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PennitentMan
Guest
Do some research on Abiogenesis.
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North_of_Nod
Guest
You’re welcome, fading. We can know that God is not amused by our struggles based on the fact that he sent his Son to die to save us from permanent death. It is impossible for us to see or understand every single reason behind our struggles, but we are assured by the Lord that our rewards will be great. Even the apostles, who died for their faith, did so almost enthusiastically. They died horrible deaths but knew that physical death is merely the gateway to eternity. They willingly (and consistently) faced death, rather than denying Jesus, which they could have done easily to save themselves. There* is* one who delights in our struggles - Satan. Perhaps the greatest trick he ever played was to convince the world that he doesn’t even exist. His sole goal is to manipulate people away from God, by telling them that no loving God would cause such pain, when in fact, we (as a race) chose it. God did not cause suffering - Satan did. Because he knows he cannot attack God, he attacks the nearest thing to God…Creation. We can know that God has given us free will, because he has not overwhelmed us with evidence to the point where we have no choice but to acknowledge his existence. True love is a choice based on trust and self-sacrifice, not forced acceptance. He has provided ample evidence, but true faith is an act of the will. Before Christ, God communicated verbally with his people, because the Savior had not yet been sent to bring the Good News. Now that he has come, we are given the choice to believe or to reject his gift. He tells us to “take up our crosses” and “follow” him, which may include suffering in our fallen world. Criminals are people who have chosen to reject God and if they harm us, our blood is on their hands. They too have free will, a consequence of sin, but they will have to stand before God and account for their actions. Unlike that of the faithful, their suffering will be eternal. Illness like cancer is the result of our having corruptible bodies, which cannot enter heaven. Nothing imperfect can enter God’s immediate presence. Suffering is a consequence for inviting evil into the world. It is very much against God’s Will, but he has offered us another way out - if only we will accept it.
I hope this has been helpful. I sense that you are searching earnestly for answers, and I hope this aids your decision.
God bless.
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North_of_Nod
Guest
Based on the composition of a basic single cell, that is the probability that the materials could have randomly formed correctly (with properly ordered DNA) in 16 billion years - basically zero chance. You have a better chance of winning a state lottery every day for the rest of your life.
And still no one wants to argue against the Dead Sea Scrolls and archaeological evidence. Would anyone with Biblical knowledge care to tell me how details such as the piercing of Christ’s side on the cross, unbroken legs, correct genealogy, exact place of birth, dying with thieves, nailed hands and feet, etc. came to be guessed correctly by chance? I find it interesting that crucifixion didn’t even exist at the time these predictions were made. The Dead Sea Scrolls containing this information have been dated by both Christian and unbelieving scientists to exist centuries before Christ. Consider this: In about 538 B.C., the prophet Daniel correctly predicted nearly 400 years of history, as recorded by his scribes in Daniel chapter 8 of the Bible. His prophecy started with a prediction that the Babylonians would be overthrown by the Medians and the Persians, after which the ruler of Persia (Cyrus) would allow the Jews to return from exile. This would be followed by a very rapid conquest by Greece - which at the time of the prophecy was a relatively weak nation. This prophecy came true with Alexander the Great, who conquered the region with incredible speed. Daniel also correctly prophesied the sudden death of this leader and his succession by four leaders of lesser power. Additionally, he predicted the subsequent rise of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who in the second century was the ruler of the Seleucid Empire. The prophecy goes on to state that the empire would grow toward the “Beautiful Land” (Israel), and that it would set itself up as the “Prince of the host” - taking away daily sacrifice and “throwing truth to the ground.” In history, that is exactly what Antiochus IV Epiphanes did. Worship and sacrifice at the temple was stopped, and the abomination - the sacrifice of a pig (detestable to the Jews) on the Temple altar was committed. The accuracy of this prophecy of 400 years of history is beyond coincidence.
And still no one wants to argue against the Dead Sea Scrolls and archaeological evidence. Would anyone with Biblical knowledge care to tell me how details such as the piercing of Christ’s side on the cross, unbroken legs, correct genealogy, exact place of birth, dying with thieves, nailed hands and feet, etc. came to be guessed correctly by chance? I find it interesting that crucifixion didn’t even exist at the time these predictions were made. The Dead Sea Scrolls containing this information have been dated by both Christian and unbelieving scientists to exist centuries before Christ. Consider this: In about 538 B.C., the prophet Daniel correctly predicted nearly 400 years of history, as recorded by his scribes in Daniel chapter 8 of the Bible. His prophecy started with a prediction that the Babylonians would be overthrown by the Medians and the Persians, after which the ruler of Persia (Cyrus) would allow the Jews to return from exile. This would be followed by a very rapid conquest by Greece - which at the time of the prophecy was a relatively weak nation. This prophecy came true with Alexander the Great, who conquered the region with incredible speed. Daniel also correctly prophesied the sudden death of this leader and his succession by four leaders of lesser power. Additionally, he predicted the subsequent rise of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, who in the second century was the ruler of the Seleucid Empire. The prophecy goes on to state that the empire would grow toward the “Beautiful Land” (Israel), and that it would set itself up as the “Prince of the host” - taking away daily sacrifice and “throwing truth to the ground.” In history, that is exactly what Antiochus IV Epiphanes did. Worship and sacrifice at the temple was stopped, and the abomination - the sacrifice of a pig (detestable to the Jews) on the Temple altar was committed. The accuracy of this prophecy of 400 years of history is beyond coincidence.
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fadingfaith
Guest
good point.
this is true, however, how do you give your all to god if you do not vigorously hold a belief in him? i think of st therese’s words “i dont want to be a saint by halves”. what is the point to christianity if you are not going to be completely abandoned to god?
i have had what you would consider direct spiritual experience. i just dont attribute them to god anymore. ive had many of the experiences i have read about and talked with priests who agreed they were genuine but i also see similar experiences in buddhism for instance. these may simply be states of mind or imagined after having been read about.
but how can i know these are a direct experience with god? how can anyone make such a claim?
i actually feel the opposite of all of these. i am suffocating and drowning from the lack of anything BUT spiritual air.
i have desired to give every bit of myself to god since my conversion long ago and at times i have upset my entire family in the process. i nearly joined a religious order, i moved away from catholicism into conservative fundamentalism and nearly lost my family through that experience as well (which, btw, i would have been happy to give up if i had known that it was what god wanted). ive been very attracted to detachment, abandonment, embracing the cross, etc. all of my religious life.
and now i am without faith. why? b/c i have spent a great majority of my religious life worried that i am in the wrong place doing the wrong things and in reality, there is no way for anyone to know these things in the first place. there are too many claims, all contradicting one another. god could not possibly expect us, in our ignorance, to recognize the truth when what religions claim to be evidence is so completely vague and easily attributed to something ordinary.
i realize that i cannot prove god doesn’t exist, but it makes little sense that he would exist only to leave us with all of these uncertainties about him and only these vague indications for the possibility of his existence. and if that is where i am supposed to be in my faith (that gods existence is just a possibility) then what next? you cant build a rule of life on a slim possibility. you can’t join the church of maybe christ.
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fadingfaith
Guest
north, can you please recommend some links where i can study some of this?
thanks.
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steve_b
Guest
abiogenesis, is the study of how life on earth could have arisen from inanimate matter (life from completely dead matter)
God did it with Adam and Eve, now I want to see science duplicate that.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
I used a metaphor of captive Jews in bondage to Pharaoh in Egypt for fun. Ignorance is bondage when it keeps us from attaining to our full potential - which is most often the case since morally proper knowledge empowers.i’m glad youre back james
why is ignorance bondage?
We depend on “something” to do something for us every day. We look for the sun to come up in the morning. We hope for good weather and rain for crops. We look for our mothers to care for us when we are infants. etc. etc. Don’t you think the general pattern of need-and-provision is a natural pattern that might scale in the general sense and imply an underlying benevolence and provisioning as part of nature itself? It has interesting implications about a moral responsibility that nature has to provide for that which it creates. A moral code in and of itself a non-concrete concept that in and of itself implies a spiritual dominion and perhaps a different “unseen” nature to ourselves as well. At some point the induction leads to the real logical possibility of a spiritual world and a whole new order that we can not see.
Why not enjoy what we see? What if somone else sees it first and wants to enjoy it without sharing?
Heathens do pretty much this. But I digress… What if some far looking people told you that there is much more to be seen through spiritual eyes and therefore much more to be enjoyed? What if somone could see so far beyond that they told you they can see real possibilities for radically transforming your very nature to elevate yourself to be able to have unlimited happiness if we did some things to be able to enjoy that? Wouldn’t working toward that unlimited happiness be a joy in itself even if it took away time and required sacrifice?Why not make the most of it for ourselves and those around us? That is the idea actually. But what if we we were given things (life, food, shelter, and time) in limited proportions sufficient to sustain us to a journey to a place where we could have all the time we wanted to enjoy much more? What if we were given all this because we were created to do somthing important for whoever it was that left us all these goodies and we did not do it? If we were selfish and failed to do that thing do you imagine that would lead to a very long lived happiness and enjoyment? What if one of the things we were supposed to do was discover who it was that gave us all the things around us and our lives? Wouldn’t you want to meet them and say “thanks” and hang out with them and learn more about such an interesting person who can give you life?
why must there be something else with something more to offer? Why doubt that when all of those twinkling stars in the evening sky tell us that there is infinitely more to know and see and do “out there”? Are you not in the least curious? It sure looks to me like somone or something is trying to tell us “look at what I did - enjoy but come hither and see what else!”. I’d say all the signs tell us that we have been invited to see what more is offered…
Contentment can be bliss - no question about that. And some of us (myself included) have spent a lot of time investing in a future in the here and now that might not ever come and have not “lived for now” to the same degree as others have. I don’t know if that was a mistake or not. But if one is given wings (spiritual) and feet why would one want to limit oneself to there “here and now” as the only possibility and just walking along the ground and not considering the possibility of soaring past the foreseeable limits of moral life and seeing “what’s out there”? We could all be content in the nest and never get out of it - unless mom pushed us out
. But it sure seems to me that we are given a natural appetite to go see what other things are “out there” to be seen or experienced to related with.I would recommend that you explore if your difficulties with spirituality-religious ideas are more personality driven from a preference for risk aversion - a natural desire for tera firma over more abstract and intangible concepts that might not have certainty of paying off.
Do you enjoy gambling or games of chance or would you find more contentment in solving a jigsaw puzzle that you know could be solved?
[continued]
James
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CentralFLJames
Guest
[continued from above]
As for conflicting religions - I can empathize here since withing Christianity there are potentially 35,000 or so more “choices” on the roulette table that could be wrong or at least not optimum. Of course it could all come up double zero and we all loose if the games rigged or there is no pot. But if there was one plausible chance out of 35,000 to win an eternity of bliss and happiness and purpose and you had one chip to play and could study different claims from what the best “bets” seem to be and you had nothing to loose by at least playing wouldn’t you be inclined to place that wager rather than dropping the chip on the floor and hanging out at the bar drinking cocktails till it came time to close down the place? This is a variation on Pascal’s Wager.
Now consider that if God is benevolent and listens to us and wants us to be all we can be don’t you think he might lead us to make the right decision if we sought to get his guidance or listened for what he might be trying to tell us?
What if working through the challenge of knowing how to choose is all part of what God gives us to discern who is worthy of Him and really knows Him? It seems to me that a child seeks out its parent’s voice and features. Maybe this is why her permits so many choices - to prove his children?
I disagree with your comment: “IF there is a designer to this universe he/it is far superior to us and we could never come close to ever knowing who or what he is”. If such a designer (Creator) exists then it is within His power to reveal whatever he wants to us and make it possible for us to comprehend to what ever degree He desires. Even if he only permits a baby step into the Divine mind it would be a universe above what we know now. That alone is compelling enough to warrant exploring options.
If Columbus stayed within the waters he had charted we never would have found the Americas. One thing is universal to the human nature - insatiable thirst for knowledge and discovering the universe and what created it that is “out there” waiting to be experienced. The pattern I see is a constant natural come-hither call. That sure sounds like God left us something in us to go discover Him. Frankly I think he is proud of His work and wants to share His excitement with us (that implies to me an elevation of nature and a relationship with the Creator as a reward). If it turns out that we are the only life in the universe then we have a moral obligation to self to go claim it all and figure out how to make it all work for us.
James
A few thoughts. Don’t you think if God did exist we would have a pretty sure bet in coming up with at least general concepts that held? Would you not admit that God is more likely than not benevolent, unimaginably intelligent and powerful with omniscient insight, ordered and intrinsically fair and just?
As for conflicting religions - I can empathize here since withing Christianity there are potentially 35,000 or so more “choices” on the roulette table that could be wrong or at least not optimum. Of course it could all come up double zero and we all loose if the games rigged or there is no pot. But if there was one plausible chance out of 35,000 to win an eternity of bliss and happiness and purpose and you had one chip to play and could study different claims from what the best “bets” seem to be and you had nothing to loose by at least playing wouldn’t you be inclined to place that wager rather than dropping the chip on the floor and hanging out at the bar drinking cocktails till it came time to close down the place?
This is a variation on Pascal’s Wager.Now consider that if God is benevolent and listens to us and wants us to be all we can be don’t you think he might lead us to make the right decision if we sought to get his guidance or listened for what he might be trying to tell us?
Actually from a pure odds perspective the odds compared to winning a state lotto are extraordinarily good - especially if the pot in infinite as we believe.
What if working through the challenge of knowing how to choose is all part of what God gives us to discern who is worthy of Him and really knows Him? It seems to me that a child seeks out its parent’s voice and features. Maybe this is why her permits so many choices - to prove his children?
If God is not benevolent - we are all screwed and can’t do a thing about it. Relative to eternity whatever we do here is irrelevant if God punishes everyone or cosigns us to oblivion - this is the pessimist view. But the possibility that he is benevolent supersedes all other considerations since hope and optimism is always to be preferred to despair and pessimism.
I disagree with your comment: “IF there is a designer to this universe he/it is far superior to us and we could never come close to ever knowing who or what he is”. If such a designer (Creator) exists then it is within His power to reveal whatever he wants to us and make it possible for us to comprehend to what ever degree He desires. Even if he only permits a baby step into the Divine mind it would be a universe above what we know now. That alone is compelling enough to warrant exploring options.
If Columbus stayed within the waters he had charted we never would have found the Americas. One thing is universal to the human nature - insatiable thirst for knowledge and discovering the universe and what created it that is “out there” waiting to be experienced. The pattern I see is a constant natural come-hither call. That sure sounds like God left us something in us to go discover Him. Frankly I think he is proud of His work and wants to share His excitement with us (that implies to me an elevation of nature and a relationship with the Creator as a reward). If it turns out that we are the only life in the universe then we have a moral obligation to self to go claim it all and figure out how to make it all work for us.
James
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North_of_Nod
Guest
Certainly. Here are some links:
icr.org/article/3140/
icr.org/article/460/
godandscience.org/evolution/replicator_vs_metabolism.html
mbbc.us/creation/life.htm
reasons.org/fulfilled-prophecy-evidence-reliability-bible
faithfacts.org/search-for-truth/maps/statistics-of-the-bibles-power
gotquestions.org/seventy-sevens.html
allaboutarchaeology.org/dead-sea-scrolls.htm
apologeticspress.org/examinetheevidence/
nctimes.com/articles/2007/07/26/faith/21_13_557_19_07.txt
onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=387754
handwritingfoundation.org/deadsea.htm
I also recommend the book *101 Reasons You Can Believe * by Ralph O. Muncaster. The author is a former atheist and engineer who spent 15 years of his life trying to disprove the Bible. What he found in his extensive research actually convinced him that Christianity is much more credible and provable than atheism - or any other religion, for that matter.
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Shredderbeam
Guest
The first cell wouldn’t appear “from nothing”, as the Earth and the materials required existed well before life began.
"steve b:
How are those things miracles?
Nobody is seriously suggesting that a modern cell appeared out of nowhere, all of its intricate parts having randomly assembled themselves. If life began spontaneously, then it would probably have gone through several stages before being considered a cell (also, note that the first cells need not have been as complex as today’s cells are).
North of Nod:
That’s very interesting. Did this Daniel fellow predict the future in plain language, or did he use vague metaphors and symbolism that need to be interpreted?
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North_of_Nod
Guest
To fading:
The following exerpts from Scripture also predict Christ’s crucifixion:
Isaiah 53 - Discusses the fact that Christ was “spurned,” bore “the guilt of us all,” and also states, “He was pierced for us all” (the life-giving blood and water poured forth), "He was smitten for the sin of his people,“If he gives his life as an offering for sin, he shall see his descendants in a long life, and the will of the LORD shall be accomplished through him.” These are just a few verses, but there are many more contained within Isaiah 53.
Psalm 69 - Foreshadows Christ’s anguish when he bore the sins of the world. For example: “Do not hide your face from your servant; in my distress hasten to answer me…Insult has broken my heart, and I am weak; I looked for compassion, but there was none, for comforters, but found none. Instead they have put gall in my food; for my thirst they gave me vinegar.” (Psalm 69:18-22).
Psalm 22 - Discusses the cruel treatment of Jesus. This all came to be true:
“Many dogs surround me; a pack of evildoers closes in on me…All who see me mock me; they curl their lips and jeer; they shake their heads at me: 'You relied on the LORD - let him deliver you.” (indeed the Cross was surrounded by people who mocked and jeered Jesus, saying that if he is truly the Son of God, he could remove himself from the Cross). “So wasted are my hands and feet…they divide my garments among them; for my clothing they cast lots…But you, LORD, do not stay far off; come quickly to help me” (prophesied 1000 years in advance, the garments were divided among the greedy onlookers. During his last moments, Christ called out to God to deliver him. Psalm 22:20)
Zechariah 12:10-14 - Also foreshadows the piercing of Jesus: " I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and petition; and they shall look on him who they have thrust through, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only son, and they shall grieve over him as one grieves over a firstborn" (After Christ gave up his life and his body had been pierced to ensure his death, one of the guards stated: “Surely, this was the Son of God.” Earthquakes followed and frightened many. Matthew 27:54). There was also great sadness and mourning, particularly on the part of his believers.
You will also find non-Christian text supporting his cruel treatment and crucifixion. It predates Christ considerably, and at the time of these predictions, the practice of crucifixion had not been invented. If you would like, I’ll also post some parts discussing Christ’s miracles, healings, etc. Each passage speaks plainly with no symbolism. Everything happened exactly as foretold.
The following exerpts from Scripture also predict Christ’s crucifixion:
Isaiah 53 - Discusses the fact that Christ was “spurned,” bore “the guilt of us all,” and also states, “He was pierced for us all” (the life-giving blood and water poured forth), "He was smitten for the sin of his people,“If he gives his life as an offering for sin, he shall see his descendants in a long life, and the will of the LORD shall be accomplished through him.” These are just a few verses, but there are many more contained within Isaiah 53.
Psalm 69 - Foreshadows Christ’s anguish when he bore the sins of the world. For example: “Do not hide your face from your servant; in my distress hasten to answer me…Insult has broken my heart, and I am weak; I looked for compassion, but there was none, for comforters, but found none. Instead they have put gall in my food; for my thirst they gave me vinegar.” (Psalm 69:18-22).
Psalm 22 - Discusses the cruel treatment of Jesus. This all came to be true:
“Many dogs surround me; a pack of evildoers closes in on me…All who see me mock me; they curl their lips and jeer; they shake their heads at me: 'You relied on the LORD - let him deliver you.” (indeed the Cross was surrounded by people who mocked and jeered Jesus, saying that if he is truly the Son of God, he could remove himself from the Cross). “So wasted are my hands and feet…they divide my garments among them; for my clothing they cast lots…But you, LORD, do not stay far off; come quickly to help me” (prophesied 1000 years in advance, the garments were divided among the greedy onlookers. During his last moments, Christ called out to God to deliver him. Psalm 22:20)
Zechariah 12:10-14 - Also foreshadows the piercing of Jesus: " I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and petition; and they shall look on him who they have thrust through, and they shall mourn for him as one mourns for an only son, and they shall grieve over him as one grieves over a firstborn" (After Christ gave up his life and his body had been pierced to ensure his death, one of the guards stated: “Surely, this was the Son of God.” Earthquakes followed and frightened many. Matthew 27:54). There was also great sadness and mourning, particularly on the part of his believers.
You will also find non-Christian text supporting his cruel treatment and crucifixion. It predates Christ considerably, and at the time of these predictions, the practice of crucifixion had not been invented. If you would like, I’ll also post some parts discussing Christ’s miracles, healings, etc. Each passage speaks plainly with no symbolism. Everything happened exactly as foretold.
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fadingfaith
Guest
thanks. my next question was what extra-biblical, non christian evidence do we have that jesus was crucified, or that if he was crucified, all of these things were fulfilled? i dont recall ever having come across any. i think there are a few nonchristian writings that mention christians and 1 or 2 that actually mention jesus and the credibility of those documents is contested. like josephus, and pliny the younger i believe? its been a while but i dont recall finding anything substantial that verifies jesus actually filled these prophesies but if you can provide something id like to take a look at it.
thanks.
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North_of_Nod
Guest
To fading:
The Jewish Talmud (roughly 200 B.C. to A.D. 200) and other records (post- crucifixion) refer to Jesus’ miracles. The Jews had every reason to dispute Christ’s miracles, but they did acknowledge the validity of his works. The Talmud confirms that Jesus:
evolutionfairytale.com/bibleevidences/archeology.htm
The above link discusses Sir William Ramsay and his archaeological findings that support the Bible.
exchangedlife.com/Sermons/Psalms/psalm_22.shtml
This link discusses the Talmud.
Since everything thusfar has proven true, we have no reason to doubt the crucifixion. Even his arch enemies acknowledge this, even as they seek to deny his divinity.
The Jewish Talmud (roughly 200 B.C. to A.D. 200) and other records (post- crucifixion) refer to Jesus’ miracles. The Jews had every reason to dispute Christ’s miracles, but they did acknowledge the validity of his works. The Talmud confirms that Jesus:
- existed
- was crucified on the Eve of Passover
- performed miracles
- led many astray from Jewish teachings
- was the target of Jewish leaders’ plot to kill Him
evolutionfairytale.com/bibleevidences/archeology.htm
The above link discusses Sir William Ramsay and his archaeological findings that support the Bible.
exchangedlife.com/Sermons/Psalms/psalm_22.shtml
This link discusses the Talmud.
Since everything thusfar has proven true, we have no reason to doubt the crucifixion. Even his arch enemies acknowledge this, even as they seek to deny his divinity.
N
North_of_Nod
Guest
Fading, did you see the links I posted previously too? They may help as well.
A
anEvilAtheist
Guest
If you stay a Christian, I hope you do it for good reasons. I just looked at a few of the links, and they greatly misrepresent the facts. Also, if you look at who they cite, they cite people like Michael Behe. Behe was recently a key witness in the Kitzmiller vs. Dover case in which a religious Bush-appointed judge decided that intelligent design was unscientific and should not be taught in schools. Behe claimed that intelligent design was legitimate science, though he was forced to admit that by his definition, you would also have to accept things like astrology or phrenology as legitimate science. Behe also repeatedly makes claims that are just plain false. He claims that the bacterial flagellum and human eye are irreducibly complex and could not have evolved. However, both are fairly easy for biologists to explain. Behe also makes claims that life could not have initially arisen (without some outside force) because it would be unlikely for molecules to suddenly join together into a fully-formed cell. But this is not what scientists are arguing. They argue that initially the cells that formed were incredibly basic and these cells could easily have formed. Given all the space in the oceans, and hundreds of millions of years, it is not terribly unlikely that at least one extremely simple cell would form (and evolution could have taken over from there). I think the main problem with intelligent design is that it doesn’t take much time to make a bunch of assertions, but it can take a long time to explain why each of those assertions is wrong. So I’m not even going to attempt to identify all the inaccuracies in these links. But if you want to know more about the evidence for and against intelligent design, I urge you to research the Kitzmiller vs. Dover case because that was a situation in which both sides tried to make the best possible case they could.
I also have done some research into the archeological evidence for the existence of God, and concluded that it’s very weak. But you’re certainly free to reach your own conclusions. I just wanted to make sure you understand that the links you were given are extraordinarily one-sided, and I wouldn’t assume that any of their claims are true unless you really research what both sides have to say on the issue.
F
fadingfaith
Guest
i did see them. i havent looked at them all yet though so i haven’t commented. bible prophecy isnt something ive looked at very much in the past.
F
fadingfaith
Guest
even if i find the evidence compelling many of my original concerns would still remain. this would mean that the only proof for gods existence is contained within bible prophesy. the bible is complicated and not everyone has a good understanding of history. so hinging my faith on something like bible prophesy is like saying the proofs for the existence of god are hidden in bible prophesy and history.
i dont know, i dont want to dismiss it before i even read it. it just doesnt make much sense to me.
N
North_of_Nod
Guest
The archaeological evidence is for events that occurred in the Bible, not necessarily the footprints of God Himself. It is a testament to the integrity of His Word. There is also a lot of circumstantial evidence in the way even non-Christians behaved at the time. There are no provable slip-ups anywhere to be found. With all due respect, I have looked at both sides of the case. I have also yet to see anyone dispute the Biblical passages cited. If you were to present your case for atheism, I could accuse that case of being terribly one-sided as well, simply by virtue of the fact that it makes an argument for one side. I respect you and your opinion, but I cannot see the “why” answered in strictly anatomical terms. The conscience is not necessary for survival, yet we have one. The same goes for personality. What evolutionary purpose do they serve? Humans are far superior to any other life form; there are many marked differences. What makes any of this unique to humans? Why would we need to do anything but hunt, eat, sleep, and reproduce like animals? Why, why, why? Scientists, for all their intelligence, cannot provide a satisfactory answer. The theorists who oppose God spend a lot of time refuting and little time giving actual evidence to answer the fundamental “whys.”
N
North_of_Nod
Guest
It was nice meeting you both, but I think I am going to move on to a different thread. Thanks for sharing your insights and questions, and I wish you the best of luck. Fading, if you have any other questions, please feel free to message me at any time. AnEvilAtheist, thanks for your time and discussion. 
F
fadingfaith
Guest
thanks for your contributions and your offerIt was nice meeting you both, but I think I am going to move on to a different thread. Thanks for sharing your insights and questions, and I wish you the best of luck. Fading, if you have any other questions, please feel free to message me at any time. AnEvilAtheist, thanks for your time and discussion.
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