My problem with empathy.. can anybody relate to this?

[Angels_Unaware]

you’re definitely not alone. :hug1: i am one of those people who tends to mourn the world too – i was in therapy a few years ago for it, but ultimately my therapist told me that there is nothing wrong with my thinking. the fallen world is a suffering, diseased, unjust, miserable place where horrible things happen. empathy for is not a disease, disorder, or imbalance. it is a gift, i have been assured of this by my priest and the sisters that i once discerned with. God has a purpose for it. i have no clue what that purpose is, and at times i would like to wrap up this “gift” and re-gift it to someone else (preferably someone i don’t like LOL ) but it’s what God gave me, so i think it must be a good thing. and actually for all i have read, hardness of heart is much more a problem in the world than empathy.

when i feel too soft for the world, i unite my grief with Our Lady, who surely weeps for the suffering of her children the way only a mother can. beyond that, i do limit my exposure to the constant deluge of information about all of these things which upset me. i went vegan because i can’t bring myself to participate in the violence and cruelty i see in the meat industry, and it troubles me also to consume a rich diet while half the world starves. i give when i can, i help where and when i can, and it helps me, to know that i might be making a difference in some small way. people have said, “you can’t save them all” which is true, but if i can save even one, then it is better than doing nothing.

Our Lady is also very important to me when I feel too deeply.I also limit my exposure to information. I do not watch television at all. There is really nothing I am interested in seeing. A lot of it has become just… unappealing.

 

[cathybramble]

Our Lady is also very important to me when I feel too deeply.I also limit my exposure to information. I do not watch television at all. There is really nothing I am interested in seeing. A lot of it has become just… unappealing.

yup, ditto on getting rid of TV - the lowest common denominator for most programming seems to have gotten extremely low anyway, in my opinion.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Yup, but it seems to me that even the large amount of apathy we see in the culture may very well have its origin in oversensitivity. Road rage is certainly another symptom (that our culture recognizes as negative) of that oversensitivity that all too many people haven’t learned to balance, yet. You were sure right with your earlier post, talking about our need for balance of emotional expression. In fact, I suppose that would even cover our cultures’ imbalance in sexual areas. Thoughts?

Gee…well, um…to start with western civilizations’ problems with sexual matters and extremes of indulgence, I think this is the product of a hedonistic society driven by pleasure and the almost obsessive and compulsive need for pleasure and what produces extremes I think is when A+ = Pleasure no longer satisfies, then one searches for A++ =Pand then A+++ =P. And hence it just gets worse and more sickening - even frightening. I find it quite scarey that reality shows, of which our television entertainment seems to abound, really is the enjoyment of another’s discomfort even pain…and that is a type of sadism. What next year, I wonder!

As for oversensitivity. It is the very nature of detachment to be able to put one’s emotions and feelings, needs etc., aside quite peacefully and without stress no matter how pressing and act contrary to them without a sense of ‘sacrifice’, denial etc. Undoubtedly the early stages of detachment do ask separating from self in a spirit of denial and sacrifice. That is one expression of detachment.

I really think that The Gospel and our spiritual theology has all the answers for our world and for our society, if only we would really invest in it and fearlessly. Then, as The Lord promised, our reward would be a return of one hundredfold in all things. “You are the salt of the earth, and if salt looses its taste”…and I think our society is faltering or lacking in salt with taste? Where then the blame? We can lament and groan this and that in the here and the over there, but The Lord has told us where to search for blame if there is a need to start searching for blame.

Just my l’il ol’ take on things! Thank you for asking, I love to sprout and shout, proclaim and preach! …midst a multitude of other faults and failings.

Barb

 

[Dameedna]

I
I cannot tolerate repeating some of the stories, but I will give an example. Last August a woman drove to work and left her 11 month old baby in the backseat of her minivan for 8hours while she went to work and the baby suffered terribly and died. I didn’t read that- I read a detailed description of how the baby suffered and what she felt before she died and the evidence that the coroner had to that effect.

I would think an individual would be very glad that they felt pain for the child. This doesn’t really explain your anghst.

and that evening when I had time to think my mind went back to the story and instead of dwelling on the horror, helplessness and pain of that story I became furiously angry at this mother for being so disconnected from her child and for (seemingly) valuing her career before her baby at home that needed her. (She was an evangelical Christian and was married to a man with a good income, and was in a profession she could have temporarily left to stay home with her infant.)

This however, does explain your anghst.

Do you have empathy for this mother? You are maybe rightly, or maybe wrongly making a claim that this woman should not have gone to work. A baby in a hot car, will die within around 30 minutues(usually less). It does not take 8 hours of work, so the working issue…is actually moot. This can happen on a trip to the grocery store for any stay at home mother.

Is she irresponsible? What was going on with her life? The point is…you really don’t know.

I think you want to feel empathy, but only feel empathy for the weak. Perhaps real empathy comes from understanding the victimizer as well as the victim.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Excuse me? I never said I did not feel empathy for the mother. I think you’ve missed the point of that example.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I would think an individual would be very glad that they felt pain for the child. This doesn’t really explain your anghst.

This however, does explain your anghst.

Do you have empathy for this mother? You are maybe rightly, or maybe wrongly making a claim that this woman should not have gone to work. A baby in a hot car, will die within around 30 minutues(usually less). It does not take 8 hours of work, so the working issue…is actually moot. This can happen on a trip to the grocery store for any stay at home mother.

Is she irresponsible? What was going on with her life? The point is…you really don’t know.

I think you want to feel empathy, but only feel empathy for the weak. Perhaps real empathy comes from understanding the victimizer as well as the victim.

Excuse me? I never said I did not feel empathy for the mother. You have completely missed the point.

 

[kaws]

Excuse me? I never said I did not feel empathy for the mother. You have completely missed the point.

I can somewhat relate to your situation. I have had problems with empathy and depression also. To the point that ten years ago I had a major break-down and spent a semester in college basically holed up in my dorm room without going to classes or interacting with people because I couldn’t handle it. I was studying environmental studies because I wanted to make a positive difference in the world but I came to the realization that often doing the right thing in one way had negative consequences in another way in terms of human suffering . With counseling and prayer I have been able to cope. I probably am a bit more detached, but I still try to maintain a sense of “functional” empathy. I will pray for you that God will help you channel your empathy and lessen your anxiety and suffering.

That said, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I do agree it did seem to me also like you came across pretty harshly judgmental against the mother because she was working and not staying at home. I don’t think there is anything inherently sinful with working or stay-at-home moms. Both require hard work and sacrifice in different ways and have benefits and drawbacks. Maybe we misunderstood your intent?

 

[Angels_Unaware]

That said, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I do agree it did seem to me also like you came across pretty harshly judgmental against the mother because she was working and not staying at home. I don’t think there is anything inherently sinful with working or stay-at-home moms. Both require hard work and sacrifice in different ways and have benefits and drawbacks. Maybe we misunderstood your intent?

My reaction to the story was to first feel horrible for the baby, then angry at the situation that caused the child’s suffering, and then to feel sympathy for the family and the mother who has to live with the guilt of this. I took a cue from one of the posts in this thread and read some things about “empathic over-arousal” and it led me to some writings on empathy. Apparently, empathy is the first step in the development of morality in human thinking. You cannot have moral judgment without first having empathy for how one person’s actions affect other people. That was interesting to me.

There’s a difference between having great empathy for a person’s mistake, and genuinely forgiving a person’s mistake, and excusing a person’s mistake. I feel great empathy and sympathy for the mother’s mistake. I forgive her for being human and becoming distracted and forgetting her child for 8 hours.

I know, of course, that she did not intend to do this and she will punish herself for the rest of her life. I would give her a hug and tell her I am sorry if I saw her. I don’t want her to suffer anymore than she has. I will not say, though, that this was an entirely blameless situation for the mother and that it could happen to absolutely anyone. In this case, the mom had a mirror that was pointed directly at her child, and so she was in her line of sight when she went into autopilot and forgot her child. This mother had to have been under a great deal of stress and pressure. She was by all accounts a wonderful mother, but she put herself under too much pressure. That is forgivable, and it does not detract from her character. I do believe she is a loving mother. But it is not excusable. See the difference? Something that is excusable is something that we could never prevent no matter how hard we tried and we have no control over the situation. Here, I think there are some things society should do as a whole to prevent things like this. For example- alarms in the car might help, but more than anything people just need to slow down and live a more simple life. Live as simply as possible so you can put your children first emotionally.

When my youngest daughter was born, I had no choice but to work. I would have given anything to have been able to stay home with her, but I could not. She had to be in daycare, and there was nothing I could do. However, she was within walking distance and I nursed her at lunch. I always was mentally checking her in my mind, thinking, “ok, where is she? Is she ok now?”.

The mom who had this terrible accident had some kind of break down in her mind that prevented her from focusing on her child for a crucial moment. In her case, it was reported that the mom had a change in routine. So, that makes sense. BUT, then the babysitter who was supposed to take care of the little girl said mom had not even called her the night before as she was supposed to and she had no idea where the little girl was supposed to be that day.

I am a sinner and an imperfect mother, and I pray for mercy, love, and forgiveness and healing for the family. I do not excuse, though, the general need that we all have to not deliberately over-stress ourselves so we can be there for our children. Make sense?

 

[kaws]

Yes, your clarification makes a great deal of sense. I agree with you that as individuals and as a society we need to slow down and place a greater focus on the important things that matter most in life like family and faith . I myself have had a bad habit of being absent minded and forgetful at times:blush: I don’t think I’d ever be able to forgive myself if my inattentiveness had inadvertently let something this tragic happen to my baby . Stories like this make me ever more vigilant and mindful of my children and surroundings! Peace.

 

[redhen]

Apparently, empathy is the first step in the development of morality in human thinking.

Yup, this is usually the normal path of maturation. Young children (ages 2 - 7) are very egocentric. The ability to put yourself in someone else’s shoes is vital for living in society. This is the problem with sociopaths.

Stories like this make me ever more vigilant and mindful of my children and surroundings

Mindfulness is the key. There are way too many distractions for North Americans. When I lived in West Germany 30 years ago, many of the cars did not even have cup holders. The idea being, if you’re behind the wheel, there’s only one thing you should be doing, and that’s driving. (especially on the Autobahn where there’s no speed limits )

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I took a cue from one of the posts in this thread and read some things about “empathic over-arousal” and it led me to some writings on empathy. Apparently, empathy is the first step in the development of morality in human thinking. You cannot have moral judgment without first having empathy for how one person’s actions affect other people. That was interesting to me.

Just to clarify…I meant that over empathisizing is when our empathic emotions decommission one in important life matters and overcome one which is an extreme. I would rather suffer with that extreme though, then the other, which would be a psychopathic personality disorder and complete lack of empathy and guilt feelings. I did not mean that empathy was in any way negative or undesirable (and I dont think you meant to infer this) and yes, it is probably the first steps we take in really decommissioning our egocentric self - we begin to be able to empathisize with others, putting ourselves in their shoes - seeing a situation ‘through the eyes and feelings of the other’.

Barb