My question is Stem Cell is wrong but as Catholic

[Melba_Padin]

In another web page I belong to we had this discussion of Stem Cell reaserch and what we feel about it, the thing is this web-site is for Patients of Multiple Sclerosis disease…for me is not tough to know I do not agree with the reaserch if the use embryonic cells…now a lot, a lot of patients think if the cells are thrown away why not try to save lifes with them instead of discard them…I still do not not agree, if they find a cure or a tratment for this disease I do not want to use it but it bothers me maybe if just as wrong if they come up with a cure not to use it…What do you think?

 

[Derwin_James]

Embryonic stem cell research has yet to prove 1 key element that might make it more justifiable: That embryonic stem cells are better to use for research than currently living stem cells.

 

[stinkyweed]

Adult,core blood cells all ok and have brought about cures in some diseases. The other only tumors as yet.
To answer question: It is never moral for a person to be sold or given,murdered for the use of another.

 

[b_ulmen]

With the readily available supply of adult stem cells, which have proven to be effective in treating certain ailments, why in the world is the govt going after embryonic stem cells? I suppose to give the abortion industry a client for its by-products?? makes no sense to me.

 

[Lancer]

*"…now a lot, a lot of patients think if the cells are thrown away why not try to save lifes with them instead of discard them…I still do not not agree, if they find a cure or a tratment for this disease I do not want to use it but it bothers me maybe if just as wrong if they come up with a cure not to use it…What do you think?.."

*As a Catholic Christian…the Magisterium gives us clear and directive (not optional) guidance on life issues…to maintain our righteousness in the eyes of God and our communion in the Mystical Body of Christ…quotes below (my emphasis added) from the Catechism and Holy Scripture…hope this helps.

**2274 **Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

**2295 **Experimentation on human beings is not morally legitimate if it exposes the subject’s life or physical and psychological integrity to disproportionate or avoidable risks

1755 A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together.

**1756 **It is therefore an error to judge the morality of human acts by considering only the intention that inspires them or the circumstances (environment, social pressure, duress or emergency, etc.) which supply their context. There are **acts **which, in and of themselves, independently of circumstances and intentions, are always gravely illicit by reason of their object; such as blasphemy and perjury, murder and adultery. One may not do evil so that good may result from it.

The bottom line, I believe, in these tough moral dilemmas of the modern age is not knowledge or intellect or even conscience (primacy of truth trumps my primacy of conscience…because Truth is not something…Truth is someone… Jesus Christ (B-XVI & JP-II)…“I am the Way, the Truth and the Life…” (Jn 14:6)…it is simply an exercise in FAITH…DO WE BELIEVE what Jesus said and continues to say through His Church (via his Vicar on Earth --The Vicar of Christ–The Pope and via his Holy Spirit who guides the Church in all truth…through its ordinary and extraordinary Magisterium.
“Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me.” (Lk10:16)

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you always, the Spirit of truth, which the world cannot accept, because it neither sees nor knows it. But you know it, because it remains with you, and will be in you.” (Jn14:15-17)

“I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming. He will glorify me, because he will take from what is mine and declare it to you.” (Jn16: 12-14)
“But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the **pillar and foundation **of truth.” (! Tim 3: 15)You may not be able to convince your friends…but you should not be left with any ambiguity about what the Church says and will always say about the destruction of embryonic stem cells…and why you must follow the Church’s teaching…regardless of possible rejection by your friends or your own very real compassionate feelings about their situations (remember what Jesus called/said to Peter when Peter rebuked Jesus about his telling them of his future…the great suffering and being killed (“God forbid Lord!”)…(see MT 16: 21-23).

A final hypothetical example (as an African American) …what if I told your friends that slavery is really a good thing. Sure we have to capture a Black man and take his freedom and bring him from his native land to the USA…but look at all the good that comes from this action (and might come) for him (better health care, food, get paid a few bucks for his work, maybe even learn to read and speak a little English and get a little education; …maybe even eventually get his freedom, get a little plot of land, and go on to live his own life)…and look at how much good will come to our landowners and factories and our economy/society with all the free (cheap slave) labor…do you think they would agree…even consider discussing this option… that it might be okay to pursue this option?**One may not do evil so that good may result from it.
**
*“There is genius in Catholicism.” *(Matthew Kelly)
Pax Christi

 

[ahollars]

The church is going to have to definitively answer this question. This situation has already occurred in regards to vaccinations. There are several pharmaceutical companies that have harvested the materials used to create vaccines with aborted babies as the incubators. Using this logic, one could say that eventually, the church may instruct Catholics not to get their kids vaccinated. I wonder… will any of us have the courage to obey?

 

[neat62]

Those embryonic stem cells should be baptized and buried. Do we or do we not, believe that LIFE, begins at conception or not?

if so, then the only real option is batism and burial. If not, then we have been lying to ourselves for decades.

 

[Ignatius]

In another web page I belong to we had this discussion of Stem Cell reaserch and what we feel about it,

Adult Stem Cell research is is encouraged by the Catholic Church and have produced actual results. In fact, last year a way has been found to produce plenipotentiary stem cells from other stem cells.

It is fetal Stem Cell and clone based stem cell research which are immoral and, so far, completely unproductive in spite of the fact that 1000% more money has been poured down the fetal stem cel black hole than into stem cell research.

 

[vera_dicere]

As others have mentioned, embryonic stem cells have yet to provide any cure for anything. In fact, I"ve seen a lot of research that shows they’ve made matters worse for a lot of victims.

Its just another fad, I remember when they were harping on about “foetal tissue research” where they’d use the remains of aborted foetuses in a puree - when the idiots who supported it realised it didn’t do jack they pulled back quietly.

If people are so hell bent on embryonic stem cells, then get them from the umblical cords there’s lots in there. Then there’s the adult stem cells - taken from your own body so as not to have the issue of rejection.

Seems to me there are people out there who really just need to kill someone to feel good about their place in the world. Its sad really.

And yeah, it is a mortal sin given its ending a human life, not to mention there’s the whole issue of “playing God” via way of creation of these precious children and then destorying them to appease the idiotic population who beleive a few movie stars who know how to make Parkinsons look worse then it is.

 

[mystagogia]

Realize that the whole debate regarding the permissiblity of stem cell research revolves around this issue: federal funding.

Other types of stem cell research are on-going, and have been for a long time. We have adult stem cell research and umbilical cord stem cell research, both of which are highly promising and both of which have produced real medical products and treatments that are in use. Products and treatments derived from this research exist, more are in clinical trials, and more are being developed both in private research and with federal grants.

Ironically, despite the great hype surrounding embryonic stem cells, the truth is that embryonic stem cells have never proved as promising as they sound. Private monies backing stem cell research predominately tend toward adult and umbilical cord stem cells, because these cells are the ones that have a track record of promise. For the embryonic stem cell researcher the only game in town has pretty much been federal grants. Simple cost/benefit and risk analysis force this outcome.

However, federal monies for research are limited and fraught with the same troubles for stem cell researchers looking for private investment. Why should the government back embryonic stem cell research with its limited funds over many other more promising areas of research? With great hoopla, as soon as Obama was elected, planning for the very first clinical trial was announced. Do not be decieved. Planning for several other clinical trials have been announced, but in each case the trials never happened. There has never been one clinical trial, to my knowlege, regarding embryonic stem cell products. There have been several announcements, however. Two were supposed to happen last year, but they never made it to trial. Same thing the year before.

If you are looking for your bang for the buck in scientific research, embryonic stem cells are clear losers.

If you are looking for your bang for the buck in political posturing, embryonic stem cells are clear winners. You can easily cast yourself as a visionary for progress, held back by religious simpletons (who, unfortunately, are right and wise on the issue – ssssh!).

 

[LeroyCRHP]

Fetal stem cell medicine provides a path for funding Planned Parenthood selling parts. This is really evil.

IF they found a miracle cure with fetal stem cells it could be spun into so many good news stories. This poor fetas from the beaten crack mom was able to save lives. Presently with 1 million abortions there are so many parts. This is all sad and sick. It is a backdoor success path for Planned Parenthood.

 

[vera_dicere]

Fetal stem cell medicine provides a path for funding Planned Parenthood selling parts. This is really evil.
.

Why do you think Parital Birth Abortion or Dilation and Extraction was created? Dilating a woman’s cervix so quickly is dangeorus and could kill her - obvioulsy doing the procedure over three days is “safer” but of course the bort heads peddle its all about the emergency need for this procedure.

What you actually get with PBA/D&E is a foetal brain in a bag and an entire body of mini organs and a heap of skin to sell to cosmetic companies to test their lipsticks on - since they can’t use animals anymore.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The church is going to have to definitively answer this question. This situation has already occurred in regards to vaccinations. There are several pharmaceutical companies that have harvested the materials used to create vaccines with aborted babies as the incubators. Using this logic, one could say that eventually, the church may instruct Catholics not to get their kids vaccinated. I wonder… will any of us have the courage to obey?

I assume you are talking about rubella and chicken pox vaccines. The rubella virus was obtained from a fetus aborted in the 1960s and the culture cells were as well. Chicken pox vaccine culture comes from the same source. Neither was aborted for the purpose of using either the virus or the cell culture. While the abortions themselves were tragic, the cells being used are not a complete human being and the virus certainly is not. The Church has said that if alternatives existed, we would be morally obliged to use them and should push the pharmaceutical companies to go to alternatives (Japanese vaccinations are cultured in rabbit kidney cells, for example). But since the results of non-vaccination are so dire, and no alternatives are available in this country, we are permitted to utilize the vaccinations, in the same way we are permitted to utilize cadaver bone or skin, so long as the cadavers were not killed for the purpose of harvesting the tissues.

Embryonic stem cell research is different, in that the most efficient way to do that is to fertilize eggs in vitro and utilize them. In other words, conceptions are effected artificially, which creates a human being, then the human being is used for pharmaceutical or other purposes. Embryonic research from embryos that were aborted is also evil since this is not the utilization of cells of a being that is already dead (as with the vaccines or cadaver bone) but the utilization of cells of one that is indisputably alive and human at the time of utilization.

The reason why in vitro is used is that genetic control can be exercised. As a consequence, human cloning is a feature of that kind of research. Human beings are cloned for the purpose of killing them to utilize their cells.

But, of course, genetic diversity can also be useful in “research”, so it certainly is possible that Planned Parenthood or some other group could become involved in the sale of human embryos or fetuses, and possibly at any stage of development.

 

[b_ulmen]

But since the results of non-vaccination are so dire, and no alternatives are available in this country, we are permitted to utilize the vaccinations,

Where can we find info on the permission?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Where can we find info on the permission?

You would ask me a hard one. I think I googled “rubella vaccine” and “catholic church” and eventually found it. I might have added “fetal cells” or something as well. I found it a few weeks ago.

 

[Newbie2]

Embryonic stem cell research has yet to prove 1 key element that might make it more justifiable: That embryonic stem cells are better to use for research than currently living stem cells.

Exactomundo. An “Inconvenient Truth”.

Those embryonic stem cells should be baptized and buried. Do we or do we not, believe that LIFE, begins at conception or not?

if so, then the only real option is batism and burial. If not, then we have been lying to ourselves for decades.

Hmmmm…I don’t think we’d baptise individual cells or cell lines, just complete embryos, no? Interesting…I’d like to see more discussion on an acceptable “disposition” of frozen embryos. Trouble is, if you just thaw them and bury them, in theory if they’re still viable you’d be killing them.

Then again, it may be difficult to practically determine the viability of every frozen embryo when still frozen. I’m pretty sure they have to be thawed to assess their (visible) viability, looking at the microscopic cellular charictoristics for lack of degenerative changes, but I’m also pretty sure that re-freezing them would likely destroy them.

Difficult situation, and probably why the Church has not given a definitive answer beyond the immorality of merely discarding them or using them for research. Perhaps when science has advanced to being able to image the frozen embryos or otherwise check for viability without damaging them, it will be easier to give guidelines on what to do with them besides try to adopt them.

Sadly, finding such a way is not a scientific priority.

 

[neat62]

Newbie2;

Hmmmm…I don’t think we’d baptise individual cells or cell lines, just complete embryos, no? Interesting…I’d like to see more discussion on an acceptable “disposition” of frozen embryos. Trouble is, if you just thaw them and bury them, in theory if they’re still viable you’d be killing them.

Then again, it may be difficult to practically determine the viability of every frozen embryo when still frozen. I’m pretty sure they have to be thawed to assess their (visible) viability, looking at the microscopic cellular charictoristics for lack of degenerative changes, but I’m also pretty sure that re-freezing them would likely destroy them.

Difficult situation, and probably why the Church has not given a definitive answer beyond the immorality of merely discarding them or using them for research. Perhaps when science has advanced to being able to image the frozen embryos or otherwise check for viability without damaging them, it will be easier to give guidelines on what to do with them besides try to adopt them.

Sadly, finding such a way is not a scientific priority.

Good points. I have to think about that some more. But off the top of my head, we can stop freezing embryos. Although I’d have to see all reasons why they are frozen to begin with. I’ll think about it.

 

[Newbie2]

Newbie2;

Good points. I have to think about that some more. But off the top of my head, we can stop freezing embryos. Although I’d have to see all reasons why they are frozen to begin with. I’ll think about it.

Yep, seems the Church was right all along in not allowing the can of worms which is IVF and purposely creating multiple embryos and “storing” them.