My Problems with Courtship

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I come from a family who probably have never heard of the word “courtship”. To be honest, I am not so sure about what is myself nor do I know how to explain it to my family to arrange something like it. Might I add I am also very detached from my own family due to many circumstances. So how does a guy llike me do this “courtship” thing?
 
I too am all ears…please someone share the practical aspect of courtship.
 
Well, don’t start off by talking about marriage too much… 😉

I too am fairly new to the idea of “courtship” as opposed to dating, but it seems fairly straighforward. Be a gentleman, (open doors, stand when she leaves the table, etc…), but also–no fooling around. It’s just that simple. Don’t touch what you ain’t got.

Perhaps a less “practical” thing is keeping in mind you’re looking for compatibility on many levels. There’s an end goal here–it’s not just killing time. Would she be a good wife and mother? Do you have any major differences? Can you stand to spend more than an hour together?

The alternative, dating, means all kinds of things. Movie buddies, drinking buddies, hookup “partners,” whatever. Generally speaking, you want to avoid everything “dating” is about. There’s no specific end-goal in mind.

Eh, those are just my thoughts. When I have a successful “courtship,” I’ll give out all my secrets. 😉
 
Depending on your generation it seems like terms have different meetings.

For the most part people don’t date, they hook up in college. There are some good articles at www.shethinks.org that college women want to bring back the date. Men don’t ask women out anymore, they just hang around your dorm room until they get lucky. The whole co-ed living arrangement in college has had a definite effect on things. No one dated.

I really don’t understand the idea of courtship, it sounds like “wooing” my parents instead of “wooing” me. Younger I had boys intentionally gain the trust of my parents to try to take advantage of me.

I understand that there needs to be an end goal, you date to learn about a person. You should do things that are participatory and encourages conversation. Ask a woman out for a cup of coffee or a visit to a local musuem, something that is public and uncompromising but very engaging.
 
Well, maybe this is one area that I have a little more insight into b/c of my conservative evangelical protestant background. Courtship was a hot topic where I grew up. I’ve read the books, attended the seminars, and to be honest after all of that experience I’ve never seen a successful courtship!

First of all, courtship isn’t so much about the activities it’s more about the context. Ideally, the relationship between a guy and a girl should begin in the context of spending time with each other’s family… ie, no one-on-one time initially. The families get to know the potential spouses while the potential spouses get to know each other. And that brings up the second important part of courtship- intention. While casually dating someone the only intention you may have in mind is a good time or fun company. On the other hand, courtship’s express intention is to decipher whether or not this individual is a potential future wife/husband.

Now there are different ways to progress through the courtship. Many times I supposed the couple does end up getting some time alone (thank goodness!). Often I think courtships are shorter than normal dating relationships b/c the intent is so clear, and once you are certain the person isn’t for you there’s no point in hanging around for a good time with his/her family if you know what I mean. If the person is a match things normally move to marriage pretty fast.

I have no problem with the idea of families getting to know their sons/daughters future spouses. In fact I think the more we know about our boyfriend/girlfriend’s family, the better we can understand why they are how they are and what THEY will be expecting out of their future family (roles, values, how they spend their money, etc). I also have no problem with being intentional when looking for a mate. Dating for dating’s sake is a waste of time after a while and let’s be honest, most of us are craving a deeper relationship that only marriage can bring.

What I do have a problem with is the method- logistially. Once upon a time in generations past people stayed put. Girls lived at home till they moved out to get married and most couples got married quite young (my grandparents were 15 and 17!). There was an assumption that women wouldn’t continue formal education outside of highschool. It was much easier for families to be involved in their single sons and daughters’ lives. But now, thank goodness, most of us do go to college. And now it isn’t uncommon for people to move away for college and then to move away for work. So that leaves us young adults in a difficult position to “court”. I mean, what am I supposed to do when Joe asks me out to coffee? “Sorry, Joe, but I believe in courting and so maybe we could fly home to the States so you can meet my folks first…” Um, no, not happening.

It was a nice idea, it worked in a different time and place but not here and now… unless we are expecting people to get married by age 18. So I always encourage parents when they are teaching their teen sons and daughters about relationships, to encourage group outings, to focus on respecting others and respecting yourself- especially when it comes to sexual purity, etc… but I tell them NOT to expect courting to work for the average person.

Courtship is just one method… there are many others and I think there are plenty of ways to find a spouse and it doesn’t make one more biblical or Christian than another. I just wish this one particular impractical method wasn’t shoved down the throats of so many young people!
 
Ah yes, finally something I can talk about from experience. First off let me just say, that courtship is serious stuff. Let me explain why.

There are different stages:
Dating:
When you first meet a girl you want to get to know her, find out what she’s about, what her beliefs are etc but NOT in exclusion to other women -This is what we call dating. ‘Dating’ is the phase where you look around, you may go out with one girl for coffee, and another for a movie another day. Unfortunately, our society has highjacked the term and turned it into the ‘we’re practically married and can do whatever we want stage’. But this wasn’t always the understanding. One used to make the distinction between ‘dating’ and ‘going steady’, but now it seems ‘dating’ means the latter. To be on the safe side, it would be best to avoid the term altogether, otherwise one might get slapped for leading another on!😉

Courtship:
Once a man (as in my example) finds that special someone who he would like to pursue, or rather that woman who he thinks he could marry, he moves onto the courtship stage. This is not where all the major issues get ironed out (they should have been weeded out in the dating stage) but rather one discerns God’s call. One must ask himself whether this is the woman God wants for him. Courtship, if it is to be done properly, is about prayer, discussion and a deeper level of bonding. One should emerge with a good friend regardless of the outcome.

Engagement:
The next stage comes when one has fulfilled the previous stages and is certain that they have been called to marry a specific person. This is not a ‘wishy-washy’ phase. A good rule of thumb is, if you wouldn’t marry this woman tomorrow then DO NOT PROPOSE!!!

The funny thing is that most people assume that they have been called to marriage even though they have not found a person to be married to, but does that make sense?

I hope this helps.
 
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sullivansoul:
Oh and by the way, courtship worked for me!🙂
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Well that’s good. 🙂 But I think we are using the same word and defining it quite differently! I think what you did sounds good, and it sounds logical. It’s not what I consider courtship.
 
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Steph700:
Courtship is just one method… there are many others and I think there are plenty of ways to find a spouse and it doesn’t make one more biblical or Christian than another. I just wish this one particular impractical method wasn’t shoved down the throats of so many young people!
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Agreeing w/ Steph700! Much of what’s written on the subject is from Protestant authors. Keep in mind, their view of the human person is not the same as ours (as Catholics). I read once about a 35 yr old woman who lived at home under her father’s ‘headship’. At 35, she agreed that her father would decide who she’d court, when they would hold hands, go out alone etc. If that worked for her-- great. Frankly, I DO NOT want the responsibility of deciding who my daughter will spend the rest of her life with! That’s up to her. I think the key is getting to know the other person in various settings (church, volunteer, school) before going out together. Once you start to develop feelings, it’s hard to see anything but the good. Knowing the family is helpful too, but not always possible. —KCT
 
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Tanais:
I come from a family who probably have never heard of the word “courtship”. To be honest, I am not so sure about what is myself nor do I know how to explain it to my family to arrange something like it. Might I add I am also very detached from my own family due to many circumstances. So how does a guy llike me do this “courtship” thing?
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I’d suggest the book “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” by Joshua Harris. If you don’t have parents who can act in this role, this book suggests finding a married couple at your church to act as the “accountability couple”.
 
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1ke:
I’d suggest the book “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” by Joshua Harris. If you don’t have parents who can act in this role, this book suggests finding a married couple at your church to act as the “accountability couple”.
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My I ask, 1ke, does Joshua Harris outline why courtship is better than dating? I just want to know about the efficiency, plausibility, and the overall superiority of one.
 
I must say Sullivan, your system seems the most moderate. To me it makes rather good sense so far and sort of eliminates certain logistical problems brought up by Steph. By the way, God Bless You for it having worked for you! Congrats!
 
Courtship: The pursuing of an intimate friendship to see if marriage would be desirable.

I love the Joshua Harris books: I Kissed Dating Goodbye and Boy Meets Girl----A catholic version—Christian Courtship in an Oversixed World(A Guide for Catholics) by T.G. Morrow is excellent too. ABC’s of Choosing a Good Husband/Wife by Steve Wood–great too.

I wish I had all this information when I was young and dating. My daughters will read all of the above!!!

God bless,
chris
 
Can anyone clearly state the general Dos and Donts of courtship?
Thanks
 
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Tanais:
My I ask, 1ke, does Joshua Harris outline why courtship is better than dating? I just want to know about the efficiency, plausibility, and the overall superiority of one.
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Simple - Courtship is romance God’s way!
 
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buffalo:
Simple - Courtship is romance God’s way!
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That comment makes me feel uncomfortable, I don’t think the Church has a particular stance on how men and women meet. Maybe because I’m anti-Courtship, as a woman the description makes me feel like a cow and the man and my parents are negotiating with me having little say on who I decide to entertain conversations with and that I’m incapable of finding a spouse unless my parents were involved. It goes against the belief the marriage is a free and willing act, when parents get too involved.
 
Check out the Breath of Fresh Air site, on Catholic Courtship. It will make you roll your eyes so hard people will assume you’re having a seizure.

Men and women can’t be friends (well then I’d be screwed)
Or the ideas for dates? If some guy told me we were doing most of those activities, he would get my stink face and then hear lots of whining and a request to drop me off at home.

Amongst the ideas are: Tour bakery, dairy, or radio/TV station.
Uhhhh a dairy? Because nothing says let’s get married like cow udders and milking machines, and me screaming for claritan and having red puffy eyes and stuffed nose from allergies… Gee honey I thought you being uncomfortable all afternoon was a perfect idea for a date!

Have a “bigger and better” night, where you start with something small and go door to door asking them to give you something that is “bigger and better” than what you have.
If my neighbors did this… I would tell them they’re high and call the cops

Price caskets at a funeral home.
???/!!! Now if that isn’t the MOST morbid idea for a date, I don’t know what is… Gee sweetie, I thought we’d go discover how much our mortality will set our kids back before inflation hits!

Attend an unusual convention of stamp collectors, coin collectors, home improvement experts, or Elvis Presley look-a-likes.
Alas I have had to do this kind of thing. I have dated avid golfers and engineers who find this kind of thing interesting. I find it my own version of hell. The only thing that could make me bored quicker was if he planned a date for us to sit in the waiting room of a doctors office.

Thanks, I’ll take dating.
 
There just seems to be alot of confusion about terminology.

For me dating = courtship or others dating = hooking up, base on your defintion of dating is the basis of accepting non-dating courtship. I’ve had my fair share of hook ups, and it isn’t dating.
 
A blurb from the site “Breath of Fresh Air.”

**“Heather, how would you like to go to a movie Saturday night?” (In case you were wondering… names in this article are coincidental - HPK)

Our daughter hesitated. She didn’t know the young man standing before her in the college student union, but even if she had, she wouldn’t have accepted his offer - at least not yet. His inquiry needed to be directed to her father. Heather muttered her resolve. “Well,” she said, “I would really prefer that you talked with my dad first.”

Then, without giving the fellow a chance to respond, Heather made a beeline for her dormitory. “I’m never going to hear from this guy again,” she thought. “In fact, I’m going to be the laughingstock of the campus.”

Heather has been a willing participant in our family decision to dispense with the dating game. Our choice grew partly out of personal experience: as teenagers, we had encountered some of the drawbacks and dangers of dating. When I (Anne) dated, my heart became emotionally tied to my ‘steady’, which resulted in wounds of rejection that lasted for years. We wanted something better for our children.

Courtship is one of the best ways we’ve found to achieve that goal. If a young man wants to date a young woman, he contacts her father to ask permission. During the first meeting or phone call, the father explains that the family believes in courtship, which means that the young man must be spiritually and financially prepared to marry the young woman if they fall in love - otherwise, he shouldn’t even bother to start a relationship (As for our sons, they know they must meet the same requirements before they can begin courting a young woman.). This means, in effect, that there will be not courtship or dating during the high school years, and perhaps not until after college graduation.**

I can’t help but be really bother by this, espcially from a Catholic point of view teaching pre-cana personally. It sounds like a negotiating a contract, not preparing for a Sacrament. That is why dating is crucial, just to first learn about a person over a cup of coffee or a pizza after a movie at least a few times before talking about marriage.
 
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