My problem with religion

[Wesley7]

My religion Christianity is something you stick with your whole life.

. .

 

[dostoyevskyfan]

Your post was fine, just want to make a minor correction here. I assume you’re referring to the Catholic Church. Whether you are or not, that is incorrect. Even the Catholic Church recognizes the Apostolic Succession of the Orthodox Church. And the LDS Church (which is Bible-believing if not Christian) also claims to have Apostolic Succession (whether it does or not is another matter entirely).

That is all. Carry on with your regularly scheduled discussion.

You’re right. I should have said “legitimately claim apostolic succession”. I think *all *denominations claim to be have been founded by Christ. I’ve heard all kinds of hogwash including but not limited to, “the early church were really just ‘born again’ christians”. The EO church was in communion with us for the first 1000 years and I consider them “Catholic” in the original sense of the word, which meant universal. I’ll refrain from commenting on LDS to remain charitable…

If anyone wants to investigate this matter on your own, pick up a copy of Eusebius’ history of the church.

 

[CMatt25]

I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.

theonetruth, do not allow such zealots to drag you down. Such Christians unfortunately often mix up the meaning of faith and beliefs with thinking they are absolutely 100% correct on every crossed “t” and dotted “i”. You can find Christians who are indeed more tolerant and accepting. CAF might not always be the best place on earth to seek those Christians but they’re out there. There are Christians in other words who seek unity in Him and do not sweat the smaller stuff. There is one truth. For me as a Christian by faith, Jesus tells me it is He. “I am the truth” He tells me in Jn 14:6.

I believe we will know the one truth in time. My faith is He will come again. And I suspect we will look back and realize a lot of our differences were trivial in comparision. Christ afterall broke down a wall in Eph 2:14. He Whom unites us all is far greater than any differences we might have. In the meantime God bless you as you seek. Peace.

 

[VetA]

I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices.

it would seem that you are a relativist, therefore i cannot talk to you because you will say “well thats true for you but what about an athiest or bhuddist” but the condemnation of sexual sin are very biblical concepts not the least of these is this

[BIBLEDRB]1 Corinthians 6:18[/BIBLEDRB]

Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong.

again relativism

Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.

provide some examples of these coincidences that you speak of, do not insult us by charging without providing evidence. and the black magic of which you speak are miracles

 

[CMatt25]

it would seem that you are a relativist, therefore i cannot talk to you because you will say "well thats true for you…

Yeah maybe and he would be correct. It is true for you since that is what you believe. So you can’t talk to him because you disagree with him? I’m missing how that is showing love and the Golden Rule toward your neighbor. I don’t agree with you so I am not talking to you? Good luck with that concept. And we wonder why the world is divided.

 

[theonetruth]

I would like to start off by saying I know quite a bit about religion. I was a practicing catholic for 19 years. I would appreciate it if people would stop trying to convince me that I am in some sense of the word ‘wrong’.

I just need you to look at this from my perspective.

Now I am sorry if I offended anyone with the Black Magic part. But if it is unexplainable therefore isn’t it illogical and therefore irrational.

As for how religion screws with people’s head. About 2 years ago a Catholic boy admitted he was a homosexual to the Catholic church he attended. Then then proceeded to perform a
exorcism on this boy who was no older then 13. Since he trusted the religion and the followers of it he really believed there was something wrong with him. Even in the Bible homosexuals and other groups are not tolerated. Lily did I refer to anything illegal or not accepted by ‘mainstream’ society??

I just try to take a logical approach to all situations. Walking on water or turning water into wine is illogical from my point of view. Also It would be hard for me to believe in something that has absolutely no proof behind it. Any regular human being would take a different situation with very similar properties and dismiss it entirely.

Where do people get that I am a relativist and accuse me of things like that. I am on a search for the truth just like everyone else.

Edit: I definitely can’t be a part of something that rapes their own then tries to cover it up.

 

[JHMB]

As for how religion screws with people’s head. About 2 years ago a Catholic boy admitted he was a homosexual to the Catholic church he attended. Then then proceeded to perform a exorcism on this boy who was no older then 13. Since he trusted the religion and the followers of it he really believed there was something wrong with him.

Do you have direct knowledge of this, or is your opinion based upon hearsay or rumor…
I’ll bet that it is the latter.

Even if it is true, imperfect people in an imperfect world do stupid things.
No sense in using such an example to trash an entire religion.

I just try to take a logical approach to all situations. Walking on water or turning water into wine is illogical from my point of view. Also It would be hard for me to believe in something that has absolutely no proof behind it. Any regular human being would take a different situation with very similar properties and dismiss it entirely.

I am a student of common sense and logic.
Not everything can be explained by common sense and logic.
Proof is relative. I look at the testimony in the scriptures, which represents truth and proof.
If you are applying logic to justify your dis-belief, you are simply fooling yourself.
If you truly understand why Jesus came, you would understand the logic of his actions.

Edit: I definitely can’t be a part of something that rapes their own then tries to cover it up.

Been there, done that. That is how I justified my absence from the church.
Using common sense and logic, I finally understood that I was using my anger to these situations to justify my anti-Catholic behavior.
Stop fooling yourself, grow up and be logical.

Unfortunately, politicians do this all of the time.
Are you going to move out of the US because of their similiar bahavior? Don’t think so.

First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices.

If you want to do whatever you want, and act like an undisciplined child, you will not like the common sense restrictions of religion.

You complain about bad behavior in the church, yet you want no restrictions on your personal behavior.

Time to grow up, accept responsibly for your actions, and act like a civil human being.

If you truly understood religion as you claim, you would know the answer to your questions.

Direct and honest,

Jamie

 

[mchale]

I would like to start off by saying I know quite a bit about religion. I was a practicing catholic for 19 years. I would appreciate it if people would stop trying to convince me that I am in some sense of the word ‘wrong’.

In your first post, you seemed to ask us to try to convince you (You said, if I remember correctly, “maybe some of you can convince me”). Further, what exactly are expecting when you post to a Catholic Forum?

I just need you to look at this from my perspective.

Look at what exactly?

Now I am sorry if I offended anyone with the Black Magic part. But if it is unexplainable therefore isn’t it illogical and therefore irrational.

You are equating different things that are not related.

1. Black Magic, specifically is magical power that come from an explicitly evil force, usually demonic. Therefore by suggesting that miracles – acts of divine intervention in the world – are black magic, you are essentially accusing God of being the Devil.
2. If something is unexplainable, it is unexplainable. It doesn’t mean it is illogical or irrational. In fact, what you really seem to mean by unexplainable, is unexplainable by scientific method.

As for how religion screws with people’s head. About 2 years ago a Catholic boy admitted he was a homosexual to the Catholic church he attended. Then then proceeded to perform a
exorcism on this boy who was no older then 13. Since he trusted the religion and the followers of it he really believed there was something wrong with him. Even in the Bible homosexuals and other groups are not tolerated. Lily did I refer to anything illegal or not accepted by ‘mainstream’ society??

I just try to take a logical approach to all situations. Walking on water or turning water into wine is illogical from my point of view. Also It would be hard for me to believe in something that has absolutely no proof behind it. Any regular human being would take a different situation with very similar properties and dismiss it entirely.

So I am just curious, do you disregard the Theories of Relativity of Quantum Mechanics, since they both seem illogical from a common point of view.

I would also point out, that proof is something limited to Mathematics. I can’t even prove you exist, let alone God. The term you are looking for is evidence. Ultimately, there is evidence, it simply does not meet your standards (And ever wonder if your standards might be the problem?).

Where do people get that I am a relativist and accuse me of things like that. I am on a search for the truth just like everyone else.

In your initial post, you complained that the Church tried to convince people that their truth was the one and only truth. In addition, you complain because the Church’s teachings interfere with people’s religious, sexual and personal choices. Those positions tend to define you as a Relativist. In any given matter, there is only one truth. No you may not agree that the Church’s position, represents the truth, but that did not seem to be your original objection… it seemed to be that the church taught that there was a single truth.

Edit: I definitely can’t be a part of something that rapes their own then tries to cover it up.

So when are you planning on leaving the Human race.

–
Bill

 

[VetA]

Yeah maybe and he would be correct. It is true for you since that is what you believe. So you can’t talk to him because you disagree with him? I’m missing how that is showing love and the Golden Rule toward your neighbor. I don’t agree with you so I am not talking to you? Good luck with that concept. And we wonder why the world is divided.

i meant to convey my inadequacy to deal with relativistic thought. these posts below seem to be the message i wished to convey

Do you have direct knowledge of this, or is your opinion based upon hearsay or rumor…
I’ll bet that it is the latter.

Even if it is true, imperfect people in an imperfect world do stupid things.
No sense in using such an example to trash an entire religion.

I am a student of common sense and logic.
Not everything can be explained by common sense and logic.
Proof is relative. I look at the testimony in the scriptures, which represents truth and proof.
If you are applying logic to justify your dis-belief, you are simply fooling yourself.
If you truly understand why Jesus came, you would understand the logic of his actions.

Been there, done that. That is how I justified my absence from the church.
Using common sense and logic, I finally understood that I was using my anger to these situations to justify my anti-Catholic behavior.
Stop fooling yourself, grow up and be logical.

Unfortunately, politicians do this all of the time.
Are you going to move out of the US because of their similiar bahavior? Don’t think so.

If you want to do whatever you want, and act like an undisciplined child, you will not like the common sense restrictions of religion.

You complain about bad behavior in the church, yet you want no restrictions on your personal behavior.

Time to grow up, accept responsibly for your actions, and act like a civil human being.

If you truly understood religion as you claim, you would know the answer to your questions.

Direct and honest,

Jamie

In your first post, you seemed to ask us to try to convince you (You said, if I remember correctly, “maybe some of you can convince me”). Further, what exactly are expecting when you post to a Catholic Forum?

Look at what exactly?

You are equating different things that are not related.

1. Black Magic, specifically is magical power that come from an explicitly evil force, usually demonic. Therefore by suggesting that miracles – acts of divine intervention in the world – are black magic, you are essentially accusing God of being the Devil.
2. If something is unexplainable, it is unexplainable. It doesn’t mean it is illogical or irrational. In fact, what you really seem to mean by unexplainable, is unexplainable by scientific method.

So I am just curious, do you disregard the Theories of Relativity of Quantum Mechanics, since they both seem illogical from a common point of view.

I would also point out, that proof is something limited to Mathematics. I can’t even prove you exist, let alone God. The term you are looking for is evidence. Ultimately, there is evidence, it simply does not meet your standards (And ever wonder if your standards might be the problem?).

In your initial post, you complained that the Church tried to convince people that their truth was the one and only truth. In addition, you complain because the Church’s teachings interfere with people’s religious, sexual and personal choices. Those positions tend to define you as a Relativist. In any given matter, there is only one truth. No you may not agree that the Church’s position, represents the truth, but that did not seem to be your original objection… it seemed to be that the church taught that there was a single truth.

So when are you planning on leaving the Human race.

–
Bill

 

[CMatt25]

Where do people get that I am a relativist and accuse me of things like that. I am on a search for the truth just like everyone else.

Edit: I definitely can’t be a part of something that rapes their own then tries to cover it up.

That’s just something a lot of CAF Catholics like to do it appears when you don’t agree with them about something. I’m accused of being a relativist all the time. But you’re right it makes no sense to accuse of relativism since we are all afterall seeking the one truth.

As to your last point, so called Apostolic successors who preach the sanctity of life ought to know better than to cover up child abuse. But the only answer you’re going to get from this crowd is not to do as bishops do. To do as they say. In other words the bishops don’t have to practice what they preach. I know you do not share my faith but allow me to bring Jesus into the picture if you don’t mind. Jesus said otherwise. He said beware of false prophets and by their fruits you shall know them. And it’s a no brainer for me that covering up child abuse is not exactly good fruit.

Again peace to you on your journey to truth.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.

you remind me of this guy that i talked to the other day. this man is a protestant and he was enterpreting the Book of Revelation, i mean, some Scriptures in it.

so, i told him that those things had already happened, and it is cleared that it did happen. he turned to me and said: “no, that was the enterpretation of the CC.”

i did not want to argue with him. Truth is something that we must beg for it. you dont just take it. what i am trying to say is that, it is not about one’s opinion, but there is one Truth, one and only One Truth. just think about it. he said it was the Catholic Church’s enterpretation, but i ask, whose enterpretation should we believe? my own? this guy’s enterpretation? his congregation? or the One Ancient Church? who do i follow? who do i believe? this is the question. do i follow? any man? Marx? hittler, Obama? some philosopher?
as i read school books, i wonder, how far are we from God. man has put himself in charge above God by forbidden all that is from God to others. he has made the decision that God is not to be mention publicly.

I ask you who should be in charge, man or GOD? and if it is man, who?

 

[PJM]

=theonetruth;6730975]I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.

***Of course NOT!

There are moral rights an moral wrongs. That is the precise reason humanity alone have been loaned a mind, intellect and frewwill and soul. All of these are SPIRITUAL THINGS
[quantify for us your intellect. What is it’s shape, color, size, weight?.. you can’t! We can prove they exist but not see, thouch, smell or feel them. THEY ARE SPIRITUAL GIFTS!

*Of the humdreds of thousands of “living things” on earth; ONLY humanity has these Spiriual Gifts…WHY?

So we can choose good and avoid evil!

We can ignore this, deny this, or spin this; but we can’t change the basic truth. There is a God; heaven and hell are real; Eternity is forever; and thre is a PRICE TO BE PAID FOR admission.Both to hell…“cheap and easy” and for Heaven: Take Up your Cross and Follow Me…

Phil.2: 8 “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross **Luke.9 :23 **And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. **Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Luke.9: 23 And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 **Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.” **Matt.5: 19 **“Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. “ **Matt.19: 17 **“And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. **If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” **

These friend are God’s words NOT mine.

The ten commandmnts and the Beautitudes are not options. They are hard and fast rules on how one should conduct themselves in a moral society.**

Conscience is the steering mecehism for these Spiritual gifts; so we can know if we are using them or abusing them. That too is a function of these Spiriual Gifts.

I will gladly take the time to explain what we believe and why we belive it, in detail, but I’m not buying into your excuses. SORRY!

I’m not selling anything; just explaining.

Love and prayers,
Pat

 

[Thomas58]

I have a few problems with any type of religion and that is why I am not a christian anymore. Maybe some of you can convince me. First of all most religions christianity in particular are not acceptant of all people choices whether it be their sexuality or other religions or even their personal life choices. Next, religion screws up people’s heads and convinced them of whatever is said in church is the one and only truth and they become unreasonable on some topics that they were convinced were immoral or wrong. Finally religion relyls on coincidences and black magic to ‘prove’ their stories. And of course I will get tons of angry letter with extremely irrational reasons. Please give me your well constructed opinions.

I would like to recommend a very easy to read little book that I think would really help clear up your thinking. It is called; “A Refutation of Moral Relativism” by Peter Kreeft.

I would highly recommend this book to those who are looking for “logical” and “reasoned” answers to the type of questions that you are asking.

 

[CMatt25]

i meant to convey my inadequacy to deal with relativistic thought.

That’s ok. I don’t always understand humans thinking they have everything 100% absolutely correct either. So we’re even. Peace.