My professor said that believing in religious doctrine and dogma or political constructs is in opposition to philosophy

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The way you’ve described it seems to me to be your professor suggesting that you start your philosophical journey with a blank slate. That is, with no preconceived notions (an extremely difficult undertaking). You should start out wondering:

‘I wonder where this is going to go.’

As opposed to:

‘I know where it’s going, I wonder how we’re going to get there’.

And this might sound a little radical, but why not talk to your professor about it, so he can clarify what he means.
I think what you suggest is to embrace objectivity and eschew subjectivity. Good advise in my opinion… yet I think that objectivity is one of those abstract constructs that the professor warns us against.

Philosophy is radically couched in abstract constructs. Establishing the hierarchy of the constructs - to seek the prime constructs, i.e. our highest principles - is the goal of everyman, especially the lovers-of-wisdom.

.
 
The professor’s comment seems like a self-contradiction. Does he really believe that dogmas are always something you shouldn’t believe? If so, that itself seems like a dogma, and is therefore something he should not believe.
👍
Yep. Self-refuting.

And how would the professor know whether or not to philosophically reject a given idea, (doctrines & dogmas are ideas,) unless he or she had given first them due consideration.

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”
Colossians 2:8

Beware
- to be ‘aware’. This is surely an invitation to know and understand the philosophies that are put before us. Testing all things…
 
And how would the professor know whether or not to philosophically reject a given idea, (doctrines & dogmas are ideas,) unless he or she had given first them due consideration.
I think that is the whole point, for heaven’s sake. Dan’s prof appears to be suggesting exactly that. Do not reject (or accept) anything without giving it due consideration.
 
I thought the professor was dismissing the basic concept of accepting any religious doctrine/dogma irrespective of what that dogma was.

…for heavens sake. 😃
 
…My professor said that believing in religious doctrine and dogma or political constructs is in opposition to philosophy whose ideal is to have freedom of thought.
Premise - The ideal of freedom of expression/thought is a doctrinal political construct. (Or a religious one arising from the idea of a God-like soul with free-will)

Premise - All political constructs/religious doctrines are in opposition to Philosophy[sup]TM[/sup]

Therefore - Freedom of expression is in opposition to philosophy. :eek:
 
The way you’ve described it seems to me to be your professor suggesting that you start your philosophical journey with a blank slate. That is, with no preconceived notions (an extremely difficult undertaking). You should start out wondering:

‘I wonder where this is going to go.’

As opposed to:

‘I know where it’s going, I wonder how we’re going to get there’.

And this might sound a little radical, but why not talk to your professor about it, so he can clarify what he means.
The problem is that no one starts with a blank slate. It is quite legitimate to propose, “This would be a legitimate end place” and then explore how well it withstands any and all critique.

In fact, that is precisely what a hypothesis in science does. It proposes a plausible explanation – I know, or strongly suspect, where this is going – and then assesses how well that explanation can hold up to experimental findings.

There is nothing wrong with "I know (in a tentative sense) where this is going and I will leave no stone unturned until I work out the details or find out that I was wrong. The important condition is the ability to recognize the truth, NOT openness to anything being true.

A blank slate is somewhat of a misleading notion. Far better to pick a position and committing to a full-bodied defense, keeping track all along the way of opposing, alternative or supporting arguments or viewpoints. It will soon become very obvious by your putting your own neck on the line whether your position is true or not by how well it and you stand up to critique.

A relatively minor problem is when people don’t have the humility to admit they were wrong and abandon what has shown itself to be a dead end, but an even bigger problem is that most give up prematurely for lack of tenacity or are too easily bullied out of a position by detraction or being made to feel stupid.

This timidity is a big problem with our current culture - there is an abject willingness to forego pursuit of the truth and nothing but the truth for the sake of fitting in, getting along or not upsetting others.

Fortunately, I have a thick and calloused skin – and don’t much care what you think – otherwise, I might be affected by your comment.
 
A blank slate is somewhat of a misleading notion. Far better to pick a position and committing to a full-bodied defense, keeping track all along the way of opposing, alternative or supporting arguments or viewpoints. It will soon become very obvious by your putting your own neck on the line whether your position is true or not by how well it and you stand up to critique.
Dan is starting his first year in philosophy. It’s going to be a little difficult for him, or for anyone in his position, picking a position and sticking to it when he is at the very start of the learning process. I doubt if his professor would be too impressed either, Dan trying to mount a defence of an aspect of philosophy on Day 1 when he hasn’t been given any information.

You don’t critique a book without reading it first. You don’t defend a position without knowing the alternatives. You don’t mount an argument unless you are reasonably conversant with the matter in hand. You don’t pick a position when you don’t know what the options are.

And lucky for me you have a thick skin. I’d hate to think I’d upset you by pointing out that you were wrong.
 
I took “A Comparative Study of World Religions” in school and it really bummed me out, for YEARS afterwards.

I thought the class would present the beliefs of the Major World Religions in great detail so I could appreciate and understand them. Boy, was I wrong! It messed up my mind. Devout Baptists dropped the class and even circulated a signed letter denouncing the class. I admired them then and now.

I continued but I didn’t learn about the world religions, I learned how none of them mean anything, how they all derived from superstition and ignorance, and how there’s no place in the modern world for the “oppression” of religion.

I don’t know what you’re in for with “Philosophy of the Renaissance”, but I expect the Enlightenment will be lauded :bowdown: for the many accomplishments achieved in that glorious time. Please stay well-grounded in your faith. I think this may be a test of sorts for you. Make sure you pass the real Teacher’s test. Lol…but not really. Sending prayers your way, don’t be intimidated like I was. I still regret keeping my mouth shut, after 30 years.
Thank you. 😛

I hope he’s not biased, but I won’t know until I see it through further.
 
The professor’s comment seems like a self-contradiction. Does he really believe that dogmas are always something you shouldn’t believe? If so, that itself seems like a dogma, and is therefore something he should not believe.

I think the purpose of having an open mind is to hear new ideas, and the purpose of listening to new ideas is to find the truth at some point. In other words, I think ideas are not ends in themselves – they are supposed to lead to the truth. If you lose that purpose, I don’t think there is any reason to hear idea after idea. What does it get you if you never come to a conclusion?
That was kind of what I was thinking!
 
How amazing that a professor who clearly knows so little about the Renaissance would be assigned to teach anything about it. That is, if you understood him correctly. But with all due respect, I’m not entirely sure you did.

As most Catholic philosophers would (and have) put it, that part of faith that is dependent on Revelation is not accessible to discovery through philosophy or God would not have had to reveal it. However, as Catholic philosophers also point out, there is nothing in Catholic doctrine that is truly contrary to well-reasoned philosophy.

For example, Revelation tells us that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Can we discern that without Revelation? No. But (as Aquinas, for instance, demonstrates) it is not unreasonable from the standpoint of philosophy to believe it.

So there is a distinction to be made, all right, but it’s not the distinction expressed in the first post.

I might mention, too, that there are a lot of philosophical systems. Some are well-reasoned and some are crack-brained.
No offense taken. It is entirely possible that I misunderstood him. I also wrote a question to his statement: “Why is philosophy incompatible with religious and habitual doctrine?”

I think the habitual part is an important part that I did not put in (I didn’t have my notes at the time). But because it’s saying two things; religious and habitual doctrine, it looks like my question would still hold …? Unless he means a logical and – doctrine that is both religious and habitual. Whatever habitual in that context may mean (What does it mean for doctrine to be habitual?)
 
Perhaps your professor is deliberately trying to be provocative and hoping someone will present a solid case against his dogmatic proclamation that the ideal of philosophy is to have freedom of thought. He is hoping that someone will point out to him that his claim is self-refuting because he is using a philosophical dogma to claim dogmas are anti-philosophical. That “the ideal of philosophy is freedom of thought” IS, indeed, a dogmatic proclamation on his part.
Perhaps so! I see what you’re saying. Today, he wrote on the board “freethought” and said “freedom of thought.” I Googled both and they come up with different results so I’m guessing they’re different. Maybe he meant religious doctrine and dogma is in opposition to freethought? Would that make a difference?

In any case, I’m not placing any sort of “judgement” on the professor, I’ll just be listening and see where it goes until I understand him better.
The error, besides the above blatant one, is that the ideal of philosophy is not “freedom of thought.” Freedom of thought is a habit of mind exhibited by good philosophers, but it isn’t an ideal of philosophy.

Someone already pointed out that philosophy is love of wisdom or truth – the ideal of philosophy is knowing the truth.

Why would anyone propose “freedom of thought” as an ideal? That simply implies that the ideal is to think whatever you want whenever you want to for whatever reason YOU want. That would be close to the definition of irrationality. Hardly an “ideal” of philosophy.

As a habit of mind, freedom to think means to be free from coercion, bias or prejudice to come to know the truth. It might be asked of the professor: What happens when we come to the truth on some question or other? Should we then be “free” to ignore the claim that truth has on us for the sake of freedom itself? To capriciously deny the truth by freely choosing to think something clearly false IS the truth just for the sake of exhibiting “freedom of thought?”

His “ideal” of freedom to think would seem to entail that if freedom trumps truth, then truth is valueless because freedom to think is the absolute “ideal” of philosophy. Certainly, that can’t be correct.

If knowing the truth is correctly identified as the “ideal” of philosophy – which I think most philosophers would agree is true – then dogma or doctrine functions more like a premise, an axiom in a proof or even a conclusion in an argument. If true, we are no more “free” to deny dogma than we are to deny self-evident premises, axioms of logic or conclusions in a valid and sound argument. In that sense, we are bound to truth in whatever form it comes BECAUSE it is the truth. We are not “free” to dissent just for the sake of freedom of thought.

That does not mean that philsophers cannot dispute the truth of dogma or doctrine because we are free to dispute claims that some proposition or axiom is self-evident, but we can only dispute those having good grounds for doing so, NOT just 'cause I am free to do so.

Philosophers are bound by the rules of logic and philosophical principles such as the law of non-contradiction, the law of identity or the principle of sufficient reason. We are not “free” to abandon them just for the sake of having freedom of thought as an ideal in philosophy. That would be no different than having absurd thoughtlessness as the ideal.

He could build no case for it being so since to do so involves having rules of logic and philosophical principles as starting points (or dogmas) which constrain our freedom to think philosophically in order to convince anyone of his claim that freedom IS the ideal.
I see what you’re saying!
 
I’d think that the idea is your from of thought leads you to certain conclusions. If those conclusions lead to a certain political or religious affiliation, then that’s that. So I doubt over could convincingly argue that either belief system is inherently as constraining as he claims. Now, whether or not most people are actually arriving at their convictions via reason…

And that’s ignoring what I suspect is a flawed premise (free thought= philosophy). Sounds like maybe that’s his philosophy, but I don’t think it’s at the root of philosophy in general.
That’s also what I was thinking. That “your form of thought leads you to certain conclusions” in the sense that accepting certain premises from religious dogma or doctrine means that your “set of possibilities” to consider is smaller – in premise or in conclusion.
 
*“The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid.”

“We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.”

“What people call impartiality may simply mean indifference, and what people call partiality may simply mean mental activity.” *

GK Chesterton
Nice!!!
 
The way you’ve described it seems to me to be your professor suggesting that you start your philosophical journey with a blank slate. That is, with no preconceived notions (an extremely difficult undertaking). You should start out wondering:

‘I wonder where this is going to go.’

As opposed to:

‘I know where it’s going, I wonder how we’re going to get there’.

And this might sound a little radical, but why not talk to your professor about it, so he can clarify what he means.
He did tell us that a problem of North American thinking is to contextualize things we don’t understand. “North American thinking; if you don’t understand it, put it in context!” or something similar. He said the problem with trying to think “Is Petrarch Catholic?” and questions like these can mislead us, as in the case of Petrarch who would say he is trying to find out the truth.
 
This timidity is a big problem with our current culture - there is an abject willingness to forego pursuit of the truth and nothing but the truth for the sake of fitting in, getting along or not upsetting others.
Isn’t that the truth!
 
Dan is starting his first year in philosophy. It’s going to be a little difficult for him, or for anyone in his position, picking a position and sticking to it when he is at the very start of the learning process.
And Dan’s professor and you, apparently, shouldn’t assume first year philosophy students were born yesterday and have not given crucial philosophical issues the slightest attention at all prior to entering those hallowed halls.

I prefer my first philosophy professor’s notion that we were all born philosophers with a gaping appetite to understand truth.
I doubt if his professor would be too impressed either, Dan trying to mount a defence of an aspect of philosophy on Day 1 when he hasn’t been given any information.
What were all the philosophical dogmas handed out on Day 1?

Philosophy is a set of methods, not information. The “information” has been accruing since birth. The question is what to do with the information to make sense of it. No where does “freedom” enter into the formula except under the presumption that constraints to thinking have been severely hampering thought up until Day 1 of philosophy class. Dogmas or doctrines are NOT constraints on thinking.
You don’t critique a book without reading it first. You don’t defend a position without knowing the alternatives. You don’t mount an argument unless you are reasonably conversant with the matter in hand. You don’t pick a position when you don’t know what the options are.

And lucky for me you have a thick skin. I’d hate to think I’d upset you by pointing out that you were wrong.
And lucky for me I have the good fortune of discussing this matter with someone so concerned about my self-esteem :tiphat:.

Simply reading a book does not give you the tools by which to critique a book. A set of dogmas could be considered a “book” of sorts.

So, again, your defense is shallow because dogmas or doctrines in themselves do not “oppose” philosophy. Philosophy can provide the tools to make sense of why those dogmas or doctrines function as dogmas or doctrines. There is no essential conflict between dogmas and philosophy just as there is no essential conflict between the words an author sets down in a book as his or her definitive statement or claim to represent the “truth” as they see it and any critique that may result from someone reading the book.

Dogmas are simply statements of definitive truth by some party or other. In a sense, they are meant to be challenged because of what they purport to be. They are intended to be taken seriously, unlike empty or callow expressions of doubt or skepticism.

A side note: This, by the way, is why I have no patience for supposed atheists. They don’t even try to carve out their own philosophical position or express it as a positive statement but, rather, take their pots shots at what they oppose. An atheist would have much more credibility if s/he stood for something like metaphysical naturalism or eliminative materialism in a positive sense and tried to defend that defined position against critique.

I would suppose this is why you find the “blank slate” idea appealing because it justifies holding a non-position and retreating to it when the going gets tough.

But enough about me.

I noticed that you haven’t expressed an opinion about the professor’s self-refuting and dogmatic claim that religious or political dogmas or doctrines are in opposition to the “freedom of thought” ideal of philosophy.

Dogmas or doctrines do not restrict anyone’s capacity to think – in fact, they make excellent fodder FOR thinking. They would only pose a problem for someone whose thinking is impotent and who cannot, therefore, address the truth content of any dogma meaningfully or teach impressionable minds how to assess the truth claims on their own merit – neither of which should pose a problem for a professor of philosophy, one would suppose.
 
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