My question is I am a Christian what do I say to Muslims who say God can't become a man/human ?

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My question is I am a Christian what do I say to Muslims who say God can’t become a man/human and or he would not because it would contradict His divine attributes they say God would not do things such as forgetting sleeping repenting growing or eating since a Spirit does not need to do these things God does not need to sleep eat or drink therefor they say what makes you Christians think God the Creator can become a man or become his own Creation I tell them that God can do all things therefor God can become man but is there a better answer I can give ?

Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.

missionislam.com/comprel/godman.htm
 
With God, ALL things are possible. There IS nothing God cannot do.
 
missouricitizen said:
My question is I am a Christian what do I say to Muslims who say God can’t become a man/human and or he would not because it would contradict His divine attributes they say God would not do things such as forgetting sleeping repenting growing or eating since a Spirit does not need to do these things God does not need to sleep eat or drink therefor they say what makes you Christians think God the Creator can become a man or become his own Creation I tell them that God can do all things therefor God can become man but is there a better answer I can give ?

Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.

missionislam.com/comprel/godman.htm
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Many people will come with new new ideologies and faiths when time passes. But we should be firm in our faith, which is revealed to us by God.

Everything is possible to God and Nothing is impossible to him. If they tells that God cannot become a human being , just reply to them that our God is omnipotent God and nothing is impossible to him.
 
missouricitizen said:
My question is I am a Christian what do I say to Muslims who say God can’t become a man/human and or he would not because it would contradict His divine attributes they say God would not do things such as forgetting sleeping repenting growing or eating since a Spirit does not need to do these things God does not need to sleep eat or drink therefor they say what makes you Christians think God the Creator can become a man or become his own Creation I tell them that God can do all things therefor God can become man but is there a better answer I can give ?

Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.

missionislam.com/comprel/godman.htm
Click to expand...
There are simple answers: a Spirit cannot eat but the Body of Christ, Which is not a a Spirit can eat.
Absurdities are for men. God overtakes all absurdities like a round square.
Look: there are absurdities on Earth, why cannot be in God? A famous physicist said that someone who said that understands quantum phisics is a liar. Ca you belive that one photo can pass through 2 holes at the same time?
And it is Physics!
and a Black hole?
 
I suppose I’d begin by asking, “What authority tells you its a good idea to use the words ‘God Can’t’ together in a sentence?” Nothing is impossible to God.
 
This is like asking “how can we have a soul AND a body” If we have souls they can’t be bound to flesh because they are immaterial. So, since we know we have a body, then there can be no soul. But we know that this is wrong. Our bodies and our mind, will, and reason our bound together. That is the body and soul. In the same way, Christ was completely spirit but came down and became incarnate in a human body. This created the same thing. There was a human will and a will of God. In us, there are bodily wants and spiritual wants. So, if you believe in the soul and the spirit, it is easy to believe that Christ could come down and become man.
 
Ahimsa said:
The best reply is to love your Muslim neighbor as yourself.
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…and? It doesn’t really answer the question. The question is “what do I say to Muslims who say God can’t become a man/human.”
 
CompSciGuy said:
…and? It doesn’t really answer the question. The question is “what do I say to Muslims who say God can’t become a man/human.”
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There is no need to take the bait unless you are the one fishing for the argument. At what point did the Muslim say that God can’t become human? Just out of the blue? Somehow I doubt it. It must have been in the context of a discussion that had already been started. I work with Muslims, we respect each other’s beliefs; it was even a Muslim, when I recently started work with a new employer, that told me of the availability of a prayer/meditation room on the premises for praying the LOTH. We occasionally take walks together at lunch and we discuss how faith in God has enriched our lives. We do not discuss dogma or doctrine, though we compare sometimes how we pray, out of natural curiosity, but we show great deference to each other by respecting the other’s prayers, and neither makes any attempt to proselytize the other. IMHO that’s what religious “dialogue” is about; concentrate on what we share, without proselytizing. You’d be surprised how much our faith walks have in common, apart from doctrine.

Oddly enough I live and work in Quebec. I have had more respect shown for my faith by Muslims than by native Quebecers who are nominal “Catholics” or have a Catholic heritage.

IMHO the best thank you I can give for that respect, is to respect in turn.
 
missouricitizen said:
My question is I am a Christian what do I say to Muslims who say God can’t become a man/human and or he would not because it would contradict His divine attributes they say God would not do things such as forgetting sleeping repenting growing or eating since a Spirit does not need to do these things God does not need to sleep eat or drink therefor they say what makes you Christians think God the Creator can become a man or become his own Creation I tell them that God can do all things therefor God can become man but is there a better answer I can give ?
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Someone has already mentioned that as we are all both body and spirit (soul), it doesn’t make sense to say that a spiritual being cannot do those things.

But one of the things you mention is different from the rest: “repent.”

First, there is nothing inherent in the nature of a spirit that prevents it from repenting. The reason God does not repent* is because He is perfect. The reason Angels do not repent (including of course fallen angels) is, as I understand it, because they are outside time, so change does not happen. Any being capable of sin, who is subject to time, can repent.

*I mean, repent in the sense of rejecting a sinful action one has performed, realizing it was wrong. There are places in the Bible where God is said to “repent” but not in that sense.
missouricitizen said:
Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.
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Well, if Christian doctrine was that all of the Godhead was present in Jesus the man, it is true that that would be impossible. But that isn’t what Christianity teaches. The nature of the Trinity is complicated, and I think (from the little I know of Islam) a Muslim would agree that we cannot expect to completely understand God, as He is so much greater than we are. But while God is all-powerful, there is no inherent contridiction in His choosing not to exercise all of his power at a particular time and place. He can choose to “empty Himself, taking the form of a servant” (Php 2:7) without making Himself less than God in His completeness. My Ignatius Study Bible has the following commentary for this verse: “The idea is, not that Christ divested himself of divinity when he united himself with humanity, but that he restricted the rightful exercise of certain divine abilities during his earthly life and accepted certain limitations of the human condition.” It also has this quote from St. Gregory of Nyssa, “Christ emptied himself by compressing the glory of his Godhead within our smallness. What he always was remained perfect and incomprehensible, but what he assumed was in proportion to the measure of our nature.” (Against Apollinarius)

I don’t know if this helps, but I hope so.

–Jen
 
OraLabora said:
There is no need to take the bait unless you are the one fishing for the argument. At what point did the Muslim say that God can’t become human? Just out of the blue? Somehow I doubt it. It must have been in the context of a discussion that had already been started. I work with Muslims, we respect each other’s beliefs; it was even a Muslim, when I recently started work with a new employer, that told me of the availability of a prayer/meditation room on the premises for praying the LOTH. We occasionally take walks together at lunch and we discuss how faith in God has enriched our lives. We do not discuss dogma or doctrine, though we compare sometimes how we pray, out of natural curiosity, but we show great deference to each other by respecting the other’s prayers, and neither makes any attempt to proselytize the other. IMHO that’s what religious “dialogue” is about; concentrate on what we share, without proselytizing. You’d be surprised how much our faith walks have in common, apart from doctrine.

Oddly enough I live and work in Quebec. I have had more respect shown for my faith by Muslims than by native Quebecers who are nominal “Catholics” or have a Catholic heritage.

IMHO the best thank you I can give for that respect, is to respect in turn.
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It seems to me that you are saying nobody can ever discuss their beliefs with someone of another faith. That, in order to respect another’s beliefs, we should never attempt to find out what those beliefs actually are, nor should we allow them to discover ours. In effect, that the purpose of religious “dialogue” is to avoid talking about the most important parts of our faith. It may be that, in your situation and with your gifts, you are serving God best by acting this way. We do need people who can form bridges with those of other faiths based on their common ground. That doesn’t mean that would be best for everyone!

What bait was there in the OP? A Muslim stated a belief of Islam which is contradictory to the beliefs of Christianity. That does not mean that anyone was proselytizing. And even if someone was, it is contrary to the teachings of Christianity to view this as inherently wrong. Certainly, there are times and places where it is inappropriate to have discussions of religious beliefs, but it does not follow that all discussions of religious beliefs are bad. It’s not necessarily true even that all discussions of religious beliefs are arguments.

The Trinity is inherently difficult to understand, and for sure nobody on earth ever understands it fully. So, it would be very easy for a non-Christian to misunderstand what we believe about God. Only through discussion can this be alleviated.

Doctrine is important. It is an important truth, which we are called to spread to the world, that Jesus Christ died for our sins. Part of that includes explaining (as best we can) how it is possible that God could become man. It doesn’t mean we have to get into arguments about it, but we need to be prepared at least to explain what we believe.

–Jen
 
revert_jen said:
It seems to me that you are saying nobody can ever discuss their beliefs with someone of another faith. That, in order to respect another’s beliefs, we should never attempt to find out what those beliefs actually are, nor should we allow them to discover ours. In effect, that the purpose of religious “dialogue” is to avoid talking about the most important parts of our faith. It may be that, in your situation and with your gifts, you are serving God best by acting this way. We do need people who can form bridges with those of other faiths based on their common ground. That doesn’t mean that would be best for everyone!

What bait was there in the OP? A Muslim stated a belief of Islam which is contradictory to the beliefs of Christianity. That does not mean that anyone was proselytizing. And even if someone was, it is contrary to the teachings of Christianity to view this as inherently wrong. Certainly, there are times and places where it is inappropriate to have discussions of religious beliefs, but it does not follow that all discussions of religious beliefs are bad. It’s not necessarily true even that all discussions of religious beliefs are arguments.

The Trinity is inherently difficult to understand, and for sure nobody on earth ever understands it fully. So, it would be very easy for a non-Christian to misunderstand what we believe about God. Only through discussion can this be alleviated.

Doctrine is important. It is an important truth, which we are called to spread to the world, that Jesus Christ died for our sins. Part of that includes explaining (as best we can) how it is possible that God could become man. It doesn’t mean we have to get into arguments about it, but we need to be prepared at least to explain what we believe.

–Jen
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Not everyone is well-equipped to discuss doctrine. I also belong to a tradition that tends to not directly evangelize but does so by living a life of example (Benedictines).

At the World Oblate’s conference in Rome in 2009, the theme of which was Inter-Religious Dialogue, it was noted by the speaker from the Pontifical Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue that this dialogue occurs at many levels; at the doctrinal level, mostly by clergy or theologians with the appropriate formation. At the lay level, it was more the “dialogue of life”, sharing daily life together, getting along with each other, respecting each other and working together to build a better society.

Getting in over our heads can lead things to spinning out of control and becoming adversarial. That isn’t particularly helpful.

I have no problems with answering questions about my faith, but not in an in-your-face or adversarial manner. People who have been Muslims (or whatever) all their lives have their faith so ingrained in their culture, they aren’t likely to be moved from it by anything I can say anyway. And if someone is in my face against my faith, I would try to disarm the person with kindness, and changing subjects, rather than engaging in an argument. Why take the bait? It can only lead to animosity. It takes two to fight.
 
In order to proclaim His love for humanity, He became one of us to do for us what we could not do for ourselves The Love of the Father became Incarnate in Jesus of Nazareth.
 
OraLabora said:
There is no need to take the bait unless you are the one fishing for the argument. At what point did the Muslim say that God can’t become human? Just out of the blue? Somehow I doubt it. It must have been in the context of a discussion that had already been started. I work with Muslims, we respect each other’s beliefs; it was even a Muslim, when I recently started work with a new employer, that told me of the availability of a prayer/meditation room on the premises for praying the LOTH. We occasionally take walks together at lunch and we discuss how faith in God has enriched our lives. We do not discuss dogma or doctrine, though we compare sometimes how we pray, out of natural curiosity, but we show great deference to each other by respecting the other’s prayers, and neither makes any attempt to proselytize the other. IMHO that’s what religious “dialogue” is about; concentrate on what we share, without proselytizing. You’d be surprised how much our faith walks have in common, apart from doctrine.

Oddly enough I live and work in Quebec. I have had more respect shown for my faith by Muslims than by native Quebecers who are nominal “Catholics” or have a Catholic heritage.

IMHO the best thank you I can give for that respect, is to respect in turn.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t the gospel call us to be witnesses to the truth? And there is only one truth, isn’t there? I am not saying that we must disrespect their religion or force Catholicism down their throats, but I think reasonable, charitable debate is a healthy thing. It will help to plant seeds. There are many Muslims where I live who like to talk to Christians and grapple with things like the divinity of Christ.

I cannot take a “what works for you works for you” approach with religion. Neither did St. Paul or the apostles take this approach with the pagans. I believe what the Church says, that Jesus is the true way to eternal life and that I must be a good witness of that to others. If I do not actively share/proclaim that with others than I cannot really take my own faith seriously. Faith becomes sort of an arbitrary thing, where you do whatever “feels” right instead of living out God’s will.
 
Tell me what need is there for God to become Human. Cutting the middlemen out(prophets/messengers) LOL at capitalism. Anyways. Please enlighten me because I am muslim. Tell me what need is there for God to become human. What purpose would that serve. And also what need at that point would God have for prophets and angels?
 
LUV4ALL said:
Please enlighten me because I am muslim. Tell me what need is there for God to become human. What purpose would that serve.
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In your Quran Allah spoke with Moses through “The Fire” (Quran 20:10-13), so why you want to restrict God from speaking through a “Sinless Human Body” which is much greater than the fire !!!
 
It is the most incredible need for mankind that God come to us as man.

God said, “I Am Who Am”, and it is through Jesus Christ that the universe was made. Jesus as Person in God was Spirit until He became Man, --for this many times He referred to Himself as the Son of Man, – at the Incarnation…The Word Made Flesh through Mary.

The ancient Jewish temple sacrificed both lambs and goats as atonement for sin. But there is nothing mankind can do to make up for sin, to be forgiven for sin. The lowest God can bring Himself down to is as Man.

Jesus was born into this world in poverty, in a cave, and the first to pay homage to Him were the lowly shepherds. He lived a hidden life for 30 years, and then His ministry began at His baptism by John the Baptist, who also had many followers. When Jesus was being baptized, a voice spoke from heaven, ‘This is my Beloved Son, for Whom I am well pleased’, and a dove appeared over Christ representing the Holy Spirit…this theophany revealing the one God we believe in, but the God also of relationship.

God calling Jesus His Son also introduced a new perspective about the Divinity of God and that is Family. Jesus as Son of God said He was the face of God, that He prayed to Him, calling Him Abba, the affectionate form of ‘father’.

Christ called Himself ‘Truth’ before Pontius Pilate. Historical and archaeological evidence backs up the events of Scripture and the life of Christ Who had many witnesses.

Christ died on the cross as atonement for sin. There was the good and bad thieves on each side of Him, one believed in Him, and Christ promised he would be with Him in paradise that day.

Christ rose from the dead 3 days later, and appeared to the apostles in His resurrected state, and they did not recognize Him at first. He gave the apostles to forgive sin, to bind and lose…what was bound on earth was bound in heaven, giving the Apostles through Peter the authority as Church to be an extension of Christ Himself who taught us, healed, forgave, directed us.

When Christ rose from the dead, the power of linear time was broken. Before people lived out their lives in sequence, you being locked in to your choice, your past. With Christ, and this is experienced by those who come to Him today, we experience the great power of Christ to restore and renew us.

Christ’s resurrection broke the power of death and sin. He taught the meaning of Scripture on the Road to Emmaus, and He broke bread with them and then disappeared, His mission accomplished.

So we have the Eucharist, the actual body, blood, soul and divinity nurturing us so we can be Christ’s servants to those around us, we renounce ourselves so His light can shine through us to others. We extend His prophetic message, His kingdom to others that is not of this world but of the life of grace within.

Following Christ is a daily feat, to renounce one’s self and to pick up the Cross and follow Him on The Way.

So God coming to us as Man was prophesized in Sacred Scriptures, Who would die an ignoble death on a ‘tree’. that would later become the symbol of the Tree of Life vs overcoming the consequences of Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit on the tree of Knowledge…where then man takes it upon himself even in becoming as a god, to decide who lives and who dies.

A true Christian believes in the sanctity of human life, this value personified in Jesus Christ. The new dimension of God that came to us from Christ is that we are no longer slaves, that we are recipients of the Good News of Jesus Christ, and the great message and charism of God now revealed to us through Christ, Son of God as Man is LOVE. God IS Love.
 
LUV4ALL said:
Tell me what need is there for God to become Human. Cutting the middlemen out(prophets/messengers) LOL at capitalism. Anyways. Please enlighten me because I am muslim. Tell me what need is there for God to become human. What purpose would that serve. And also what need at that point would God have for prophets and angels?
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To first explain why God had to become man we really need to examine why God had to die. So, when you do an injustice, the punishment (or the amount of evil of that act) is judged by how bad your act is (if it was murder or assault) and on how good/innocent/powerful the person you offended (if you attack a pregnant woman it is worse than killing Hitler, or it is worse to attack a judge than to assault a convenience store worker). So, to find redemption with these people we have to do something of good equal to how good/powerful/innocent the person was.
So, we have offended a being of infinite goodness. Because we are finite beings, there is no way of us finding true forgiveness and redemption. So, for man to become truly “even” with God, we need a being of infinite power, dignity, etc who will take our punishment (the punishment for sin is death). So, God became man. The only being who could lead to our true forgiveness became man so that He could die and make us square with God.

Otherwise, we are not living true forgiveness and God is just forgetting our sins (and He is God, I don’t think He’s going to do that). If that is true we don’t belong in Heaven, it’s like we paid the doorman to look away as we sneaked in. And if God can simply forget our sins, then why is there a Hell. Why would it matter what we believed if God could simply forget what we have done. There would be no reason for us to live in any sort of way because no matter what God could simply forgive us. If God can just forgive us, it becomes a question of who God wants in Heaven and who God wants in Hell.
 
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