My parish celebrated the Feast Day of Bl. JPII instead of the 29th Sunday of Ordinary Time...?

[FrDavid96]

So I guess no logic really could explain this. I’m not terribly worried at all. I don’t really care enough to call the bishop or his vicar. It was all just quite weird, the semi-JPII, semi-29th-Sunday, yet-still-called-Feast-Day-of-JPII-by-bishop mass, celebrated by every priest celebrating mass today in the entire diocese, as ordered by the bishop.

One interesting note was that all this information, as per what father said, was conveyed not by the bishop himself to the parishes, but by the diocese’s “liturgical director,” a monsignor, on the bishop’s order. Something perhaps could have gotten lost in translation. I think somebody made a big mistake somewhere. Nothing MAJORLY serious, but I still think it was kind of… disconcerting, if not wrong.

Maybe Bishop Guglielmone just… messed up, and no canon lawyer caught it. Bishops, after all, are people.

I don’t see how anybody made a mistake. I’ve read through the thread here, and I don’t see anything that happened which should not have happened.

Whether it is called a Mass of Thanksgiving for the Beatification, or it’s called the Feast Day Mass, the text would still be the same. The worst thing I can see here is nothing more significant than a typo in the bulletin. “Cross out ‘feast day’ and replace it with ‘Mass of Thanksgiving’”

HH Benedict gave permission (by way of an unusual exception given JP II’s ministry) for this Mass to be celebrated (outside of Rome and Poland where the exception is not needed) until May 2012. So we’re still within the permitted time frame.

See the GIRM posted by Anna Claire
58. For the pastoral advantage of the people, it is permissible to observe on the Sundays in Ordinary Time those celebrations that fall during the week and have special appeal to the devotion of the faithful, provided the celebrations take precedence over these Sundays in the Table of Liturgical Days. The Mass for such celebrations may be used at all the Masses at which a congregation is present.

It’s perfectly acceptable for the pastor to observe on a Sunday (in Ordinal Time) a feast that falls during the week. That’s what happened.

The readings on such a day can be either those of the feast OR of the Sunday. Your priest chose the Sunday readings. That’s fine. (See the Vatican decree. On a weekday, the readings must be from the readings for a pastor [specifically a pope] on a Sunday, they MAY be).

White vestments are worn for the Mass of Bl John Paul II. That’s the proper color. Furthermore, white vestments can be worn at any time (I think Good Friday is the only exception). So wearing white vestments is likewise completely within the norms.

The proper feast of Bl John Paul II is 22 October. But today, the 18th is the anniversary of his election. Sounds reasonable to choose today. And keep in mind that Pope Benedict left the date open to the local bishop. No problem there.

I don’t see anything wrong here.

Here’s a link to the text of the Vatican decree
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20110402_dec-gpii_en.html

As far as I can see, what happened in the OP is just as the Vatican describes.

 

[1ke]

Not my diocese 1ke. I’m from Boston and it was a normal Sunday in Ordinary Time here. I’m just pointing out to the OP that Springfield did the same as Charleston. (so it had to be the thanksgiving mass). I’m not sure why his pastor was confused about it. Also, I know it was not the feast day…and I know that the USCCB will have that on their November agenda.

Gotcha!

 

[AJV]

See the GIRM posted by Anna Claire
58. For the pastoral advantage of the people, it is permissible to observe on the Sundays in Ordinary Time those celebrations that fall during the week and have special appeal to the devotion of the faithful, provided the celebrations take precedence over these Sundays in the Table of Liturgical Days. The Mass for such celebrations may be used at all the Masses at which a congregation is present.

It’s perfectly acceptable for the pastor to observe on a Sunday (in Ordinal Time) a feast that falls during the week. That’s what happened.

A pastor cannot on his own authority substitute the Mass of the Sunday for the Mass of a feast during the week, unless that happens to be a feast of the Lord, or a Solemnity of the saint, whether in the general or a particular calendar.

Otherwise, it is necessary for the bishop to give this permission, in accordance with the GIRM - however, this is distinct from the passage of the GNLYC quoted, as the bishop can give permission for any “appropriate Mass” and it does not necessarily have had to have been during the week, either preceding or following.

 

[japhy]

liturgical rankings and whatnot, actually quite technical

(The ranking of liturgical days in the Ordinary Form calendar seems to me far less technical than the Extraordinary Form calendar, with all its basketball terminology… double-double, triple-double, etc.)

 

[YoungTradCath]

(The ranking of liturgical days in the Ordinary Form calendar seems to me far less technical than the Extraordinary Form calendar, with all its basketball terminology… double-double, triple-double, etc.)

Lol.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

And I was like, whaaaat? First thing I saw was white vestments… quite odd in Ordinary Time on a Sunday, I thought.

During his homily, father said all the priests of the diocese (of Charleston) were ordered by the bishop to celebrate Bl. JPII’s feast day today, which is actually on October 22. He mentioned the very true fact that Sunday liturgies are NEVER trumped by any celebration (other than the usual Sunday-celebrated ones), but then said that it was the desire of the bishop and of Rome (vague…) to have celebrated the feast day instead of the 29th Sunday of Ordinary Time, even though the 29th Sunday outranks JPII’s feast day. I don’t have a doubt in my mind that father was doing what he was supposed to do, as he was all quite confused about the situation as well, and mentioned it as “something above [his] pay-grade…” Another weird thing is that all the 29th Sunday readings were used and stuff like that.

What is the deal with this, if anyone knows? I know I met my obligation, and I’m not exactly worried. Just slightly confused. I don’t think this kind of thing really ever happens… but it just did…

Also… just re-realized that today marks the thirty-third anniversary of the election of Bl. JPII as pontifex maximus. I suspect this could have something to do with it, but it doesn’t change the fact that the 29th Sunday still outranks his feast day, which isn’t even until Saturday… i iz moar confuzd

There is nothing on your diocese’s website to say why this happened. However, they have published on their website a document called Feast in Honor of Blessed John Paul II (16 October). This at least demonstrates it was probably intended as a diocesan-wide event. It still doesn’t explain why. As you say they’ve called it the “Feast of …” not the “Thanksgiving Mass for …”. The attached document also has propers for the Office not just Mass.

 

[FrDavid96]

There is nothing on your diocese’s website to say why this happened. However, they have published on their website a document called Feast in Honor of Blessed John Paul II (16 October). This at least demonstrates it was probably intended as a diocesan-wide event. It still doesn’t explain why. As you say they’ve called it the “Feast of …” not the “Thanksgiving Mass for …”. The attached document also has propers for the Office not just Mass.

Yes. I’ve checked it also, and there’s no explanation. The OP said that the information came from the Msgr who is the “liturgical director.” So, was it approved by the bishop? It’s probably safe to say yes because the OP said it happened in every parish of the diocese.

However, here’s the decree from the Vatican.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20110402_dec-gpii_en.html

I’ve underlined certain parts.

It has been decided that during the year following the Beatification of John Paul ii, that is, until 1 May 2012, it will be possible to celebrate a Holy Mass of thanksgiving in certain places and on certain days. The responsibility of establishing the day or days as well as the place or places for gathering the People of God for this purpose belongs to the Diocesan Bishop. Having considered the local needs and pastoral benefits, one Holy Mass in honour of the new Blessed may be celebrated on any Sunday during the year or on another day of the week designated in numbers 10-13 of the Table of Liturgical Days.

Similarly, in religious communities, it is the responsibility of the Superior General to establish the days and places of such celebrations for the entire religious community.

As far as regards the celebration of Mass, besides the permission to sing the Gloria, the appropriate collect is to be prayed in honour of the Blessed; the other prayers, as well as the Preface, the Antiphons, and the Readings, are to be taken from the “Common of Pastors: For a Pope”. If the celebration falls on a Sunday in Ordinary Time, appropriate texts for the First Reading, Responsorial Psalm, and Gospel may be taken from the “Common of Pastors”.

The only thing I notice (the conclusion of your post) is that it is being referred to as a “feast of…” rather than “Mass of Thanksgiving.” That’s a distinction without a difference as far as I’m concerned. At worst, it’s a typo in the bulletin, since the actual feast is the 22nd.

 

[FrDavid96]

A pastor cannot on his own authority substitute the Mass of the Sunday for the Mass of a feast during the week, unless that happens to be a feast of the Lord, or a Solemnity of the saint, whether in the general or a particular calendar.

Otherwise, it is necessary for the bishop to give this permission, in accordance with the GIRM - however, this is distinct from the passage of the GNLYC quoted, as the bishop can give permission for any “appropriate Mass” and it does not necessarily have had to have been during the week, either preceding or following.

The pastor can do it, not on his own authority, but by the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar (GNYLC, for readers not familiar with the acronym).

1. For the pastoral advantage of the people, it is permissible to observe on the Sundays in Ordinary Time those celebrations that fall during the week and have special appeal to the devotion of the faithful, provided the celebrations take precedence over these Sundays in the Table of Liturgical Days. The Mass for such celebrations may be used at all the Masses at which a congregation is present.

Sundays in Ordinary Time rank as #5. Anything in numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4 are therefore permitted on these Sundays in OT.

#3 includes “saints listed in the General Calendar” (ie, the universal calendar). Solemnities are listed in #4.

Granted, Bl. John Paul II is not a feast in #3. So there is no direct permission from the GNYLC. It does illustrate the point though, that sometimes a feast that falls during the week can be legitimately observed on a Sunday in Ordinal Time.

In any case, the decree from the Vatican permits this (the JP II Mass) to happen:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20110402_dec-gpii_en.html

 

[AJV]

(The ranking of liturgical days in the Ordinary Form calendar seems to me far less technical than the Extraordinary Form calendar, with all its basketball terminology… double-double, triple-double, etc.)

Actually the 1962 calendar not that dissimilar from the 1969/70 - everything is I, II, III or IV Class (the last usually being lowest ranked feriae). Unless someone is actually observing the pre-1961 rankings…tsk, tsk…

 

[healonzo]

The pastor can do it, not on his own authority, but by the General Norms for the Liturgical Year and the Calendar (GNYLC, for readers not familiar with the acronym).

1. For the pastoral advantage of the people, it is permissible to observe on the Sundays in Ordinary Time those celebrations that fall during the week and have special appeal to the devotion of the faithful, provided the celebrations take precedence over these Sundays in the Table of Liturgical Days. The Mass for such celebrations may be used at all the Masses at which a congregation is present.

Sundays in Ordinary Time rank as #5. Anything in numbers 1, 2, 3, and 4 are therefore permitted on these Sundays in OT.

#3 includes “saints listed in the General Calendar” (ie, the universal calendar). Solemnities are listed in #4.

Granted, Bl. John Paul II is not a feast in #3. So there is no direct permission from the GNYLC. It does illustrate the point though, that sometimes a feast that falls during the week can be legitimately observed on a Sunday in Ordinal Time.

In any case, the decree from the Vatican permits this (the JP II Mass) to happen:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20110402_dec-gpii_en.html

Thank you. Clears up a lot for me.

 

[MarkThompson]

#3 includes “saints listed in the General Calendar” (ie, the universal calendar). Solemnities are listed in #4.

Please note that only solemnities of “saints listed in the General Calendar” are included under #3. This can be made clear by reference to the Latin, if you look at the parallelism of the genitives in the three types of solemnities listed: “Sollemnitates Domini, beatae Mariae Virginis, et Sanctorum in Calendario generali inscriptae.” I think the only solemnities of saints, other than the BVM, listed in the General Calendar are St. Joseph, SS. Peter & Paul, and All Saints.

#4 refers only to additional solemnities particular to the place (patron, anniversary of dedication), to the religious order, etc. Feasts of saints that do not rank as solemnities fall under #7, and thus must ordinarily give way to Sundays in Ordinary Time (#6).