying “To hell with your beliefs and your feelings on the matter” OR they are saying “Ralph, we want you to be a visible hypocrit.”

Neither one is acceptable.

I’ve also attended Jewish bar mitzvahs without a tarnish to my conscience.

That would not phase me, either.

 

[Brendan]

Well, if that gay person was my good friend I would attend. Why would I want to insult my friend? And of course, some protestant churches do marry gay people. So it would probably be a church wedding.

For example, if ellen degeneres invited me to her wedding, I would have attended.

If a good friend invited you to a cross burning in front of an African American’s house, and your friend would be insulted if you didn’t go. Would you go?

Some Protestant churches (such as the Aryan Nations) do such things; does the very fact that a Protestant church does it mean that it’s a good thing?

 

[Brendan]

So does this mean secular, atheist weddings are off? Their idea of “marriage” is completely at odds with ours, is it not?.

Actually, it is not. THe Church recognizes both Sacramental and Natural Marriages.

A Natural Marriage occurs between two un-baptized people and it fully valid in the eyes of the Church. It simply lacks the Sacramental Grace imparted to the baptized.

And if both atheists were baptitzed (as children for example) and not bound by Canonical Form, the marriage would even be Sacramental.

 

[empurpledsoul]

I love my kids, and finding out that one of them was gay–and willing to leave the church and act on those feelings–would break my heart. I could never ‘not love’ them, or disown them. So I don’t know exactly what I would do.

If it were my children I would attend. Just as God didn’t stop loving Adam and Eve and Jesus didn’t stop loving those who persecuted him, loving those who exercise their ‘free will’ in ways that are sin is what we are commanded to do. It is not our burden to reject them, judge them or condemn them for their way and we most certainly will have less effect on them if we hate and despise them than if we continue to love them as God’s children.

If you fear that you might ‘turn gay’ and sin also by attending that is your call. Because we are taught to avoid what might tempt us to change our will from good to bad. This would be the only reason to not attend a ceremony recognizing the love between two human beings because that is what a ‘gay marriage’ actually is.

And Jesus did not avoid those who were sinners, he was known for upsetting even his own disciples for not sharing their judgmental attitudes that society had ingrained in them, like when a prostitute gate crashed on of their gatherings.

We need to take a lesson from that.

 

[dianaiad]

If it were my children I would attend. Just as God didn’t stop loving Adam and Eve and Jesus didn’t stop loving those who persecuted him, loving those who exercise their ‘free will’ in ways that are sin is what we are commanded to do. It is not our burden to reject them, judge them or condemn them for their way and we most certainly will have less effect on them if we hate and despise them than if we continue to love them as God’s children.

If you fear that you might ‘turn gay’ and sin also by attending that is your call. Because we are taught to avoid what might tempt us to change our will from good to bad. This would be the only reason to not attend a ceremony recognizing the love between two human beings because that is what a ‘gay marriage’ actually is.

And Jesus did not avoid those who were sinners, he was known for upsetting even his own disciples for not sharing their judgmental attitudes that society had ingrained in them, like when a prostitute gate crashed on of their gatherings.

We need to take a lesson from that.

Very good point.

 

[CJ_Nick]

If it were one of my kids, my Catholic rear would be there !!!

Peace,
CJ

 

[Catholic20064]

I’m invited to go to my cousin’s LDS baptism. The Catholic Church does not recognize LDS “baptisms” as an actual baptism. Would my presence be an absolute sign of my “approval of LDS baptisms”?

Should I attend?

Yes and no you shouldn’t attend.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I would not participate. I may not attend. If one of the parties is Catholic, there is an issue there.

Of course that would be a whole other can of worms!

Like I said before, anyone who knows me KNOWS that I am opposed to gay unions. If they have ever discussed this with me, they know that it is not just because of religion. FOr them to invite me, they are saying “To hell with your beliefs and your feelings on the matter” OR they are saying “Ralph, we want you to be a visible hypocrit.”

Neither one is acceptable.

That would not phase me, either.

This is a very reasonable position because your making your actions congruent with both your conscience and your comfort, and I would in no way think that you should be implored to go in such a circumstance.

I think this issue boils down mostly to personal conscience and individual circumstance and I don’t think there’s any universalized “rule of thumb” that can be applied to such a case.

In the case of the “gay wedding” I attended, it was my older brother. Not a single member of our family showed up for this, and I knew this would be the case before even sending my RSVP. I even made it a point to tell my brother that I came for the sake of my familial love and not any notion of complacency.

 

[ralphinal]

Of course that would be a whole other can of worms!

This is a very reasonable position because your making your actions congruent with both your conscience and your comfort, and I would in no way think that you should be implored to go in such a circumstance.

I think this issue boils down mostly to personal conscience and individual circumstance and I don’t think there’s any universalized “rule of thumb” that can be applied to such a case.

In the case of the “gay wedding” I attended, it was my older brother. Not a single member of our family showed up for this, and I knew this would be the case before even sending my RSVP. I even made it a point to tell my brother that I came for the sake of my familial love and not any notion of complacency.

And your situation was the most difficult possible. We are to love the sinner and hate the sin. However, it is hard for us to separate the two and even harder for the sinner to see that. Is it too much to ask a homosexual person to understand that we love them but cannot condon the act? Perhaps it is, but it is what we are called to do.

I just don’t always know how.