My quest for FAITH...

[AnAtheist]

…a deist, a pantheist, or a panentheist?
Or do you feel, that none of the above describes you?

My point is, that “catholic” (as a set of beliefs not as a membership to a church) is very specific about god’s nature and how to worship him. You seem to be more “flexible”. Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that, “catholic” is just not a proper attribute of your faith, if I understand you correctly (which I might not).

 

[dredgtone]

AnAtheist:

…a deist, a pantheist, or a panentheist?
Or do you feel, that none of the above describes you?

My point is, that “catholic” (as a set of beliefs not as a membership to a church) is very specific about god’s nature and how to worship him. You seem to be more “flexible”. Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with that, “catholic” is just not a proper attribute of your faith, if I understand you correctly (which I might not).

Yeah catholicism might be a bit more than you can chew. But hey, nobody is telling ya what to do. Wiccanism is a pretty easy to swallow religion, or you could just say screw it, God exist and leave it at that.

 

[ktm]

AnAtheist:

I strongly disagree with that statement. I personally know some examples, ~60% of all Japanese are members of two religions (Buddhism and Shintoism).

I would say rather that such a person is a member of neither, but instead some compromise between the two.

To what extent are these religions? I was under the impression that some forms of Buddhism are more like philosophies. And I know basically nothing about Shintoism.

 

[chemcatholic]

rmikulas:

Prayer brings me to another point. Wiccans do prayer in the way of spells and meditation it seems, other religons have there own way. I do pray, but I see traits in Wiccans that I don’t see in alot of catholics anymore. Like praying for a winning lottery ticket or to get that job you applied for. That to me is just selfish, where as most wiccans I know meditate and say so called “spells” to help others. Don’t get me wrong, I know not all catholics are like this. i myself pray for the health and well-being of those around me. I have heard people say, I prayed I can loose weight on this diet or that their stocks will go up and such. Where as wiccans I know try not to stray to the point of asking for money, physical items, or to change “free will”.

That’s pretty judgemental on your part. Do you know why that person wants a new job? Perhaps so they can afford to send their kids to a good school. Do you know why that person wants to lose weight? Perhaps their doctor has told they need to lose weight for serious health reasons, or perhaps they have serious self-esteem issues and don’t know to ask for help with their self-esteem. Do you know why that person is praying to win the lottery? Perhaps so they can donate it to a charity they’ve been involved with for the past decade.

I’m not trying to say that people never make selfish prayers. But don’t be so quick to judge others and tell them how they are supposed to do things. Even if they pray for something for the wrong reason (eg winning the lottery for personal gain), God can grant their request and then lead them to do good with it (eg giving the money to a charity instead of buying a new house).

Besides, I was told once that the Catholic Church needs rich members - how else are we going to fund all of the good we want to do?

Peace

 

[AnAtheist]

ktm:

I would say rather that such a person is a member of neither, but instead some compromise between the two.

To what extent are these religions? I was under the impression that some forms of Buddhism are more like philosophies. And I know basically nothing about Shintoism.

Some consider buddhism to be a religion, some others don’t. Shintoism is a nature religion, which spots a spirit in every natural object (trees, stones, …). As far as I know, they believe that when you die, your soul turns into a kami (i.e. a spirit) that moves into something else.

If someone believes in certain aspects of more than one religion, does he follow them all, or does he make up a new one? Guess, that’s a somewhat semantic issue. I just wouldn’t rule out the possibilty to follow more than one religion.
Again, that doesn’t work, if one of those religions is christianity (or Catholism in particular) from my perspective. I suppose from yours as well.

 

[rmikulas]

AnAtheist:

If someone believes in certain aspects of more than one religion, does he follow them all, or does he make up a new one?

Indeed! Very well put. This is one thing i’m a bit lost on and the point I was trying to make, in alot less words. What is one to really do? This is why i feel that I have many questions to be answered which is why I am on my “quest”.

AnAtheist:

My point is, that “catholic” (as a set of beliefs not as a membership to a church) is very specific about god’s nature and how to worship him. You seem to be more “flexible”.

This is very true, I am a bit “flexable” on certain aspects of the catholic faith. But, 99% of the catholics I know are “flexable” from time to time as I am every so often (now). My previous church “Our Lady Of Grace”, was one I saought guidence in many times. When I became “flexable” one day and really started to question things, I went on over their to talk to a priest, a nun, anyone who could help me out. There was a “Teen Catholic Group” there who try to help others. When I stated how I felt, they believed I was “leaving the faith” (as most adult would say as well) and sent me to speak with a priest. We spoke about many things but ultimately, the thing I heard the loudest was this;

“It is OK to question your faith, people do it from time to time. Consider it a test. A test to make the faith stronger in you. All GODs children question their faith at some point, all your brother and sisters question their faith at some point. And it’s those questions that always brings us back. Because we do not have the answers, only a feeling. That feeling is Christ.”

What he said to me has stuck with me for quite some time now. Now with that being said, a priest says it’s ok to question your faith, i’ve heard this from more than 1 priest as well. But the Catholics themselves say it’s not ok to question your faith. You all make it seem like, you MUST be 100% true and sure of yourself. So are us Catholics wrong? Are the priests & churches wrong? Will you be so arogant to say that YOU know better than a priest?
See, these are questions I have. This is why I am putting my faith to the test again. Yes they are hard questions that if you dug deep enough, maybe you won’t like the answer, maybe I won’t either. So what are your thoughts on it?

 

[AnAtheist]

rmikulas:

…]a priest says it’s ok to question your faith, i’ve heard this from more than 1 priest as well. But the Catholics themselves say it’s not ok to question your faith. You all make it seem like, you MUST be 100% true and sure of yourself. So are us Catholics wrong? Are the priests & churches wrong? Will you be so arogant to say that YOU know better than a priest?
See, these are questions I have. This is why I am putting my faith to the test again. Yes they are hard questions that if you dug deep enough, maybe you won’t like the answer, maybe I won’t either. So what are your thoughts on it?

Phew, as I do not believe in gods, I am probably the last person you should ask. But anyway, I try to imagine for a second, that there is some kind of supernatural being. It seems obvious to me that the nature of such a being is way beyond human comprehension. If such a being is incomprehensible, any attempt to understand or explain it will fail (at least partially). Ergo any religion is to some extend wrong, since religion makes that attempt.

So if you pick from various religions, what you feel is right, is not that much different from choosing one particular religion, as all of them don’t get it 100% right anyway. This is of course on the brink of agnosticism and very much against the teaching of almost any religion.

Putting one’s beliefs, theories, philosphies, ideologies,etc to a test is, what drives development. Science works that way. Any theory is tested, any proof is questioned, experiments are repeated to confirm or to debunk theories.

I don’t remember the exact citation and who it was who said this (Swedenborg ?), but I regard it wise:
“Good people can do good deeds with or without religion, bad people can do bad deeds with or without religion, but it takes religion to have a good man doing bad deeds.”

 

[CARose]

rmikulas:

Prayer brings me to another point. Wiccans do prayer in the way of spells and meditation it seems, other religons have there own way. I do pray, but I see traits in Wiccans that I don’t see in alot of catholics anymore. Like praying for a winning lottery ticket or to get that job you applied for. That to me is just selfish, where as most wiccans I know meditate and say so called “spells” to help others. Don’t get me wrong, I know not all catholics are like this. i myself pray for the health and well-being of those around me. I have heard people say, I prayed I can loose weight on this diet or that their stocks will go up and such. Where as wiccans I know try not to stray to the point of asking for money, physical items, or to change “free will”.

Please be careful with regards to Wicca. I fear you are opening a can of worms far bigger than you can even imagine!

The Church and the Bible are quite clear on this point and you put your soul in grave danger when you explore this Earth Cult.

I appreciate your awareness that many people have a poorly formed appreciation for prayer and the fullness of who Christ has called us to be. We are not meant to spend our time striving for earthly gains of power, money and glory and prayers towards that end are misguided if there is not an ultimate desire to bring all Glory and Honor to God.

I was also saddened by your quote a bit further down this thread that you go into Church preferably alone, for yourself. At our baptism we were brought into the family of Christ. Being Christian is to be part of a community, even though it often feels disjointed in our humble human condition. The Mass is meant to be our primary mode of worship, for it is here that Christ is brought to us through the ages, in the substantial form of Body and Blood. This miracle brings through time to us His sacrifice on Calvary. We are called to join him in his sacrifice and make available to our fellow Christians the Charisms which we received at baptism.

When we isolate ourselves (outside a specific prayerful retreat or religious community - this is completely different), we prevent the fullness of the Body of Christ from being animated and used for his purposes. We fail to get the benefit of the charisms of others. And in our current culture especially, we fail to grow in our knowledge of Christ by submitting to the Authority of the Church.

I pray that you are willing to be open to the desires of the Holy Spirit for your life and cooperate as fully as you are possible with the Graces you have been given. Please consider any sins you have committed and see if after confessing them if you don’t have a clearer view of the Love God is always extending to you through the one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

God Bless,

CARose

 

[CARose]

rmikulas:

“It is OK to question your faith, people do it from time to time. Consider it a test. A test to make the faith stronger in you. All GODs children question their faith at some point, all your brother and sisters question their faith at some point. And it’s those questions that always brings us back. Because we do not have the answers, only a feeling. That feeling is Christ.” …

"… a priest says it’s ok to question your faith, i’ve heard this from more than 1 priest as well. But the Catholics themselves say it’s not ok to question your faith. You all make it seem like, you MUST be 100% true and sure of yourself. So are us Catholics wrong? Are the priests & churches wrong? Will you be so arogant to say that YOU know better than a priest?
…

Ah, good questions. I went on a long journey of faith and ultimately returned Home to Rome, with my Faith far stronger than it ever was before my journey, and I THANK GOD that I didn’t perish in sin, for I was truly lost for a while there!

Did I learn anything during the journey away and then during the journey back home? I hope so, and I feel that I have only for the first time come to know the Catholic Church. If I had known my faith before, I can’t see how I could have left. What I was doing on the way from the Church was a different process than what I did on the way back.

When I was seeking a way out of the Church, I wasn’t seeking Truth in it’s fullest, simply, could I live with the compromises I’d have to make to get what I wanted (freedom from rules, ability to be with who I wanted to be with, ability to do what I wanted, when I wanted, etc …) For me, I wanted to escape Authority, any and all.

When I found myself returning to the Church, I wanted to know the Truth, and I was finally willing to take it all, even if it meant giving up things I wanted. The more I participated in confession and being open to learning the fullness of God’s message and why the Church taught certain things, the more stuff kept coming my way to open my mind and heart to Christ.

Question, question, question. But do so with a willingness to take the fullness of the Truth Christ desires for you. Try accepting a difficult Church teaching as true even though you can’t for the life of yourself image why it would be true. Pray on it, confess having not previously believed it and then pray some more. See if you aren’t provided the change of heart to know and believe fully in this teaching shortly after. God’s grace works in amazing ways. And if you don’t know, don’t be afraid to seek the answer from the teachings of the Church.

God Bless,

CARose

 

[CARose]

rmikulas:

… But before some of you … knock down a religon like Wicca or any other religon, please go to the library, talk to your priest or whatever to get real knowledge…

Ok, I found it, per your request - (it took long enough, I’ve lost a lot of what I had written up, but I’ll do it again, in the hope it helps you)

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states in Paragraph 2115 Divination and magic - God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints, Still a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for wahtever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

Paragraph 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring health - are gravely contrary to th virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

This all falls under the 10 Commandments. You may also want to look up Part Three, Chapter One Paragraphs 2083 - 2089, 2095 - 2109 and 2110-2114.

This leads into Paragraph 2119 “Tempting God”

After a quick read of the text, I hope that my earlier suggestion that you select a difficult teaching of the Church to accept, confess it, pray and see what happens doesn’t fall under the sin of Tempting God. I didn’t suggest it intending a test of God so much as an opportunity for you to learn about His Love by making yourself open to the workings of His grace. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Again, Go with God,

CARose