My Priest Says He Prays Everyday for Us to Be Reunited

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MatthaiosX

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I teach a couple classes at my Greek Orthodox parish, one on Wednesday night and one on Sunday morning. Both classes are for high school students grades 11-12. So, last night a student asked me, “What’s the biggest difference between us and the Roman Catholics?” As she posed this question, my priest walked in the classroom.

I replied, “Well, that’s a long answer.”

At that point my priest chimed in saying, “No, it isn’t.”

I said, “Well Father, what is your answer?”

After having taught a class on the differences between the two, I knew that there were several things keeping us from becoming One Church again. Those issues are somewhat complicated as well, and take time to delineate on. Also, I believe our two paths significantly diverge in praxis. However, my priest had a simpler answer.

His answer was, “The pope.” He went on to say, “They see the pope as having supremacy while we have always maintained that the bishop of Rome held a place of primacy.”

Now, of course, I knew this, but surely this wasn’t where he was going to stop was it?

He said, “Look there are other differences, but they are minor in the grand scheme of things. The similarities are far greater than the differences.” He mentioned that, “In the world we live in today, I’d rather make as many allies as possible instead of making unnecessary enemies. We agree on more things than we disagree on and I pray everyday that we will be reunited.”

Honestly, that gave me a fresh view and a sense of hope and I then began to think about it and agreed with him in my mind. We should be praying for each other, we should be helping each other, especially in this chaotic modern age where Christianity is seen as something evil by some groups.

Honestly, I came on these forums because I wanted to discuss interesting topics with Catholics and get to know them better and become friends with them and hopefully bridge some gaps. From what I have been reading on here, you all are not too different from us. Yes, there are areas of divergence, but I have had several discussions on these forums where, in the beginning it seemed like we would totally disagree, but by the end it turned out that we were saying the exact same thing.

Maybe my priest is right, maybe we should focus on our similarities and fight together as one against those who seek to destroy Christendom. Maybe we are closer than we think. I pray that we would remain brothers and sisters in Christ, even though our situation be complicated.
 
Christ said, “Your are rock, and upon this rock I will build my Church.” It was in the Act of the Apostle’s they (12 Twelve) found a successor to Judas Iscariot. He gave Saint Peter, with the Holy Apostle’s to loose, and to bind. He also illustrated that with the Vine and the Branches. In the Theological scheme of things, I think that is the main difference.

Christ chose 12 Apostle’s and gave the keys to Saint Peter.

Don’t get me wrong There are more things in common than differences. But, those fewer differences could affect someone’s Salvation.

I honestly like the Byzantine Celebration. The Music, Art, and Language. The Church has so much Orthodox diversity in her structure and components. It just takes people to come back to her. And fill her with the aroma and smell of jubilee. Of Worship and prayers. The Church has two lungs, as Saint Pope John Paul II stated. The Latin and Greek Rite/Traditions are good. We still say Kyrie Eleison in the Latin Mass. All the Latin preserved translations of Scripture come from either originally Greek manuscripts or Hebrew. I think the Byzantine Tradition elevates the Latin Tradition. Like the staff of Aaron to Moses. Holding him up to do God’s will.
 
I’d like to know what your priest thinks “supremacy” and “primacy” mean, since we ourselves describe the bishop of Rome as having “primacy”.
 
Well, Christ chose 12 Apostle’s. A teaching authority and body. He gave to the head of the Church, Saint Peter. For they were silent when He asked, “Who do you say that I am?” Saint Peter replied, “You are the Son of the living God.” That was the rock and foundation Christ merited from him. He also said to Saint Peter, “I will make you fishers of men.”

Supremacy? Primacy? Well, Jesus is the chief cornerstone the builders rejected. If He made Saint Peter the rock, to hold/bind to, hence the word in Latin (religare/religion), He made Saint Peter the head of His Household, His Church. In fact Saint Paul’s attention to men being the head of the household follows with the way the Church exists.

Jesus even asked Saint Peter, three times, “Do you love me?” Saint Peter replied “yes” three times. And Christ said, “Feed my sheep.” He made Saint Peter the marker of Apostleship. That out of the 12, Jesus had placed special attention to Saint Peter’s role in the Church. And that,as we see from Acts, the successor of Judas Iscariot was chosen. Thus that is how Church’s Tradition has been carried out since that time.

Special attention to Saint Peter’s role as head of the Church. That is what the chief cornerstone raised him up as.

But, let me digress a little. When you have schisms. And many are not the fault of people like Saint Basil. The Greek rite was under much chaos and turmoil, that they fall from the Latin Church. Mainly because of wars done by pagans, and possibly Muslims. So what could the people do? In those days, it wasn’t commodious transportation. Or the social structure as it is today. When people fell and broke apart from the Church, by no fault of their own. They had to preserve the Traditions of the Church as best as they could. Under the setting they were Greek speaking people at the time. So the wounds were there, just has Christ bore. them. The Church suffered through the Schism. And so the people as well. The fact that the Greek rite has preserved the Sacraments, though be it split. Though the wounds which are there. They still hold onto many of the Traditions. And why we have so much more in common. I mean, during Christ’s Passion, there was a split. The Apostel’s fled. how could they preserve during the time Christ was persecuted? The wounds they felt as one of them turned Christ over to the Sanhedrin. Or when Saint Peter, the head of the Church, promised to be at Christ’s side. And yet denied Him when the rooster crowed twice. So the similarity occurred between the Easter and Latin Rites. But the 11 gathered together after Christ death, and around the time of the Resurrection. He re-united them. The two lungs of the Church will be restored.
 
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I would guess that most of the problems today are because of the political/secular/national situations that unfortunately affect us as churches as well. There is a need for unity but no one wants to be directed by another. A doesn’t speak to B because they have been fighting nationally even though it might have been centuries ago. C doesn’t speak with A but only with B and D as they are good friends. D is allied with A but disagree with E, F, G. B and C don’t even know E, F, G. H asks what is the problem? A, B, C, D, E. F, G stare at H and think H is a complete moron. I-L say we can’t wait any longer but need to act now. M-O don’t care at all but are happy doing their own things. P-Z don’t even understand the common languages.

There is a huge need for Christian unity. Especially when we see what the rest of the world is like.
 
I watched a catholic historian on YouTube describe the situation as a divorce and great sin. The Catholic Church can tolerate any sort of heresy but no schism and the Orthodox Church’s can tolerate any sort of schism but no heresy. We need to reunite.
 
Folks,

PLEASE!

This is NOT the thread in which to describe why orthodoxy is “wrong”, or why Peter had primacy, or even the fact of the primacy of the bishop of Rome. It is also the wrong place to convince Orthodox that they are in error, or to repeat the (nonsensical and historically inaccurate, as well as contradictory to RC teaching) claim that the orthodox “left”, schism, or fell away.

This is a charitable approach seeking understanding–please respond in charity, not condescendingly.

That said . . .

Yes, MatthaiosX, your priest has nailed it.

I think that +Benedict and +Bartholomew could have found a path to communion. In fact, that path can gee found in Cardinal Ratzinger’s writings, and those of Archbishop Zogby.

I think that tB&B (hmm, never noticed that before) also recognized that the RO would never for it . . .

But, yes, prayer and discussion is the path, not expecting the other side to cave and surrender.

The discussions not whether the pope has a primacy; the question is what it means.

There is also the matter of how to “walk back” some the positions taken over the years (and, frankly, more those have come from the Roman than Orthodox camp [much as some of the Mt Athos folks are trying to make up for lost time . . . pity the Jesuits didn’t take them up on the offer to open shop there a century or two ago . . .]).
anyway, look at where the talks between the Catholics and Oriental Orthodox went a few years ago . . . both sides coming out, blushing, and saying roughly, “err, uhm, it seems that we’ve actually been saying the whole thing the whole time, but using different words.”

hawk
 
If I may chime in 🙂

This divorce between both East and West had more to do with language differences, geography and politics then it did theology (I think theological matters could have been settled if it were not for the issues I just mentioned).

The eastern Patriarchs were closer to one another, geographically speaking, and shared a common language, Greek. In the west, it was Latin. This made communication difficult between the eastern Patriarchs and the Pope of Rome. As the Muslim world grew and spread across the east into the Iberian peninsula, it created a geographical barrier. Travel between east and west became a bit more difficult.

Politically speaking, the east had a more stable government. A strong emperor who was able to maintain some order while in the west, after the fall of the western half of the Roman empire, had no real central power. The Bishop of Rome became the central figure. He was able to maintain some stability while many nations began popping up in the west and waring with each other. When you look at the history and writings of the Church at that time (late 10th century and early 11th century), both east and west lived in harmony, at least at the local level. Latin’s and Byzantines celebrated with one another and probably saw any tension between Rome and Constantinople as an old married couple having a spat, haha! I didn’t effect their relationship with each other. The fall of Constantinople, of course, changed a lot of that.

These three issues (language barrier, geographical barrier due to the spread of Islam throughout the east and politics) played an enormous role in the divorce between east and west. These of course were not the only factors but probably played a role when it came to the east and west not seeing eye to eye on certain matters. Of course, I’m sure there was a little bit of an ego problem at times with the Pope of Rome, the Patriarch of Constantinople and their brother Patriarchs.

I don’t believe that it is one churches fault over the other. It takes two to tango and, unfortunately, even those holding authority over the Church (Pope of Rome and the Patriarchs) probably allowed their human emotions and egos get the best of them.

I agree with hawk, prayer and continued discussion is needed. We cannot expect one side to surrender. The Church of the first millennia was united. I think we can be united in this day and age as well. I’m a fan of the Zogby Initiative and there has been some headway. Hopefully it continues!

ZP
 
I would also add that the kerfluffle about the filioque was fundamentally linguistic–if you translate the latin back to the greek with the original verb, it becomes heretical. With another of the many greek verbs for “proceed”, it would be an innocuous statement (although the bit about unilateral modification of the cree would be remin a problem).

hawk
 
Welcome, my brother! I’m glad you are here. I pray for unity every time I go to Mass, which has been every day during Lent this year 🙂
 
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