My problems with free will

[fakename]

So here are some of my problems with free will and if possible, I’m wondering if any of you good people can help me with this?

So basically, man’s nature implies a free will, but free will can be used for evil or good, so by nature man is evil and/or good. But nothing is by nature bad while the only thing good by nature is God. Secondly man can be contradictorily good and bad?

Where did I go wrong?

Second problem

God causes free will and free will causes actions so God causes actions but if the actions are bad then God causes bad actions and since he causes bad actions then he is responsible for bad actions. But God isn’t responsible for bad actions so this is obviously false. But why is it false? What alternative is there?

Again, I have no clue how to stop this conclusion?

 

[jfmarm81]

So here are some of my problems with free will and if possible, I’m wondering if any of you good people can help me with this?

So basically, man’s nature implies a free will, but free will can be used for evil or good, so by nature man is evil and/or good. But nothing is by nature bad while the only thing good by nature is God. Secondly man can be contradictorily good and bad?

Where did I go wrong?

Second problem

God causes free will and free will causes actions so God causes actions but if the actions are bad then God causes bad actions and since he causes bad actions then he is responsible for bad actions. But God isn’t responsible for bad actions so this is obviously false. But why is it false? What alternative is there?

Again, I have no clue how to stop this conclusion?

I’m a pretty simple person, but here is my take. I always felt that God since God created us in His image, He wanted us to love and serve him. But to not give us a choice would be, in a way, enslaving us. God wants us to choose Him, not tell us to love Him.
It is not God who causes bad actions, but Satan. God merely allows bad actions to occur in order to prove to the devil that good will prevail and that the devil can never win. I look at the Book of Job. God allowed the devil to cause the bad things to happen to Job in order to show that Job’s love for God would prevail.
In the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve could have lived a lavish lifestyle without death just by choosing God. The devil got to them and they chose poorly. God allowed this choice but properly punished them.
In life, we are all Adam in that we are given the choice every day to love God. We are all Job in that bad things happen to us, brought on by the actions of others or ourselves, but we must still choose God in the face of these evils…
Sorry for the ramble-I hope I made some sense…if anone has a different or better explanation, by all means, go for it…

 

[diggerdomer]

So here are some of my problems with free will and if possible, I’m wondering if any of you good people can help me with this?

So basically, man’s nature implies a free will, but free will can be used for evil or good, so by nature man is evil and/or good. But nothing is by nature bad while the only thing good by nature is God. Secondly man can be contradictorily good and bad?

Where did I go wrong?

Second problem

God causes free will and free will causes actions so God causes actions but if the actions are bad then God causes bad actions and since he causes bad actions then he is responsible for bad actions. But God isn’t responsible for bad actions so this is obviously false. But why is it false? What alternative is there?

Again, I have no clue how to stop this conclusion?

The Catholic understanding (from the Bible etc.) is that creation is good, and so, humans are good.

Humans also have free will, as given by God, so humans have the completely free choice to pursue good or not.

Humans exercising their God-given free will to choose evil is not the same as attributing evil to God. God did not choose nor desire evil.

God can, and does, however, allow evil actions. Why? A mystery beyond our comprehension…the problem of evil. As the Catechism teaches (309).

Despite the existence of evil and suffering, God offers faith and hope and love. And in the end of course, God’s will will be done.

 

[Chris_W]

So basically, man’s nature implies a free will, but free will can be used for evil or good, so by nature man is evil and/or good. But nothing is by nature bad while the only thing good by nature is God. Secondly man can be contradictorily good and bad?

Where did I go wrong?

It may be easier to understand if we don’t think of good and bad as distinct separate existing things. Bad, as you call it, does not exist independent of good. Evil is simply the absense of good. Just like darkness is simply the absense of light, or coldness is the absence of warmth. So God created everything from nothing, but God is not everything, if that makes sense. Anything that is not God, could potentially be without goodness (an action for example). So man was created good, but thru sin caused the goodness in man to diminish. Where man is not full of goodness, it allows evil (the lack of goodness) to potentially occur. Because evil can potentially occur, it requires free will to choose.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[Chris_W]

Second problem

God causes free will and free will causes actions so God causes actions but if the actions are bad then God causes bad actions and since he causes bad actions then he is responsible for bad actions. But God isn’t responsible for bad actions so this is obviously false. But why is it false? What alternative is there?

God causes free will… - Yep
free will causes actions… - I suppose, yes
so God causes actions… - that’s where the chain of logic may have a problem: If, for example a father gives his kid the keys to the car, and the kid wrecks the car, can we say the father wrecked the car, or even that he is responsible for the wrecked car? Of course not. All we can say is that the father enabled the kid to wreck the car. Why would a father do that? The answers could be endless, but in the case of God giving us the opportunity to ‘wreck the car’, so to speak, we know it is becasue He loves us and wants us to love Him. We could not love Him without free will.

Make sense?

 

[diggerdomer]

God causes free will… - Yep
free will causes actions… - I suppose, yes
so God causes actions… - that’s where the chain of logic may have a problem: If, for example a father gives his kid the keys to the car, and the kid wrecks the car, can we say the father wrecked the car, or even that he is responsible for the wrecked car? Of course not. All we can say is that the father enabled the kid to wreck the car. Why would a father do that? The answers could be endless, but in the case of God giving us the opportunity to ‘wreck the car’, so to speak, we know it is becasue He loves us and wants us to love Him. We could not love Him without free will.

Make sense?

The father wants his child to be an adult. That’s why he gives him/her the keys to the car. At some point, the child is an adult, in fact, and so primarily responsible for his/her actions.

Yes, the father is the one who chose to give the child the keys (along with the knowledge, training, etc.) necessary to drive the car. The father could have chosen differently (to be a chauffeur and drive/control his child)…but that’s not what the Father chose.

 

[feargalmac]

So here are some of my problems with free will and if possible, I’m wondering if any of you good people can help me with this?

So basically, man’s nature implies a free will, but free will can be used for evil or good, so by nature man is evil and/or good. But nothing is by nature bad while the only thing good by nature is God. Secondly man can be contradictorily good and bad?

Where did I go wrong?

Second problem

God causes free will and free will causes actions so God causes actions but if the actions are bad then God causes bad actions and since he causes bad actions then he is responsible for bad actions. But God isn’t responsible for bad actions so this is obviously false. But why is it false? What alternative is there?

Again, I have no clue how to stop this conclusion?

Here’s my :twocents: worth.

1. “nothing is by nature bad”. True, but good and evil are not things. Only man posseses the ability to distinguish between the two which brings me to your second problem.
2. “God causes free will”. God does not cause free will, rather He has gifted it to us, raising us up above the purely natural. How we use this gift is up to us.

 

[EmeraldWings]

well, yes our free will can be used to choose between good and evil, but what that really is, is choosing between God and not God…meaning, God is goodness itself, whereas evil is a lack of God,
so although we can choose evil, God is never the cause of it,

we are given a free will because without a free will we cannot choose to love, and then likewise without evil(being a lack of God), we have nothing to choose between,
our love can only be genuine if we have a free will, because without the ability to choose love, then the love is not genuine, and because God is love, we cannot truly have God unless we choose to…does that make sense?

well, i have to go, but i hope this helps,
i can explain it further if you want me to,

ok, take care.