My Opinion: No Piercing At Jesus' Side

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Ben_Masada said:
I am all for analysing anything according to the context as long as the whole thing is Jewish. You cannot give me Jesus being born of a woman withoug the participation of a human father because this is not Jewish. Can you see what I mean?
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Well, since it happened only once in the history of humanity (including Greek history!), it IS something odd according to all peoples under the sun, not just according to the Hebrews (and then the Jews)!!! To classify it as un-Jewish seems to me to be kind of too early…
 
And have no miracles happened to convince the sons of Israel that it really was God Himself who was leading them out of Egypt to the Promised Land, some maybe quite ordinary, but others extraordinary?
 
Ben_Masada said:
Do not humble yourself that far. I have held face-to-face debates with two priests. Once with a Sallesian priest and another time with a Capucin monk from the Order of the Franciscans. They were short-lived debates, which only served to cause disappointments on me for their lack of Scriptural knowledge and poor handling of the art of apologetics. Catholics here in this forum are more of a challenge to me.
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Well, I guess you never dealt with Fr. Mitch Pacwa, a Jesuit priest, or with Fr. Benedict J. Groeschel, of the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in the Bronx, New York City! You can watch both on EWTN, if you could receive it onyour cable TV…
Thank you for the compliment, though, even though there ARE bishops and priests far more learned on such topics than we are.
 
Ben_Masada said:
**The God of Judaism and the God of Israel is one and the same. So, I lack actual knowledge of what Christianity is! Maybe. And what are you doing to help me with that lack of knowledge? Practically nothing. You can’t even answer my questions withouth contradicting yourself. **
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I think I said, “you seem to know Judaism more than the God of Israel” I can say it another way: “You seem to know Judaism much better than you know the God of Judaism”…
 
Ben_Masada said:
** And what are you doing to help me with that lack of knowledge? Practically nothing. You can’t even answer my questions without contradicting yourself. **
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O.K., bring me an example of an answer I gave you and contradicted myself.
 
Ben_Masada said:
To believe that John the Apostle wrote the fourth gospel is to dig contradictions in the NT. No Jew would come up with those ideas if he first did not apostate from Judaism, as Paul did. Then, opinions of men with Christian preconceived notions mean nothing to me.
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There’s at least one other possibility: That maybe the Apostle John met the risen Christ, and his thinking changed…😉

On a slightly more serious note, your argument is circular. Reduced to its essentials, it is merely that Judaism, as you understand it is the only way. Anything that doesn’t conform with it is a fraud. The Gospel of John doesn’t conform with your understanding, and is therefore a fraud. Why don’t you present evidence that my argument is wrong? I presented a series of facts to establish the authorship of the the Gospel of John. Find contradictory evidence and present it. That way, we are most likely to discover the truth.
Regards,
SteveLohr
 
SteveLohr said:
There’s at least one other possibility: That maybe the Apostle John met the risen Christ, and his thinking changed…😉

On a slightly more serious note, your argument is circular. Reduced to its essentials, it is merely that Judaism, as you understand it is the only way. Anything that doesn’t conform with it is a fraud. The Gospel of John doesn’t conform with your understanding, and is therefore a fraud. Why don’t you present evidence that my argument is wrong? I presented a series of facts to establish the authorship of the the Gospel of John. Find contradictory evidence and present it. That way, we are most likely to discover the truth.
Regards,
SteveLohr
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It certainly looks like it, Ben, whether you and we like it or not…
 
Lapell said:
If it means nothing to you, why then take the pain to come on this forum to discuss our Gospel and the NT matters, hmm? 😉
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**YOUR opinion means something to me. I was referring to third opinions. When I am studying with someone, the only thing important to me is that someone and the Scriptures which we have between us. **
 
Lapell said:
The way I see it, it’s rather like: we learned it and we believed it, while you also learned it but didn’t!
You keep bringing the Greek mythology in… I suppose you read it in some commentaries by rabbis pointing out (in passing, of course!) how Christianity in their opinion views this and that, right?
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Gee! Thanks for suggesting that I don’t have a mind of my own.
 
Lapell said:
Well, since it happened only once in the history of humanity (including Greek history!), it IS something odd according to all peoples under the sun, not just according to the Hebrews (and then the Jews)!!! To classify it as un-Jewish seems to me to be kind of too early…
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You are exhibiting a tremendous lack of knowledge of Jewish culture and of what it is to be Jewish.
 
Lapell said:
And have no miracles happened to convince the sons of Israel that it really was God Himself who was leading them out of Egypt to the Promised Land, some maybe quite ordinary, but others extraordinary?
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**We don’t need miracles to be convinced that it was God Himself through Moses who led us out of Egypt to the Promised Land. Keep this in mind:
Men are the tools in the “hands” of God to deal with men. **
 
Lapell said:
Well, I guess you never dealt with Fr. Mitch Pacwa, a Jesuit priest, or with Fr. Benedict J. Groeschel, of the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal in the Bronx, New York City! You can watch both on EWTN, if you could receive it onyour cable TV…
Thank you for the compliment, though, even though there ARE bishops and priests far more learned on such topics than we are.
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**I wish I could get on line one of those paragons you mention above. You would be surprised to see how they can easily paint themselves into a corner. **
 
Lapell said:
I think I said, “you seem to know Judaism more than the God of Israel” I can say it another way: “You seem to know Judaism much better than you know the God of Judaism”…
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You can say that again! To know the God of Israel, I am still at the phase of only scratching the surfice.
 
SteveLohr said:
There’s at least one other possibility: That maybe the Apostle John met the risen Christ, and his thinking changed…😉

On a slightly more serious note, your argument is circular. Reduced to its essentials, it is merely that Judaism, as you understand it is the only way. Anything that doesn’t conform with it is a fraud. The Gospel of John doesn’t conform with your understanding, and is therefore a fraud. Why don’t you present evidence that my argument is wrong? I presented a series of facts to establish the authorship of the the Gospel of John. Find contradictory evidence and present it. That way, we are most likely to discover the truth.
Regards,
SteveLohr
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**Wow! I would stay the whole night jotting down the evidences that the fourth gospel does not conform with Judaism. This gospel is too Hellenistic and full of Greek Mythology from the very first chapter and all the way through the end of it. I could find less the 20 percent of truth in it. **
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLohr

On a slightly more serious note, your argument is circular. Reduced to its essentials, it is merely that Judaism, as you understand it is the only way. Anything that doesn’t conform with it is a fraud. The Gospel of John doesn’t conform with your understanding, and is therefore a fraud. Why don’t you present evidence that my argument is wrong? I presented a series of facts to establish the authorship of the the Gospel of John. Find contradictory evidence and present it. That way, we are most likely to discover the truth.
Regards,
SteveLohr
Ben_Masada said:
**Wow! I would stay the whole night jotting down the evidences that the fourth gospel does not conform with Judaism. This gospel is too Hellenistic and full of Greek Mythology from the very first chapter and all the way through the end of it. I could find less the 20 percent of truth in it. **
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Ben-You just proved my point.

Regards,
SteveLohr
 
Ben_Masada said:
We have been too long into this before. God is absolutely One and Incorporeal at that.
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And most of all, God is the one who is God and who knows better than any one of us how to be, and act like, God! I will keep stressing this as many times as needed. For a number of you Jews (and also of Christians, even Catholics, Muslims and others) are rather good at suggesting to God how He should and must act as God!
 
Ben_Masada said:
**Wow! I would stay the whole night jotting down the evidences that the fourth gospel does not conform with Judaism. This gospel is too Hellenistic and full of Greek Mythology from the very first chapter and all the way through the end of it. I could find less the 20 percent of truth in it. **
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Just the 4th Gospel, Ben? How about the 3 others?
 
Ben_Masada said:
You can say that again! To know the God of Israel, I am still at the phase of only scratching the surfice.
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Frankly, it’s not quite the way you sound on your threads. Certain things you affirm implies that you’d know the God of Judaism much more than you really do… Really!
 
I remember somebody who witnessed that “he didn’t know… or rather, he thought he did (know), which is much graver…”
 
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