My neighbor's biggest complaint about Catholics

[DebChris]

No she is not asking if Catholics are brainwashed - she does seem to be stating a deeply held belief. Like I get the feeling if I ever tried to talk about my Catholic faith
she would just roll her eyes and let me know she is not interested. I have tried opening a door and am usually open to anyone asking me anything. I am not
pushy about it.
I stopped attending the Bible study she was going to at a certain church because
one morning one of the leaders said how lucky we all were that Martin Luther came
along. I finished the book we were doing, but it was a protestant Bible study and
I did here a couple of other comments during the 5-6 week study that made me feel as a Catholic I did not feel comfortable there. I never told her why I didn’t choose
to return, so I don’t know maybe she has heard other people say Catholics are brainwashed among this group of women and just joins in.

I’ve listened silently while members in an Assembly of God church prayed for the conversion of Catholics.
After the service, I spoke to one of the members about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It was only at that time that I revealed I was Catholic. Startled, she exclaimed, “I didn’t know Catholics believed that!”

It is right that you not return to a place of worship where you are made uncomfortable. You don’t need to provide a reason.

I have seen anti-Catholic literature. Facebook posts memes stating it’s not about religion, it’s about a relationship. Televangelists preach a health and wealth gospel. What is our response to be? We know what the Catholic Church teaches. We can show where this is in line with scripture, which comes from the Church. The health and wealth gospel is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Apostles preached Jesus crucified and risen from the dead. Our Lord said He would not leave us orphaned, but would send an Advocate, His Holy Spirit to be with us. Do you not know that you are the Temple of the Holy Spirit? The letter to Timothy talks about this religion to which we belong.
Our Lord was called Beelzebub. He responded that house divided cannot stand. He pointed to the absurdity of the accusation against Him. Those who make the same accusations against His Church are blind and deaf to what is in front of them.
St. Theresa of Lisieux says there comes a point when you simply leave the other person in his or her error. We trust in God. Faith is a gift. We pray for God to give that gift to a certain person, to open his or her eyes and heart. The Faith response, the act of will, against which even God does not act, must come from the person.
As difficult as it is, sometimes silent patience is the best approach. When the person is ready, he or she will come to you.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I’ve listened silently while members in an Assembly of God church prayed for the conversion of Catholics.
After the service, I spoke to one of the members about the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. It was only at that time that I revealed I was Catholic. Startled, she exclaimed, “I didn’t know Catholics believed that!”

It is right that you not return to a place of worship where you are made uncomfortable. You don’t need to provide a reason.

I have seen anti-Catholic literature. Facebook posts memes stating it’s not about religion, it’s about a relationship. Televangelists preach a health and wealth gospel. What is our response to be? We know what the Catholic Church teaches. We can show where this is in line with scripture, which comes from the Church. The health and wealth gospel is not the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Apostles preached Jesus crucified and risen from the dead. Our Lord said He would not leave us orphaned, but would send an Advocate, His Holy Spirit to be with us. Do you not know that you are the Temple of the Holy Spirit? The letter to Timothy talks about this religion to which we belong.
Our Lord was called Beelzebub. He responded that house divided cannot stand. He pointed to the absurdity of the accusation against Him. Those who make the same accusations against His Church are blind and deaf to what is in front of them.
St. Theresa of Lisieux says there comes a point when you simply leave the other person in his or her error. We trust in God. Faith is a gift. We pray for God to give that gift to a certain person, to open his or her eyes and heart. The Faith response, the act of will, against which even God does not act, must come from the person.
As difficult as it is, sometimes silent patience is the best approach. When the person is ready, he or she will come to you.

Thanks! Well said.

 

[Todd977]

How would you reply to a neighbor or friend who thinks Catholics are brainwashed?

What does she mean by “brainwashed”? Is that simply her way of saying she disagrees with some things the Catholic Church teaches? If so, which Catholic teachings does she disagree with? Without knowing her specific objection(s), it will be difficult to respond. What I can say to such a general statement is that I have found there is very little that the Catholic Church teaches that cannot be supported by Sacred Scripture and other writings of early Christians.

 

[TheCuriousCat]

How would you reply to a neighbor or friend who thinks Catholics are brainwashed?
She is a Christian. She doesn’t attend a regular church. I briefly attended a Bible study at her church and have invited her to a couple of events at my church, but she
always declines. Any advice appreciated.

It does upset me when she says this, but I would like to answer her calmly and
with a good and definitive answer.

As an atheist who used to be Catholic, I can completely relate to dealing with people who are convinced that they know what I believe better than I do.

The thing that really struck me about your dilemma is that you (who are apparently brainwashed) are willing to go to her church, but she is unwilling to go to yours. Honestly, if I were you, I would be tempted to start with showing her the definition of “brainwashed” in the dictionary.

The other thing that popped into my head was one of my favourite sayings from when I was Catholic: “Preech the Gospel always. When necessary, use words.”

 

[minkymurph]

I think the ‘Oh’ response is a good one.

You can also simply say, ‘Your entitled to your opinion.’

Another thing I do when people say things like this is agree with them - it depends what mood I am in and how awkward or annoying I want to be.

If someone says ‘You are brainwashed’ and you reply, ‘Absolutely.’ They know your response isn’t genuine, but it indicates you don’t feel the need to defend yourself which is what they are expecting, and also that you don’t really care whether they think you are brainwashed or not. If they persist in telling you you are brainwashed resort to logic.

To illustrate: 'I just agreed with you that I am brainwashed, but if I know I am brainwashed then I can’t actually be brainwashed - can I? If I was brainwashed I wouldn’t know I was brainwashed, would I? If I am brainwashed I’m not going to believe I am as people who are in fact brainwashed don’t know they are. If I’m not brainwashed then I am not going to believe I am. There’s not much point in telling me I’m brainwashed - is there?

 

[7_Sorrows]

As an atheist who used to be Catholic, I can completely relate to dealing with people who are convinced that they know what I believe better than I do.

The thing that really struck me about your dilemma is that you (who are apparently brainwashed) are willing to go to her church, but she is unwilling to go to yours. Honestly, if I were you, I would be tempted to start with showing her the definition of “brainwashed” in the dictionary.

The other thing that popped into my head was one of my favourite sayings from when I was Catholic: “Preech the Gospel always. When necessary, use words.”

She doesn’t belong to a church so she doesn’t have a church. She invited me to a
women’s Bible study held at a Methodist church, but she did not belong to that
church. She reads the Bible everyday with her husband and sometimes attends a non-denominational church with my daughter-in-law so I would pretty much categorize her as a sola scriptural protestant.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I think the ‘Oh’ response is a good one.

You can also simply say, ‘Your entitled to your opinion.’

Another thing I do when people say things like this is agree with them - it depends what mood I am in and how awkward or annoying I want to be.

If someone says ‘You are brainwashed’ and you reply, ‘Absolutely.’ They know your response isn’t genuine, but it indicates you don’t feel the need to defend yourself which is what they are expecting, and also that you don’t really care whether they think you are brainwashed or not. If they persist in telling you you are brainwashed resort to logic.

To illustrate: 'I just agreed with you that I am brainwashed, but if I know I am brainwashed then I can’t actually be brainwashed - can I? If I was brainwashed I wouldn’t know I was brainwashed, would I? If I am brainwashed I’m not going to believe I am as people who are in fact brainwashed don’t know they are. If I’m not brainwashed then I am not going to believe I am. There’s not much point in telling me I’m brainwashed - is there?

I think I kind of nervously chuckled, but then I got mad at myself and telling myself I can’t
let her get by with this as this is the second time I have heard her make the remark.
I am going to ask her the next time how she thinks we are brainwashed. I need to defend
my faith, not let someone make a joke about it!

 

[7_Sorrows]

What does she mean by “brainwashed”? Is that simply her way of saying she disagrees with some things the Catholic Church teaches? If so, which Catholic teachings does she disagree with? Without knowing her specific objection(s), it will be difficult to respond. What I can say to such a general statement is that I have found there is very little that the Catholic Church teaches that cannot be supported by Sacred Scripture and other writings of early Christians.

I totally agree.

 

[DebChris]

She doesn’t belong to a church so she doesn’t have a church. She invited me to a
women’s Bible study held at a Methodist church, but she did not belong to that
church. She reads the Bible everyday with her husband and sometimes attends a non-denominational church with my daughter-in-law so I would pretty much categorize her as a sola scriptural protestant.

I recommend Pat Madrid’s Where is That in the Bible? He uses a six word sentence to demonstrate how changing the emphasis on a different word in the sentence can change the entire meaning of the sentence. He also recommends using the RSV when dialoguing with non-Catholics. It is the most commonly used translation by different denominations.
The Catholic Answer Bible is another excellent source. It was recommended for the Bible Study at my parish in the Middle East.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

She doesn’t belong to a church so she doesn’t have a church. She invited me to a
women’s Bible study held at a Methodist church, but she did not belong to that
church. She reads the Bible everyday with her husband and sometimes attends a non-denominational church with my daughter-in-law so I would pretty much categorize her as a sola scriptural protestant.

And many who fall into this camp come to the conclusion that they can not be wrong or make mistakes with their assertions. They come into the discussion with all their theological presuppositions and you wont get a word in as you end up just talking past them.

You really have to erase the blackboard and ask simple questions that might offend…

Luther, who subtracted 7 OT books from your bible, also wanted to toss “Jimmy”(epistle of James) into the fire. Can he make a mistake? How about you? Can you make a mistake?

They are often narrow minded, get offended very easily and have to be treated with kid gloves. And some of these people are highly educated and understand critical thinking…but they get ahold of John 16:13 and think they can’t be in error.

A good little snippet on SS that helps people understand how easy it is to misinterpret the scriptures.:

youtube.com/watch?v=NnwHATcBbNE&t

 

[7_Sorrows]

I recommend Pat Madrid’s Where is That in the Bible? He uses a six word sentence to demonstrate how changing the emphasis on a different word in the sentence can change the entire meaning of the sentence. He also recommends using the RSV when dialoguing with non-Catholics. It is the most commonly used translation by different denominations.
The Catholic Answer Bible is another excellent source. It was recommended for the Bible Study at my parish in the Middle East.

I actually have The Catholic Answers Bible!

 

[7_Sorrows]

And many who fall into this camp come to the conclusion that they can not be wrong or make mistakes with their assertions. They come into the discussion with all their theological presuppositions and you wont get a word in as you end up just talking past them.

You really have to erase the blackboard and ask simple questions that might offend…

Luther, who subtracted 7 OT books from your bible, also wanted to toss “Jimmy”(epistle of James) into the fire. Can he make a mistake? How about you? Can you make a mistake?

They are often narrow minded, get offended very easily and have to be treated with kid gloves. And some of these people are highly educated and understand critical thinking…but they get ahold of John 16:13 and think they can’t be in error.

A good little snippet on SS that helps people understand how easy it is to misinterpret the scriptures.:

youtube.com/watch?v=NnwHATcBbNE&t

Thanks for posting. A lot of good videos on that page. Patrick Madrid is good.
I just finished reading Surprised by Truth 2 by him. I have not read the first one yet.

One thing I noticed about myself when I was a protestant is that there is a certain amount of proudness one has when they think they are interpreting the scripture.
And I think pride or being proud is one of the big reasons people are anti-Catholic.
Oh, they are brainwashed they proclaim. But it is scary out there alone in the world depending on your own self knowledge to interpret what you are reading. I know that to be Catholic there has to be humbleness to submit to the Pope and the Magesterium and I see my neighbor right now being how I used to be - too proud.
I will do it my way and figure it out myself! I don’t need the Catholic Church!
Until I finally realized I did need the Church.

 

[minkymurph]

I think I kind of nervously chuckled, but then I got mad at myself and telling myself I can’t
let her get by with this as this is the second time I have heard her make the remark.
I am going to ask her the next time how she thinks we are brainwashed. I need to defend
my faith, not let someone make a joke about it!

If someone keeps saying it then yes a response is warranted, I just wouldn’t get into trying to prove your not brainwashed as this lends weight to the argument.

Another strategy I use is to keep asking questions, synonymous with a small child who keeps asking ‘why?’ - just a bit more advanced.

You’ll not change her opinion but if you persistently ask someone questions sooner or later they will run out of answers, and hopefully get fed up saying what they are saying.

Suggestions:

‘Why are you telling me you think I’m brainwashed?’ ‘Do you think if you say this often enough I will eventually agree and change my religion?’ ‘Is that not a form of brainwashing?’

‘Do you think anyone other than Catholics are brainwashed?’

‘Do you think anyone in your faith is brainwashed?’

‘Do you think all Catholics are brainwashed or just me?’

If the answer is all Catholics - ‘Is that all Catholics right through history - including Pope’s and Cardinals?’ ‘Do you think Catholics are particularly gullible?’ ‘More so than any other faith?’

If the answer is just you - ‘Why just me?’

Do you see where I’m going?

 

[7_Sorrows]

If someone keeps saying it then yes a response is warranted, I just wouldn’t get into trying to prove your not brainwashed as this lends weight to the argument.

Another strategy I use is to keep asking questions, synonymous with a small child who keeps asking ‘why?’ - just a bit more advanced.

You’ll not change her opinion but if you persistently ask someone questions sooner or later they will run out of answers, and hopefully get fed up saying what they are saying.

Suggestions:

‘Why are you telling me you think I’m brainwashed?’ ‘Do you think if you say this often enough I will eventually agree and change my religion?’ ‘Is that not a form of brainwashing?’

‘Do you think anyone other than Catholics are brainwashed?’

‘Do you think anyone in your faith is brainwashed?’

‘Do you think all Catholics are brainwashed or just me?’

If the answer is all Catholics - ‘Is that all Catholics right through history - including Pope’s and Cardinals?’ ‘Do you think Catholics are particularly gullible?’ ‘More so than any other faith?’

If the answer is just you - ‘Why just me?’

Do you see where I’m going?

She never told me personally that I am brainwashed. She referred to Catholics in
general - all of us.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Thanks for posting. A lot of good videos on that page. Patrick Madrid is good.
I just finished reading Surprised by Truth 2 by him. I have not read the first one yet.

One thing I noticed about myself when I was a protestant is that there is a certain amount of proudness one has when they think they are interpreting the scripture.
And I think pride or being proud is one of the big reasons people are anti-Catholic.
Oh, they are brainwashed they proclaim. But it is scary out there alone in the world depending on your own self knowledge to interpret what you are reading. I know that to be Catholic there has to be humbleness to submit to the Pope and the Magesterium and I see my neighbor right now being how I used to be - too proud.
I will do it my way and figure it out myself! I don’t need the Catholic Church!
Until I finally realized I did need the Church.

You are 100% correct, 7 sorrows.

I recall last year when i told my protestant family I’m now a Catholic convert…one of them started getting angry and loud in the discussion. I kept my cool and answered all his objections(Thank you, John Martignoni) and finally got him to let his guard down a little about the faith.

I didn’t really attack the flaws of protestantism much because they can be so proud and self confident(and hair triggered)… But I did make a few valid points(all generations will call me blessed, protestants!!)

This is a neighbor you are dealing with and not family, so I doubt it comes down to a shouting match between you two like it did for me. But if you can get these people to see it isn’t the Church they hate, it’s their false perception of it they don’t like, then you make some progress. And if you can go a step further and get them to somehow see they can make mistakes in their interpretation of the NT, you can make enormous progress.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

She never told me personally that I am brainwashed. She referred to Catholics in
general - all of us.

Yeah, that’s a very insulting comment she made.

If someone ever tells me that personally, I will respond with this

Jesus said :

Matthew 28:19-20GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

19 So wherever you go, make disciples of all nations: Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. 20 **Teach them to do everything I have commanded you.
**
“And remember that I am always with you until the end of time.”

Notice he doesn’t say hand everyone a copy of the NT and let them figure things out on their own. So it sounds like a little ‘brainwashing’, for lack of a better term, is the idea here. Obey it all and submit to the authoritative Church he established…By honoring the clergy, you honor God. This is what Ignatius of Antioch taught and he is about as early church as you can get, post apostolic.

I love my protestant brothers and sisters in Christ…but much of it is so far removed from historical Christianity, that you really don’t where to start when addressing these issues.

 

[steve_b]

How would you reply to a neighbor or friend who thinks Catholics are brainwashed?
She is a Christian. She doesn’t attend a regular church. I briefly attended a Bible study at her church and have invited her to a couple of events at my church, but she
always declines. Any advice appreciated.

Easy answer, Find a bible study in the Catholic Church.
7:

It does upset me when she says this, but I would like to answer her calmly and
with a good and definitive answer.

speaking of bible study

what did Paul say to Bp Titus re: interaction with someone like this? Titus 3:10-11]

What is the definition of heresy
2089
"*Heresy *is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;

You say this person is a “Christian” meaning she was baptized. And Paul is talking to Titus about what to do with the baptized who go off the rails.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Easy answer, Find a bible study in the Catholic Church.

speaking of bible study

what did Paul say to Bp Titus re: interaction with someone like this? Titus 3:10-11]

What is the definition of heresy
2089
"*Heresy *is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same;

You say this person is a “Christian” meaning she was baptized. And Paul is talking to Titus about what to do with the baptized who go off the rails.

I assume she was baptized, but don’t know for sure. I will ask her the next time the moment comes up about her baptism and what church she was baptized in.

 

[DebChris]

I assume she was baptized, but don’t know for sure. I will ask her the next time the moment comes up about her baptism and what church she was baptized in.

Even Baptism can be a subject leading to headed discussion as I’ve discovered. The woman talked about how she had left the Pentecostal church that she had been attending and returned to the Baptist church of her childhood. When I mentioned Baptism, she started saying how Baptism wasn’t necessary. I backed off in order to keep the situation under control.
It might be best if she brings up the subject. There are some churches that leave Baptism until adulthood. Even if she calls herself Christian, she may not have been Baptized yet.

 

[steve_b]

I assume she was baptized, but don’t know for sure. *** I will ask her the next time the moment comes up about her baptism*** and what church she was baptized in.

That would be a good start.