My problem with the concept of hell

[MikiBee]

There is no timetable. We never lose our free will…

Ahh, but there are many people in these forums that would disagree with you there. They would say that your fate is set the moment you die. When you die after your VERY short lifespan when compared to ETERNITY, and you have any unconfessed mortal sins, you will suffer in hell forever. And just remember, a mortal sin can be missing a mass, or really wanting that car your neighbor just bought… All eternity …

That is what I have difficulties with.

And yes, I can agree with you on how man’s sins cause much suffering. But I don’t agree that those sins should cost us eternal suffering. I can’t imagine that I am more compassionate than God. So it’s hard for me to believe if I couldn’t torture someone for eternity, that God would. He’s infinitely more loving than I am.

And yes, I know you or someone else will rebut that it isn’t God that is sealing our fate, it is us (the sinner) that choose to go to hell. I can’t believe that either, because suffering eternal damnation is not something a human can possibly choose. In order to choose something we need to understand what we are choosing. No one can understand eternity and the amount of suffering that is in hell.

My second grade teacher (a nun) tried to explain to us 7 and 8 year olds about eternity. She told us that 1 million years was like a single grain of sand on the earth. And once every million years a bird would come and flick off 1 grain of sand. She said by the time the bird flicked off every grain of sand off the earth, that would be day 1 of eternity. Then the bird would start over. A million years is hard to grasp, even as an adult. I think you could even say 1 year and it would still seem like forever… so you get my point. How can a human possibly understand what they’re getting themselves into?

I know when I read back through my post, I might seem argumentative. But if you could hear my words, you would only hear desperation to understand… not an argument.

 

[tonyrey]

                            There is no timetable. We never lose our free will...                                 Ahh, but there are many people in these forums that would disagree with you there. They would say that your fate is set the moment you die.

Why would and could we lose our free will when we die? We are created in God’s image and share in His power forever.

When you die after your VERY short lifespan when compared to ETERNITY, and you have any unconfessed mortal sins, you will suffer in hell forever. And just remember, a mortal sin can be missing a mass, or really wanting that car your neighbor just bought… All eternity …

This concept of God is very primitive. How can it be reconciled with His infinite love and mercy?!

That is what I have difficulties with.

I’m not surprised! It is a distortion of Christianity.

And yes, I can agree with you on how man’s sins cause much suffering. But I don’t agree that those sins should cost us eternal suffering. I can’t imagine that I am more compassionate than God. So it’s hard for me to believe if I couldn’t torture someone for eternity, that God would. He’s infinitely more loving than I am.

Exactly. God tortures no one. Those who are evil are tortured by their own pride, vanity, ambition, selfishness, greed, cruelty and callousness which alienate and isoltae them from others.

And yes, I know you or someone else will rebut that it isn’t God that is sealing our fate, it is us (the sinner) that choose to go to hell. I can’t believe that either, because suffering eternal damnation is not something a human can possibly choose. In order to choose something we need to understand what we are choosing. No one can understand eternity and the amount of suffering that is in hell.

The damned don’t fall unwittingly into a trap set by God. They foresee very lucidly the consequences of their decision to exist solely for themselves. Hell is obviously not a state of sheer misery. Otherwise it would be lunacy to forsake the prospect of heaven. There is great pleasure and satisfaction in having total control of your own life without having to defer to a higher authority.

My second grade teacher (a nun) tried to explain to us 7 and 8 year olds about eternity. She told us that 1 million years was like a single grain of sand on the earth. And once every million years a bird would come and flick off 1 grain of sand. She said by the time the bird flicked off every grain of sand off the earth, that would be day 1 of eternity. Then the bird would start over. A million years is hard to grasp, even as an adult. I think you could even say 1 year and it would still seem like forever… so you get my point. How can a human possibly understand what they’re getting themselves into?

We already live in the eternal present! The past and the future always elude us… All we need to know is that we are incapable of grasping the infinite love of God or the infinite depths of evil but we can glimpse those extremes in what we witness in this world: the incredible heroism of those who dedicate their lives to the the afflicted

I know when I read back through my post, I might seem argumentative. But if you could hear my words, you would only hear desperation to understand… not an argument.

I deeply sympathise with your anguish. The dominating thought in our minds should be that Jesus loves us so much that He suffered and died to** liberate** us from evil. Remember the words of Saint Paul:

“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,a] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Nothing except ourselves… If we follow His example we are already with Him and have nothing to fear. Heaven and hell begin in this world, not the next!

 

[tonyrey]

MikiBee;5744852:

There is no timetable. We never lose our free will… Ahh, but there are many people in these forums that would disagree with you there. They would say that your fate is set the moment you die.

Why would and could we lose our free will when we die? We are created in God’s image and share in His power forever.

When you die after your VERY short lifespan when compared to ETERNITY, and you have any unconfessed mortal sins, you will suffer in hell forever. And just remember, a mortal sin can be missing a mass, or really wanting that car your neighbor just bought… All eternity …

This concept of God is very primitive. How can it be reconciled with His infinite love and mercy?!

That is what I have difficulties with.

I’m not surprised! It is a distortion of Christianity.

And yes, I can agree with you on how man’s sins cause much suffering. But I don’t agree that those sins should cost us eternal

suffering. I can’t imagine that I am more compassionate than God. So it’s hard for me to believe if I couldn’t torture someone for eternity, that God would. He’s infinitely more loving than I am.
Exactly. God tortures no one. Those who are evil are tortured by their own pride, vanity, ambition, selfishness, greed, cruelty and callousness which alienate and isolate them from others.

And yes, I know you or someone else will rebut that it isn’t God that is sealing our fate, it is us (the sinner) that choose to go to hell. I can’t believe that either, because suffering eternal damnation is not something a human can possibly choose. In order to choose something we need to understand what we are choosing. No one can understand eternity and the amount of suffering that is in hell.

The damned don’t fall unwittingly into a trap set by God. They foresee very lucidly the consequences of their decision to exist solely for themselves. Hell is obviously not a state of sheer misery. Otherwise it would be lunacy to forsake the prospect of heaven. There is great pleasure and satisfaction in having total control of your own life without having to defer to a higher authority.

My second grade teacher (a nun) tried to explain to us 7 and 8 year olds about eternity. She told us that 1 million years was like a single grain of sand on the earth. And once every million years a bird would come and flick off 1 grain of sand. She said by the time the bird flicked off every grain of sand off the earth, that would be day 1 of eternity. Then the bird would start over. A million years is hard to grasp, even as an adult. I think you could even say 1 year and it would still seem like forever… so you get my point. How can a human possibly understand what they’re getting themselves into?

We already live in the eternal present! The past and the future always elude us… All we need to know is that we are incapable of grasping the infinite love of God or the infinite depths of evil but we can glimpse those extremes in what we witness in this world: the incredible courage of those who dedicate their lives to the afflicted and the diabolical atrocities of those who torture and massacre millions of men, women and children.

I know when I read back through my post, I might seem argumentative. But if you could hear my words, you would only hear desperation to understand… not an argument.

I deeply sympathise with your anguish. The dominating thought in our minds should be that Jesus suffered and died not to condemn us but to** liberate** us from evil. Remember the words of Saint Paul:

“For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Nothing except ourselves… If we follow Him we have nothing to fear. Heaven and hell begin in this world, not the next!

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Has anyone heard of the book 23 minutes in Hell? One of these days I’m going to red it.

I feel that eternal punishment does not make a whole lot of sense. I feel that we may not deseve an eternity of biss with God but neither do we deserve everlasting punishment. 'll admit it I “Sin” at times, I might not give money to a beggar, allow jelously to creep in, lust etc. but what about all those times i turn away from sinning does not that count for something. As someone who leans towards Agnosticism I openly choose not to look at porn because i want to feel free from sexual desires. That does not mean i have not in the past nor will i not do it in the future but that i realize how should behavior could effect me. The point is that we are always presented with moral dillemmas when making statements that everyone deserves hell it seems as if we are looking at the time we choose to sin as reasons for hell rather than acknowledging those times we avoid it.

 

[tonyrey]

I feel that eternal punishment does not make a whole lot of sense.

I agree. If a person chooses to pay the price for total freedom and independence that is a different matter.

I feel that we may not deserve an eternity of bliss with God but neither do we deserve everlasting punishment.

That is true. Heaven is a gift for those who choose to love others. Hell is self-inflicted by those choose to love themselves at the expense of others. Nemesis and karma are both based on belief in cosmic justice - that we all ultimately obtain precisely what we deserve…

The point is that we are always presented with moral dilemmas when making statements that everyone deserves hell it seems as if we are looking at the time we choose to sin as reasons for hell rather than acknowledging those times we avoid it.

Who has stated that **everyone **deserves hell?

 

[BigGofWi]

I agree. If a person chooses to pay the price for total freedom and independence that is a different matter.
That is true. Heaven is a gift for those who choose to love others. Hell is self-inflicted by those choose to love themselves at the expense of others. Nemesis and karma are both based on belief in cosmic justice - that we all ultimately obtain precisely what we deserve…
Who has stated that **everyone **deserves hell?

What about me? I WANT to love God but I CAN’T. I WANT there to be a heaven but I dont think there is one. If i am wrong about there not being an afterlife, and I WANT to be with God, what happens to me?

 

[MindOverMatter]

What about me? I WANT to love God but I CAN’T. I WANT there to be a heaven but I dont think there is one. If i am wrong about there not being an afterlife, and I WANT to be with God, what happens to me?

That depends on how honest a person you really are. Only God knows the true intentions of the human heart. But i like doing the guess work.

 

[itinerant1]

What about me? I WANT to love God but I CAN’T. I WANT there to be a heaven but I dont think there is one. If i am wrong about there not being an afterlife, and I WANT to be with God, what happens to me?

You would spend the rest of eternity in a Limbo where all you could do is post on CAF.

 

[liquidpele]

You would spend the rest of eternity in a Limbo where all you could do is post on CAF.

Maybe he’s already there? Hey BigGofWi, what’s it like in limbo? Is there Caribbean music?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I have always had problems wondering why any god would place a person into eternal damnation.

Simple: God loves us so much, He puts those who reject Him in a place where He is not. Likewise He gathers those who love Him in a place where He is. Would you rather spend your eternity in a place where He is or a place where He is not? Think about it.

 

[liquidpele]

Simple: God loves us so much, He puts those who reject Him in a place where He is not. Likewise He gathers those who love Him in a place where He is. Would you rather spend your eternity in a place where He is or a place where He is not? Think about it.

So wait. For the place where he is not, does he not love those people that get put there? What if your mother is there but you are in the place where God is, would you be happy with that scenario?

 

[lil_flower_luv]

So wait. For the place where he is not, does he not love those people that get put there? What if your mother is there but you are in the place where God is, would you be happy with that scenario?

God loves all of His children; not just the ones in Heaven.

I know the concept is hard to understand, but if you’re in Heaven and one of your family members is in Hell, you will be at such a state of happiness, it won’t matter to you. In Heaven, you are filled so completely with God’s grace that nothing bad can possibly be inside of you. No remorse, no regret, no sorrow, no sin.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

What about me? I WANT to love God but I CAN’T. I WANT there to be a heaven but I dont think there is one. If i am wrong about there not being an afterlife, and I WANT to be with God, what happens to me?

I think you might be like Bill Murray in the movie Groundhog Day.

 

[Sagefrakrobatik]

Simple: God loves us so much, He puts those who reject Him in a place where He is not. Likewise He gathers those who love Him in a place where He is. Would you rather spend your eternity in a place where He is or a place where He is not? Think about it.

I have a somewhat important question; do you place those who follow a diferent religion in the same category as thos who reject him?

 

[MikiBee]

God loves all of His children; not just the ones in Heaven.

I know the concept is hard to understand, but if you’re in Heaven and one of your family members is in Hell, you will be at such a state of happiness, it won’t matter to you. In Heaven, you are filled so completely with God’s grace that nothing bad can possibly be inside of you. No remorse, no regret, no sorrow, no sin.

Wow, yes, that concept is impossible for me to wrap my mind around. As any mother, I can’t imagine a life without my children in it. When my children are unhappy, so am I. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be in heaven blissfully happy while knowing (God forbid) my children are in hell suffering. Unfathomable. Not that I don’t believe that is how it will be, but my puny human mind can’t relate.

 

[itinerant1]

Wow, yes, that concept is impossible for me to wrap my mind around. As any mother, I can’t imagine a life without my children in it. When my children are unhappy, so am I. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be in heaven blissfully happy while knowing (God forbid) my children are in hell suffering. Unfathomable. Not that I don’t believe that is how it will be, but my puny human mind can’t relate.

I’ll throw in an idea here. At the last judgement, sometimes called the General Judgment to distinguish it from Particular Judgement, everything about one’s life will be made known to others. As Scripture says, there is nothing hidden that will not be made manifest. Thus we will know all about the decisions an individual made throughout his lifetime in rejecting God, as well as the actions of God’s mercy toward sinners. Perhaps a comparison can illustrate something of this matter. We may not feel grief for the hardened serial killer who has no remorse for his crimes and is given life in prison or capital punishment. We feel that his has merited his punishment. Justice has been rightly served. We would be upset, rather, if the killer was freed because his attorney successfully protested some error made in the legal process.

Ultimately, we judge ourselves and condemn ourselves. God’s judgement confirms what we ourselves have chosen, whether to love God or not. I think when we see how a soul that is lost has chosen that destiny and why they chose it, there will be no grief in Heaven about it. Now, in this life, we must grieve and pray for those in need of prayer so they won’t be lost. The tears and constant prayers of St. Monica saved her wayward son, who became one of the Church’s greatest theologians, St. Augustine.

 

[tonyrey]

What about me? I WANT to love God but I CAN’T. I WANT there to be a heaven but I don’t think there is one. If i am wrong about there not being an afterlife, and I WANT to be with God, what happens to me?

You go to heaven - provided your desire is backed up by love for your fellow human beings. You cannot love God if you don’t love your neighbour. The real test of what we believe is not what we profess but how we live. It is absurd to think anyone goes to hell for making a mistake. The fact that you admit you may be wrong shows you are open-minded and sincerely searching for the truth. If you are convinced of the reality of goodness, justice and love you are certainly heading in the right direction…

 

[tonyrey]

Wow, yes, that concept is impossible for me to wrap my mind around. As any mother, I can’t imagine a life without my children in it. When my children are unhappy, so am I. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be in heaven blissfully happy while knowing (God forbid) my children are in hell suffering. Unfathomable. Not that I don’t believe that is how it will be, but my puny human mind can’t relate.

In the very unlikely event that your children are in hell you will know that it is because they choose to reject God, live for themselves and live apart from you. So even though you are saddened by separation from them you know it is impossible for them to share your life with God and you accept the consequences of their decision. Like Him you continue to love them but you realise you must respect their freedom…

 

[lil_flower_luv]

I have a somewhat important question; do you place those who follow a diferent religion in the same category as thos who reject him?

No, of course not.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Wow, yes, that concept is impossible for me to wrap my mind around. As any mother, I can’t imagine a life without my children in it. When my children are unhappy, so am I. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be in heaven blissfully happy while knowing (God forbid) my children are in hell suffering. Unfathomable. Not that I don’t believe that is how it will be, but my puny human mind can’t relate.

I feel the same. So I just pray that all of my family and friends will make it to Heaven!