My Officemate...

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psychologist101

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well, the officemate i told you all about went and had his vasectomy today, despite me emailing him tons of links why he shouldnt. i asked about his upbringing, and his wife and he were raised Catholic, but dont practice. i asked about the pictures of his wedding, and why they were in a Catholic church, and he said it was really because her parents paid for the wedding, and it HAD to be in a CC. her mom thought that if at least they had a catholic wedding, they might return to their faiths.

i even told him that the church doesnt recognize a marriage not open to children as sacramental. he said he really “doenst care what a bunch of guys 4000 miles away who arent allowed to marry” says about marriage. he was nice about it, not mean to me, but he just doesnt care at all about the religious aspect of marriage.

he came in today around 4pm, and alot of the guys came around asking him about it, some even giving him “high fives” for having the “courage” to have it done. those were the ones who want to have one too. to me, it was disgusting and just immoral.

why, why is it that it seems so many people in higher education dont want children? people “applauded” him for “recognizing that he didnt want children, and to have the sense not to bring them into a home where they werent wanted”.

isnt my officemate’s marriage now invalid? isnt he living in sin with his wife and basically committing fornication, because his marriage is basically null?

so what do i do now? it kind of creeps me out that i share an office with a person so selfish that they would damage their body, when there are so many couples who are dying to have kids, but cant.

he even made a joke to 2 other grad students “i should be on that Geico commercial, i just saved a bunch of money by…”.

i know its not my job to judge him, but is there resources for guys whove had vasectomies? ones that maybe start the healing process or help them realize what theyve done is so wrong?

im a little disheartened that some of the educated minds of tommorrow have attitudes toward having children like that.
 
I really don’t understand why any man would want something sharp near that area of the body.
 
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psychologist101:
isnt my officemate’s marriage now invalid?
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No, that’s not the case. If he were dead set against having children at the time of the wedding, then his marriage could be invalid, but not wanting children after the wedding doesn’t make it invalid.
so what do i do now?
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MYOB.
 
I know that watching someone disregard his faith so blatantly is really hard to watch. You’ve done everything that you can do. It’s really up to God now to move him back towards his faith.

I deal with this a lot with many of my Catholic friends who are so far away from the faith, they’ve literally surrounded themselves with things that our society puts a lot of importance into that goes against what God teaches. Think of yourself as a lighthouse in a raging storm. You may be standing alone in this, but the light of your faith in God still shines for anyone who wants to follow it. Just continue to be a good witness of Christ, and you don’t need to use words to do so. Who knows? Maybe you’ve planted a seed in him…it might grow someday.

God Bless You. 👍
 
so what do i do now?
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Pray for him. I suggest the Chaplet of Divine Mercy:
ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm

Conversion is work of the Holy Spirit. You have made your objections known so don’t continue to bring it up. Continually bringing up the topic may actually drive him away from the truth rather than toward it. Make your objections known if someone else brings up the subject and then let it go. Continue to pray for him and trust in God to help him see the truth. By making your objections known previouslly he will have someone to come to if/when he realizes the sinfullness of what he did.

Maybe Luke 9: 52-56 will help:
drbo.org/chapter/49009.htm
 
So? Just because he has decided not to have children doesn’t change anything about him. Many people have vasectomies after they have children anyway. I can’t see anything wrong with him having this done. And he is brave for having it done, I’ve seen first-hand what a horribly painful experience it is.
 
I can’t see anything wrong with him having this done.
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From the Catechism:
2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159
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scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm

Recommended reading:
pureloveclub.com/chastity/index.php?id=7&entryid=90
theologyofthebody.com/article4.asp
 
So the Church says it’s forbidden and we are all going to lower the standards of morality by doing it. So? That’s the Church’s opinion, not mine, and it doesn’t do much in persuading me.
 
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TheBlackGhost:
So the Church says it’s forbidden and we are all going to lower the standards of morality by doing it. So? That’s the Church’s opinion, not mine, and it doesn’t do much in persuading me.
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BlackGhost, the CC is right, self-mutilation to prevent God’s creation is wrong. I suspect a piece of you knows this. Hence why you are here.

God Bless
 
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TheBlackGhost:
So the Church says it’s forbidden and we are all going to lower the standards of morality by doing it. So? That’s the Church’s opinion, not mine, and it doesn’t do much in persuading me.
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I sorry guys, but I’m going to have to agree with TheBlackGhost here. You all should be ashamed. After all, think about it. If Jesus were here right now, he would be right there in that office, slapping that guy some skin. If such a surgery had been around 2,000 years ago, his sermon on the mount would have included the line, “Blessed are those who limit how many children they have because they want to save a bunch of money.” Jesus would have said, “Even though I designed the body to function in a way that allows you to please me, please, by all means, rearrange the plumbing however you would like.” And TheBlackGhost is correct, there is no link between contraceptive mentality and, say, abortion, which would “lower the standards of mortality”. After all, people only have abortions when they don’t want kids or when they think more children would be a burden or too expensive. And there is no link between contraceptive mentality and infidelity except that infidelity … well, it might increase once the consequences are lessened, but that’s it. And there is absolutely no link between contraceptive mentality and, say pornography and sexual addiction because those things only happen when someone abandons self-control by getting it when he wants without restraint.
And, as TheBlackGhost said, who cares what the church says. Who cares that, if the church was not granted the guidance of the Holy Spirit in determining truth, it might not have correctly compiled Scripture or taught the truth about Christ. Who cares that this means that we would no longer have any assurance that a place called “Heaven” actually exists. After all, just as TheBlackGhost, Adam, and Eve clearly discovered, it shouldn’t be the “Church’s opinion”, but “mine” that ultimately decides right and wrong. So go ahead, cross 1 Tim. 3:15 - it is not the church that is the pillar and foundation of the truth, but my own conscience.
 
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TheBlackGhost:
So the Church says it’s forbidden and we are all going to lower the standards of morality by doing it. So? That’s the Church’s opinion, not mine, and it doesn’t do much in persuading me.
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It is also sinfully prideful to give more weight to one’s personal feelings or opinions over that of the Magisterium, to which Christ entrusted matters of faith and morals.

While some say that people like myself should “use the brain” God gave to me in making my choices (in following or disobeying church teaching), they do not realize that to follow obediently, to the point of deep sacrifice, is an act of freedom. One cannot exercise obedience if they do something forced upon them. Only the free can choose and it is what we do with this free-will. It is this kind of thing upon which final judgment will be based.

God help those who “know” and choose, pridefully, to do their will over that of the Lord. It is not unlike the dark angels who rebelled against God. They too had a choice - to do good over evil and they chose to follow their own pride over humble service to the Lord.

How sad that God comes second, not first. Putting God first is to follow the path of His Son in a life that involves humility, not pride, and sacrifice, not convenience and comfort.

It is also sad that nothing I say will change those obstinate in following their own wills over that of the Lord. Therefore, all that is left is prayer for conversion.
 
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awfulthings9:
I sorry guys, but I’m going to have to agree with TheBlackGhost here. You all should be ashamed. After all, think about it. If Jesus were here right now, he would be right there in that office, slapping that guy some skin. If such a surgery had been around 2,000 years ago, his sermon on the mount would have included the line, “Blessed are those who limit how many children they have because they want to save a bunch of money.” Jesus would have said, “Even though I designed the body to function in a way that allows you to please me, please, by all means, rearrange the plumbing however you would like.” And TheBlackGhost is correct, there is no link between contraceptive mentality and, say, abortion, which would “lower the standards of mortality”. After all, people only have abortions when they don’t want kids or when they think more children would be a burden or too expensive. And there is no link between contraceptive mentality and infidelity except that infidelity … well, it might increase once the consequences are lessened, but that’s it. And there is absolutely no link between contraceptive mentality and, say pornography and sexual addiction because those things only happen when someone abandons self-control by getting it when he wants without restraint.
And, as TheBlackGhost said, who cares what the church says. Who cares that, if the church was not granted the guidance of the Holy Spirit in determining truth, it might not have correctly compiled Scripture or taught the truth about Christ. Who cares that this means that we would no longer have any assurance that a place called “Heaven” actually exists. After all, just as TheBlackGhost, Adam, and Eve clearly discovered, it shouldn’t be the “Church’s opinion”, but “mine” that ultimately decides right and wrong. So go ahead, cross 1 Tim. 3:15 - it is not the church that is the pillar and foundation of the truth, but my own conscience.
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#1: God instructed His creation to be fruitful and multiple. Scripture also tells us that God does not change from generation to generation. So what God said eons ago, is the same thing that he would say today. So your assumption of what Jesus would say today is WRONG.

#2: If God does not want people to have children, then HE (not we) will make one partner sterile and/or unable to conceive.

#3: Since the pillar of truth is your own conscious, your are obviously neither a Catholic (a TRUE Catholic would accept the teachings of his church on this matter) or a Christian (a true Christian would not disagree with even one verse of the bible) and we therefore, do not have enough common ground to continue this disagreement.
 
Sir Knight said:
#1: God instructed His creation to be fruitful and multiple. Scripture also tells us that God does not change from generation to generation. So what God said eons ago, is the same thing that he would say today. So your assumption of what Jesus would say today is WRONG.

#2: If God does not want people to have children, then HE (not we) will make one partner sterile and/or unable to conceive.

#3: Since the pillar of truth is your own conscious, your are obviously neither a Catholic (a TRUE Catholic would accept the teachings of his church on this matter) or a Christian (a true Christian would not disagree with even one verse of the bible) and we therefore, do not have enough common ground to continue this disagreement.
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I’m fairly certain awfulthings was being completely, totally, utterly, amusingly sarcastic. His facetious answer is just as absurd as Black Ghost’s original assertion, hence the humorous effect. Perhaps not entirely appropriate since obviously not everyone can tell it is a joke, but amusing nonetheless. I thought it was pretty witty myself.
 
Then a smilie or something should have been used to indicate that. :rolleyes:
 
Sir Knight said:
#1: God instructed His creation to be fruitful and multiple. Scripture also tells us that God does not change from generation to generation. So what God said eons ago, is the same thing that he would say today. So your assumption of what Jesus would say today is WRONG.

#2: If God does not want people to have children, then HE (not we) will make one partner sterile and/or unable to conceive.

#3: Since the pillar of truth is your own conscious, your are obviously neither a Catholic (a TRUE Catholic would accept the teachings of his church on this matter) or a Christian (a true Christian would not disagree with even one verse of the bible) and we therefore, do not have enough common ground to continue this disagreement.
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Yes, I was being sarcastic. I thought the idea of Jesus slapping skin and encouraging financial gain over parenthood would have made that somewhat obvious. Sorry, SirKnight. I was trying to point out absurdity through absurdity.
 
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awfulthings9:
Yes, I was being sarcastic. I thought the idea of Jesus slapping skin and encouraging financial gain over parenthood would have made that somewhat obvious. Sorry, SirKnight. I was trying to point out absurdity through absurdity.
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“No, you were being serious, …don’t you now try changing your tune to appease those who gave you a hard time for stating your mind what you know is true …opinion rules! … dude, where is your moral backbone? …at least Jesus had one to go up against the religious establishment of his day, …man, I’m losing respect for you cow tow Catholics!” …echoes of the voice of TheBlackGhost * 😉 *
 
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psychologist101:
he came in today around 4pm, and alot of the guys came around asking him about it, some even giving him “high fives” for having the “courage” to have it done. those were the ones who want to have one too. to me, it was disgusting and just immoral.
.
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I’m sure at first the bull in the pasture is envious of the steers on the truck too. But the farmer knows better. And so will the bull and the steers come next week.
 
Psychologist- I hope that when you get your graduate degree, you will have the wherewithall to advertise yourself as a Catholic or Christian counselor. As a social worker, I cannot tell you how hard it has been to know who to recommend to clients that are seeking individual therapy, since so much of what is taught in graduate schools is utterly secular, if not downright hostile to religion. Remember this man always, and how many unsuspecting people will hear his foolish advice and be accepting it as truth. Keep in mind that good always trumps evil, and you must join the few professionals out here that wish to wisely dispense Wisdom…to heal and not harm…🙂
 
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