My observations and suggestions

[LakaYaRabb]

There are several things bothering me here at CAF.

First, stop refeting to a Church as a Rite. There are six major rites of the Catholic Church.

There are over 20 Churches that use a particular rite.

A person does not belong to a rite, he belongs to a Church.

A Church uses a rite.

A Patriarch is not over a Bishop. No Bishop is over another.

Eastern Catholics are not Roman: not in Theology, Spirituality or Liturgy.

Writing posts that are extremely rude and uneducated about the Christian East will turn people off.

If I have offeneded anyone, this sinner asks forgiveness.

God grant you all many years.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Don’t be too hard.

I know a man who was raised Roman Catholic, went to church schools through high school–and didn’t even know about the Eastern Churcnes in communion with Rome (his favorite phrase) until he was nearly 50.

 

[Woodstock]

A person does not belong to a rite, he belongs to a Church.

Unless that person is western. Then he belongs to the rite and the rite belongs to the Latin Church.

 

[East_and_West]

Writing posts that are extremely rude and uneducated about the Christian East will turn people off.

Those of us Latins who post statements concerning the lack of unity between the Eastern and Western faiths are not uneducated nor are we rude. We simply believe that Body of Christ must have a united voice.

 

[rstegeman]

Those of us Latins who post statements concerning the lack of unity between the Eastern and Western faiths are not uneducated nor are we rude. We simply believe that Body of Christ must have a united voice.

I don’t think the OP was referring to all posters of the subject, but specifically to those who are rude.

 

[Margarite]

A Patriarch is not over a Bishop. No Bishop is over another.

Except the Pope, the bishop of Rome. He is over every other bishop.

LakaYaRabb:

Eastern Catholics are not Roman: not in Theology, Spirituality or Liturgy.

Roman or Eastern are more a form of mass, the theology and spirituality are the same. All Catholics MUST believe the same basic things or they are not Catholics.
=LakaYaRabb:

Writing posts that are extremely rude and uneducated about the Christian East will turn people off.

 

[East_and_West]

LakaYaRabb;3171613:

A Patriarch is not over a Bishop. No Bishop is over another.

Except the Pope, the bishop of Rome. He is over every other bishop.

LakaYaRabb:

Eastern Catholics are not Roman: not in Theology, Spirituality or Liturgy.

Roman or Eastern are more a form of mass, the theology and spirituality are the same. All Catholics MUST believe the same basic things or they are not Catholics.

LakaYaRabb:

Writing posts that are extremely rude and uneducated about the Christian East will turn people off.

Wow. Responses to this post are gonna be interesting.

 

[Woodstock]

LakaYaRabb;3171613:

Eastern Catholics are not Roman: not in Theology, Spirituality or Liturgy.

Roman or Eastern are more a form of mass, the theology and spirituality are the same. All Catholics MUST believe the same basic things or they are not Catholics.

You might want to acquaint yourself with the Church’s understanding.

“A rite is the liturgical, theological, spiritual and disciplinary patrimony, culture and circumstances of history of a distinct people, by which its own manner of living the faith is manifested in each Church sui iuris.” -Eastern Code of Canon Law, Canon 28

 

[The_Iambic_Pen]

Writing posts that are extremely rude and uneducated about the Christian East will turn people off.

Writing posts that are in favor of the Christian East seems to be a step on the road to posting elsewhere…

I do hope that Western Catholics, both here on this forum and elsewhere, can come to a greater understanding and appreciation of Eastern Catholics. If the Church is to be truly catholic, then East and West should be able to exist in harmony within the Church.

:byzsoc:

 

[jimmy]

LakaYaRabb;3171613:

Eastern Catholics are not Roman: not in Theology, Spirituality or Liturgy.

Roman or Eastern are more a form of mass, the theology and spirituality are the same. All Catholics MUST believe the same basic things or they are not Catholics.

Yes, all Catholics absolutely must profess a distinction between essence and energies. All Catholics must profess one nature in Christ. The point of spirituality is the pursuit of the divine energies. And all Catholics must profess that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father. All this because we must have the same spirituality and theology.

 

[HailMary]

There are several things bothering me here at CAF.

First, stop refeting to a Church as a Rite. There are six major rites of the Catholic Church.

There are over 20 Churches that use a particular rite.

A person does not belong to a rite, he belongs to a Church.

A Church uses a rite.

A Patriarch is not over a Bishop. No Bishop is over another.

Eastern Catholics are not Roman: not in Theology, Spirituality or Liturgy.

Writing posts that are extremely rude and uneducated about the Christian East will turn people off.

If I have offeneded anyone, this sinner asks forgiveness.

God grant you all many years.

and on that same note, there is not such thing as “Western Truth” and “Eastern Truth”, nor are there any “Eastern’s” or “Westerner’s” in Heaven: its one family, one truth.

 

[Amadeus]

There are several things bothering me here at CAF.

First, stop refeting to a Church as a Rite. There are six major rites of the Catholic Church.

There are over 20 Churches that use a particular rite.

A person does not belong to a rite, he belongs to a Church.

A Church uses a rite.

A Patriarch is not over a Bishop. No Bishop is over another.

Eastern Catholics are not Roman: not in Theology, Spirituality or Liturgy.

Writing posts that are extremely rude and uneducated about the Christian East will turn people off.

If I have offeneded anyone, this sinner asks forgiveness.

God grant you all many years.

If we talk about the “Major Rites” or the “family of liturgical rites” in the Catholic Church, I think there are only 5:

(1) Roman or Latin family of liturgical rites;
(2) Antiochian;
(3) Byzantine;
(4) Alexandrian; and
(5) Armenian (previously considered an older form of the Byzantine).

I don’t know under what context you are using the statement: “[t]here are over 20 Churches that use a particular rite,” clearly referring to the Byzantine Rite which the Melkite Church also uses. If one includes Orthodox Churches in the count, there could be; but there are only 14 Eastern Catholic Churches which use the Byzantine Rite.

The Catholic Church is hierarchical! And there are 2 senses “hierarchy” is understood: hierarchy of order and hierarchy of jurisdiction and within both understanding there is always gradation!

The hierarchy of order contains the episcopate, the presbyterate, and the deaconate (or diaconate).

In this sense, yes, a patriarch is not over a bishop as both belong to the episcopate. Going further up, a cardinal, nor even the Pope, is not over a bishop. They are all bishops, indeed, belonging to the episcopate order.

But under the hierarchy of jurisdiction, there is a specific gradation even within the same episcopate order. Thus, the Pope, as Bishop of Rome, has the supreme, immediate, and universal jurisdiction over the Catholic Church and over all bishops and
faithful.

Disciplinarily speaking, the Cardinals come next over the Patriarchs.

Then, come the Patriarchs who are over Major Archbishops, Metropolitans, Archbishops, Bishops, and down the line. Next, the Major Archbishops over the Metropolitan Archbishops (with suffragan bishops) and regular Archbishops, diocesan Bishops, auxiliary Bishops, and down the line.

Rudeness in any form should be avoided by us all!

 

[Diak]

Disciplinarily speaking, the Cardinals come next over the Patriarchs.

Absolutely not from the Eastern Catholic perspective. A Latin cardinal does not have any administrative authority over a Patriarchal church sui iuris or her Patriarch. It is rather the other way around. A Patriarch is generally offered the cardinalate as an honorific and he may (as did I believe Maximos IV and V) refuse it as well.

 

[Amadeus]

Absolutely not from the Eastern Catholic perspective. A Latin cardinal does not have any administrative authority over a Patriarchal church sui iuris or her Patriarch. It is rather the other way around. A Patriarch is generally offered the cardinalate as an honorific and he may (as did I believe Maximos IV and V) refuse it as well.

Dear Fr. Deacon Randy:

We agree to disagree!

Welcome aboard!

 

[ronyodish]

If we talk about the “Major Rites” or the “family of liturgical rites” in the Catholic Church, I think there are only 5:

(1) Roman or Latin family of liturgical rites;
(2) Antiochian;
(3) Byzantine;
(4) Alexandrian; and
(5) Armenian (previously considered an older form of the Byzantine).

Amadeus,

You forgot us Chaldeans

God bless,

Rony

 

[Amadeus]

Amadeus,

You forgot us Chaldeans

God bless,

Rony

No, I did not forget nor omit you, the Chaldeans.

The OP referred to the “Major Rites” or to the “family of liturgical rites” in the Catholic Church. There were originally 3: Roman, Antiochian, and Alexandrian. The 4th “Major Rite,” the Byzantine Rite, was itself later derived from the Antiochian Rite. The 5th “Major Rite,” the Armenian Rite, was thought earlier to be an older form of the Byzantine Rite but it is now by itself considered a distinct Rite.

Both the Chaldeans and the Syro-Malabars belong to the Antiochian Rite, East Syriac Tradition; while the Maronites, the Syriacs, and the Syro-Malankars belong to the Western Tradition of the Antiochian Rite.

Although, admittedly, you Chaldeans and the Maronites sometimes consider yourselves of distinct “rites!” Properly speaking, however, both particular Churches use the old and venerable Antiochian Rite!

May God bless you as well!

 

[ronyodish]

Amadeus,

Just so you know, not all Chaldeans will agree that us and the Antiochenes are of one Rite, differentiated as East/West. My bishop Mar Sarhad, for example, does not like “East Syriac” as a description of us.

We were in full communion, but distinct from the Churches in the Roman empire, including the Church of Antioch. We were part of the Persian empire. Our liturgy was principally that of Sts. Addai and Mari, and our apostolic succession is from St. Thomas the Apostle.

Antiochenes, I believe, use principally the liturgy of St. James, and their apostolic succession is from St. Peter the Apostle.

God bless,

Rony

 

[Catherine_Grant]

Writing posts that are in favor of the Christian East seems to be a step on the road to posting elsewhere…

The Catholic Answers Forums exists to provide a community for Catholics and non-Catholics of all levels of interest in and/or commitment to the Catholic Church to gather on the Internet for discussion in a safe and charitable environment.

We understand that there is a wide diversity of expression of theology, spirituality, and discipline between and within the Eastern, Oriental, and Western rites and Churches. These topics may legitimately be discussed in their appropriate forums.

We do not require that members agree with the Catholic Church in order to participate; only that they remain charitable in their postings. Users who persistently violate the forum rules will be counseled, suspended, and/or banned. The reasons behind a suspension or other disciplinary action are rarely obvious to forum members. Public speculation as to the reasons behind a suspension or ban are therefore fruitless (and a primary reason why it is a banned topic.)

The focus of the Eastern Catholicism forum is to provide a community for Eastern Catholics and to help Latin Catholics better appreciate the Church’s Eastern heritage. Members are free to discuss, dialogue, question, disagree with, and debate the liturgy, theology, spirituality, discipline, culture, and history of Eastern, Oriental, and Western Catholicism. Non-Catholics are welcome to participate in compliance with the stated purpose of the forum.

It should also be noted that Catholics are NOT given preference because of their religious affiliation. In fact, Catholics are often held to a higher standard. As our Lord cautioned, “To whom much is given, of him will much be required” (Luke 12:48).

Problems with inappropriate content should be reported via the http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cak/report.gif “Report Post” feature. Members are also welcomed and encouraged to private message me with questions, suggestions, or concerns. Moderator decisions may be appealed to the forum administrator. Here at CAF, we believe that the truth will take care of itself. Our job is to reveal it as charitably as we can.

May God Bless You Abundantly,
Catherine

 

[Aramis]

LakaYaRabb;3171613:

**A Patriarch is not over a Bishop. No Bishop is over another. **

Except the Pope, the bishop of Rome. He is over every other bishop.

LakaYaRabb:

Eastern Catholics are not Roman: not in Theology, Spirituality or Liturgy.

Roman or Eastern are more a form of mass, the theology and spirituality are the same. All Catholics MUST believe the same basic things or they are not Catholics.

LakayaRabb:

Writing posts that are extremely rude and uneducated about the Christian East will turn people off.

Bolding mine.

I strongly suggest you read the CCEO and the CIC before posting errors like the bolded.

An Archbishop-metropolitan in ANY catholic church has authority over those bishops-suffragan in his province. Limited but real.

A Patriarch has the same authority over all bishops in his synod. in the Latin Church, all Patriarchal churches are provinces, but one has no suffragan bishops; the others have only suffragan bishops, not archbishops-suffragan.

A Primatial bishop (Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Governing Metropolitan) has authority over his synodal bishops.

Any enthroned bishop has authority over his Auxiliary Bishops and Chorbishops.

 

[jimmy]

Bolding mine.

I strongly suggest you read the CCEO and the CIC before posting errors like the bolded.

An Archbishop-metropolitan in ANY catholic church has authority over those bishops-suffragan in his province. Limited but real.

A Patriarch has the same authority over all bishops in his synod. in the Latin Church, all Patriarchal churches are provinces, but one has no suffragan bishops; the others have only suffragan bishops, not archbishops-suffragan.

A Primatial bishop (Patriarch, Major Archbishop, or Governing Metropolitan) has authority over his synodal bishops.

Any enthroned bishop has authority over his Auxiliary Bishops and Chorbishops.

And the Melkites and the other byzantines would disagree with you on this.