My observations and suggestions

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And the Melkites and the other byzantines would disagree with you on this.
Actually the Melkite Patriarch said that within the Eastern Churches the Patriarchal role is equal to that of the Pope. :confused:

A Patriarch has very real prerogatives and authority, unique to his position, and this is strongly (even adamantly) affirmed by the Melkite Patriarch. It may not be to the extreme that is currently exercised in the Latin Church, but it’s definitely a real authority and special place that goes beyond the authority of another Bishop.

A Melkite article on this matter, at least as it relates to the current situation the Church finds itself in with regards to Patriarchal Territory, can be found on the Melkite website:

melkite.org/sa34.htm

Peace and God bless!
 
off subject:

I’m not sure this website is very orthodox or even valid:

melkite.org/Challenge2005B.htm#GRADES%207-12 8 How many Ecumenical Councils were held?
a. Seven Ecumenical Councils

9 Was the Vatican council an ecumenical council? Why?, why not?
a. The Vatican council was not an ecumenical council – no participation from the Orthodox

According to this website, it would suggest to the reader that the other Ecumenical Councils ( 15 after the seventh) are not valid. Uhh, yeah. That does not sound very Catholic to me.
 
I’m not sure this website is very orthodox or even valid:
It is the official website of the Melkite Greek Catholic Eparchy of Newton, which encompasses all Melkite Greek Catholic churches in the USA. 🙂

This page explains the Melkite Church’s role and position in the Catholic Church:
melkite.org/role.htm
 
It is the official website of the Melkite Greek Catholic Eparchy of Newton, which encompasses all Melkite Greek Catholic churches in the USA. 🙂

This page explains the Melkite Church’s role and position in the Catholic Church:
melkite.org/role.htm
So would you say that portion I quoted is the actual Melkite position on the validality of the Ecumenical councils?
 
So would you say that portion I quoted is the actual Melkite position on the validality of the Ecumenical councils?
That is my understanding. I would suggest you write or call them to verify.
 
That is my understanding. I would suggest you write or call them to verify.
Maybe I am confused.

Does this website represent a church in union with the rest of the Catholic Church headed by her Bishops under the High Pontiff, Pope Benedict XVI?
 
Maybe I am confused.

Does this website represent a church in union with the rest of the Catholic Church headed by her Bishops under the High Pontiff, Pope Benedict XVI?
Yes. It is an Eastern Catholic Church in full communion with Rome, headed by Patriarch GREGORY III of Antioch, Alexandria, and Jerusalem.

melkite.org/patriarch.html
 
In this world there are Catholics and then there are Anti-Catholics. Right now, there are a lot of Latin Rite Catholics that are becoming so liberal and defective that they are changing into Anti-Catholic. We have a lot to learn from our Eastern brothers. We must hold firm together and encourage each other. We must talk about theology, because our theology is the same. If I meet a Latin Catholic and find that they do not believe what a Catholic must believe in order to remain Catholic then I will tell them so. I meet one Latin Catholic that insist that Mary is the Co-Redemptor and the Daughter of God in the same way that Jesus is the Son of God. I didn’t need to get into an arguement with him or find out if he was speaking figuratively, he was just wrong and not believing what a Catholic must anymore. He then was no longer Catholic so I had to correct him. I do not know if he turned from his heresy but we must correct each other when we go the wrong way.

Catholics are Catholics becaue they hold the Catholic faith. We express this faith in different ways that makes it difficult to understand each other sometime but trust me, the Pope and the Patriarchs of the True Eastern Churches would not be in communion with each other if they did not sit down, hammer out the fact that they did hold the same faith and finally both understand that they do hold the same faith.

All peace to all Catholics in the world, in every local Church and using every rite. I suggest that, if possible, every Latin Catholic should go to Mass in an Eastern Catholic Church at least once a year. I also give an invitation to my Eastern Catholic brothers to come to the Latin Church at least once a year. You may find the Triditine Mass more familiar and comfortable but the Novus Ordo is valid and can be a learning experiance in the least.
 
So would you say that portion I quoted is the actual Melkite position on the validality of the Ecumenical councils?
I suggest you take a look at Bishop Elya’s Q&A: melkite.org/bishopQA.htm

Question T-2 and T-3.

The Melkite Church has taken a lead role in working toward the rapprochement between the Orthodox and Catholic Church - which is a good and, IMHO, holy (albeit difficult) thing to do. One of the great difficulties to be addressed is what to do about the post-schism councils. All Catholics (and the Orthodox) deeply involved in this endeavor recognize the knotty problem of the councils. Bishop Elya is very careful in the way he both strongly supports the post-schism councils and papal pronouncements while acknowledging - like Cardinal Kasper - the special place for the first 7 Councils. Nothing of dogma is denied - indeed the opposite takes place: Bishop Elya, and the Melkite Church, strongly Catholic support dogma. There is a recognition that some matters deal only with the Latin Church and are not dogma.

That a children’s primer does not address the nuances of this complex issue - tied to reunification - is neither a surprise nor very troubling to me. Perhaps the wording could be better? The fact remains that the Melkite Church is fully Catholic accepting all Catholic dogma including the role of the Pope. What’s troubling is that too many Catholics, East and West, fail to see the complexity of both reunification and the areas where certain dogmas really don’t go so as to leave open legitimate areas for theological exploration from both an Eastern and Western mindset, history, philosophy and languages. In no way do I believe anyone - certainly not the Melkite Church - is looking to deny any dogma. What I see going on is a reexamination by the Catholic and Orthodox Church of what really separates them to see if there really is a denial of dogma or merely different understanding of non-dogmatical matters, or even different expressions of the same dogma which are not contradictory but are complementary or supplementary. Indeed, in this arena in many cases one has to consider the political situation, lack of contacts, civil rivalries and personal peccadilloes of the churchmen involved to understand what took place and what was really said.

I say thank God for the Melkite Church and its Bishops as they work on this issue. They are working with Rome - not against her.

Perhaps Bishop Zoghby got a little out on a limb, but even then Rome has worked that through, too. No one, Orthodox or Catholic can, will or should deny dogma - but where we can reconcile our understanding of TRUTH in this world of different languages, philosophies, theologies and expressions of TRUTH in light of our history - then we need to do so in hopeful and loving faith in the guidance of the Holy Spirit so as to move toward reunification.
 
And the Melkites and the other byzantines would disagree with you on this.
But their bishops don’t seem to…

It’s very evident in both the CCEO (Code of Canon law for the Eastern Churches) and the CIC (Code of Canon Law for the Roman Church) that Archbishops-Metropolitan (those assigned to oversee a province as well as their diocese/eparchy) have real authority in all churches in union.

The synods and primatial bishops which object to this simply don’t assign/request provinces!

Patriarchs and other Primatial Bishops, even in the Orthodox world, have some authority. In many of the Orthodox churches, they can (at the least) convene the synod and break ties. Some can act in the name of their synod, suspending or intervening in a temporary fashion until the synod can rule on the matter.

In the CCEO, Patriarchs can, as the Pope can, intervene in any of their subordinate bishops’ sees if needed, and can enthrone and depose their subordinates for cause.

This fundamental difference in ecclesiology is important… and all to often overlooked.
CCEO:
Canon 56
A patriarch is a bishop who enjoys power over all bishops including metropolitans and other Christian faithful of the Church over which he presides according to the norm of law approved by the supreme authority of the Church.

Canon 78
  1. The power which, according to the norm of the canons and legitimate customs, the patriarch has over bishops and other Christian faithful of the Church over which he presides is ordinary and proper, but personal. Thus, the patriarch cannot constitute a vicar for the entire patriarchal Church nor can he delegate his power to someone for all cases.
  2. The power of the patriarch is exercised validly only inside the territorial boundaries of the patriarchal Church unless the nature of the matter or the common or particular law approved by the Roman Pontiff establishes otherwise.
Canon 82
  1. By his own right the patriarch can: (1) within the scope of his competence, issue decrees which determine more precisely the methods to be observed in applying the law or urge the observance of a law; (2) direct instructions to the Christian faithful of the entire Church over which he presides for the purpose of explaining sound doctrine, fostering piety, correcting abuses, and approving and recommending practices which foster the spiritual welfare of the Christian faithful; (3) issue encyclical letters to the entire Church over which he presides concerning questions with respect to his own Church and rite.
  2. The patriarch can order bishops and other clerics as well as members of institutes of consecrated life of the entire Church over which he presides to read and to explain publicly in their churches or houses his decrees, instructions, and encyclical letters.
  3. In all matters which concern the entire Church over which he presides or more serious affairs, the patriarch will not fail to hear the permanent synod, the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church, or even the patriarchal assembly
continues…
 
…continued
CCEO:
Canon 85
  1. For a serious reason, with the consent of the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church and having consulted the Apostolic See, the patriarch can establish provinces and eparchies, modify their boundaries, unite, divide, suppress, and modify their hierarchical status and transfer the eparchial see.
  2. With the consent of the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church, the patriarch is competent: (1) to give to an eparchial bishop a coadjutor bishop or auxiliary bishop, observing cann. 181, 1 and 182-187 and 212; (2) for a grave reason, to transfer a metropolitan, eparchial bishop or titular bishop to another metropolitan, eparchial or titular see; if the bishop refuses, the synod of bishops of the patriarchal Church is to resolve the matter or defer it to the Roman Pontiff. 3. With the consent of the permanent synod, the patriarch can erect, modify and suppress exarchies.
  3. The patriarch is to notify the Apostolic See of these decisions as soon as possible.
Canon 86
  1. The patriarch is competent: (1) to give a patriarchal letter of canonical provision to a metropolitan or a bishop; (2) to ordain metropolitans either personally or, if impeded, through other bishops, and, if particular law thus stipulates, also to ordain all bishops; (3) to enthrone the metropolitan after episcopal ordination.
  2. By virtue of the law itself the faculty is given to the patriarch to ordain and enthrone a metropolitan and other bishops of the Church over which he presides who are appointed by the Roman Pontiff outside the territorial boundaries of the same Church unless in a special case it is expressly stipulated otherwise.
  3. Episcopal ordination and enthronement must take place within the term stipulated by law; the patriarchal letter of canonical provision is to be given within ten days of the proclamation of the election. The Apostolic See is to be notified as soon as possible of the episcopal ordination and enthronement.
Patriarchs and primatial bishops (Maj.ABp’s and Governing Metropolitans) have considerable authority, authority that, otherwise, is reserved to the pope. The ability to suspend and remove clerics in other’s eparchies is quite an authority.
 
Fr. Deacon Randy is correct on this one, there is NO WAY that Cardinals out rank Patriarchs of particular churches.
Heck, all we have to do is ask WHERE in the CCEO does it say that the Patriarch’s authority doesn’t extend over Cardinals in his Church? 😉

Peace and God bless!
 
Heck, all we have to do is ask WHERE in the CCEO does it say that the Patriarch’s authority doesn’t extend over Cardinals in his Church? 😉

Peace and God bless!
It’s whole bit on the matter is simple: Patriarchs have priority on being elevated to Cardinal: as soon as there is an opening of a Cardinal-Bishop titular see, any non-cardinal patriarch gets it.
 
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