"My Question Is..."

[Sister_Helena]

Being involved with Vocation Forum here in CAF, I get to talk about and initiate threads of my own choosing. These are mostly topics related to religious life and spirituality. I am wondering if I can start a thread where the point of interest would come from you. For example, you post the question and religious on this forum can answer. What are your questions about the vows, prayer, ministry, or religious life in general? By asking the questions most relevant to you, it is more personal and instructive. Just a thought…

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

I have tried to ask my question before…and a few kind people have answered, but I was hoping for a few religious or theologically trained persons to have some (name removed by moderator)ut and so far, none…Not that I don’t appreciate the responses I have received…I just was hoping for an “expert.”

Is it true that all souls will be consecrated souls in heaven and that some souls are chosen to live that reality already on earth? (The kind of life we will all live in heaven?) Or will there still be a difference in heaven between those who are consecrated and those who aren’t in heaven? Secondly, do religious vows leave an indelible mark on the soul?

It can be a little frustrating to see that people who are being argumentative or unkind on the forums get responses much more quickly than this little, polite question of mine.

Thanks and God bless you!
Elizabeth

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

P.S.- Maybe I just haven’t given enough time to get responses to my other threads…
Ellie

 

[Sister_Helena]

I have tried to ask my question before…and a few kind people have answered, but I was hoping for a few religious or theologically trained persons to have some (name removed by moderator)ut and so far, none…Not that I don’t appreciate the responses I have received…I just was hoping for an “expert.”

Is it true that all souls will be consecrated souls in heaven and that some souls are chosen to live that reality already on earth? (The kind of life we will all live in heaven?) Or will there still be a difference in heaven between those who are consecrated and those who aren’t in heaven? Secondly, do religious vows leave an indelible mark on the soul?

It can be a little frustrating to see that people who are being argumentative or unkind on the forums get responses much more quickly than this little, polite question of mine.

Thanks and God bless you!
Elizabeth

Hello Elizabeth Anne,

I would like to premise my remarks by saying that I am not a theologian and my words are not absolute. There will be other more qualified people here on CAF who can better answer your questions. But I think I may have some answers to offer.

Your first two questions: ***Is it true that all souls will be consecrated souls in heaven and that some souls are chosen to live that reality already on earth? ***

The fact of the matter is that we were all consecrated to God the day we were baptized. The sacrament of baptism is necessary for entrance to heaven. Souls who make it to heaven are consecrated by virtue of their baptism here on earth. Religious life or the Consecrated life is a state of life where the consecration effected in baptism is lived out intensely and more intimately. In other words, those called to religious life are called to manifest the life of full intimacy and union with Christ even when still on earth. I like to borrow Elizabeth of the Trinity’s words of “living heaven on earth.” This is the main purpose of religious life- to make visible here on earth the life we are promised in heaven. This is what the Church calls “eschatological reality”, It is a life characterized by the public profession of vows, in a stable life approved and recognized by the Church. It is a particular calling, a vocation, not given to all Just like St. Paul’s analogy of different members of the one body, religious life is one form or “style” of living out one’s baptismal consecration. In the final judgment, we will be judged according to how faithful we had been to our baptismal and religious consecration while still in the flesh.
*
Secondly, do religious vows leave an indelible mark on the soul? * I do not believe so. The “indelible mark” you are referring to pertain to the Sacraments- more specifically to the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders. Religious Vows are not part of the sacraments. They are Evangelical Counsels. They are voluntarily embraced for the sake of the Kingdom. We have to remember that religious life is not part of the sacramental life of the Church (comprising of the seven sacraments.) On the other hand it is “sacramental” because it points to Christ and when lived to the full, unites us perfectly with Christ.

I hope I answered some, if not all, of your questions.

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

Sr. Helena- Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really liked what you said about religious “living heaven on earth!”

I am a little confused by some conversations I have had recently…I am not called to the religious life, pretty certainly…although I have dear friends who are. Someone recently “informed” me that because religious life is a higher calling that religious who are faithful to God will necessarily be closer to God in heaven than a lay person who is faithful to God. That is one reason I wondered if there is a “difference” once we get to heaven, or if that is just something that some people think in regards to their own possible vocation. Do you have any thoughts about that? It is a little childish but I think it would be quite “unfair” for the religious to first of all be “closer” on earth and then “closer” for all of eternity. A little pride to overcome on my part, admittedly, but just wondered if it is true or not in the first place. Am I just missing something here?

Thanks again for your kindness!
God Bless you!
Ellie

 

[Sister_Helena]

Sr. Helena- Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really liked what you said about religious “living heaven on earth!”

I am a little confused by some conversations I have had recently…I am not called to the religious life, pretty certainly…although I have dear friends who are. Someone recently “informed” me that because religious life is a higher calling that religious who are faithful to God will necessarily be closer to God in heaven than a lay person who is faithful to God. That is one reason I wondered if there is a “difference” once we get to heaven, or if that is just something that some people think in regards to their own possible vocation. Do you have any thoughts about that? It is a little childish but I think it would be quite “unfair” for the religious to first of all be “closer” on earth and then “closer” for all of eternity. A little pride to overcome on my part, admittedly, but just wondered if it is true or not in the first place. Am I just missing something here?

Thanks again for your kindness!
God Bless you!
Ellie

I don’t believe that union with God has anything to do with the “station” which He had placed us. Holiness has more to do with conforming our will to the will of God, wherever we find ourselves by God’s providence. Religious life is a perfect state, although Religious are far from being perfect. The consecrated life, by the profession of the vows, is the life of Jesus himself, it is perfect. But a Religious does not automatically become perfect just because a person chooses to embrace it. Choosing it is just the beginning. Living our consecration to the full is a work of a lifetime. In our Lady’s apparition in Fatima, she showed the children a vision of hell, and sadly the children saw Priests and Religious in that place. We all have to face the tribunal of God and will have to give an account of our stewardship. Religious would have more to answer for because all the “tools” of holiness are given us- the Eucharist, life of prayer, silence, solitude, opportunities for sacrifices and total service to others, Confession, ,retreats and many more- these all comprise the religious life and are more readily accessible to religious than an ordinary person living and working in the world, saddled by multiple concerns and responsibilities. Jesus said, “to those who are given more, much will be required.” But to answer your question- all you have to do is look at the variety of canonized Saints we have and see how different they all are in states of life. We become holy by loving God above all things and our neighbors as God loved them. To do that we strive to forget ourselves, conform our wills to God’s will, and be transformed by His grace. That is how I see it.

 

[anode]

Here’s one question, which I think many potential vocations might be thinking about.

–How much does* choice* have to do with the type of ‘work’ one ends up doing? (Awkward phrasing)

A long time ago the attitude towards type of work reflected what the Missionaries of Charity still practice–you should be able to accept doing* any* type of work anywhere in the world.

Some applicants may prefer (and be more suited for) one type of apostolate rather than another, within an institute, but know that the institute has a variety of apostolates.

Does preference play any role at all?

 

[Sister_Helena]

Here’s one question, which I think many potential vocations might be thinking about.

–How much does* choice* have to do with the type of ‘work’ one ends up doing? (Awkward phrasing)

A long time ago the attitude towards type of work reflected what the Missionaries of Charity still practice–you should be able to accept doing* any* type of work anywhere in the world.

Some applicants may prefer (and be more suited for) one type of apostolate rather than another, within an institute, but know that the institute has a variety of apostolates.

Does preference play any role at all?

Dear Anode,

There is an understanding in Religious life that one embraces it with an attitude of self-giving and abandonment to the Will of God as manifested in the will of one’s Religious Superior. The whole purpose of embracing the life of the vows is to be stripped of one’s will and preferences for the love of God (and this is an important qualifier) so that one gains the freedom of the spirit to follow wherever God’s will leads us.

But having said that, I must also add that in my Community at least (I can only speak for mine), a spirit of dialogue and consultations is normal. Consideration is given to the Sister’s talents and abilities and consideration also as to where she can serve God and the elderly best. Now, it will happen that the needs of the Congregation will dictate a different approach. Taking myself as an example, my Community has always used my training as a nurse in all of my assignments. But in my recent change of position, my Community is asking me to function in a role I was not trained for or had no previous experience in. This is where the Vow of Obedience comes in. In other words, yes, leadership looks at your potentials but are not always bound by them. This is where religious ministry differs from a regular job. Religious life always look out for the common good, not just oneself. We constantly remember that one does not become a Sister / Brother just to do good works. As Mother Teresa used to say," we (religious) are not called to be successful but to be faithful." The actions of a religious are not her own. By freely embracing the vows, we surrender our will to the will of another. If a Community goes by the practice of what I had just described, well and good, thanks be to God, but it doesn’t have to. That’s why religious life is a vocation. Not everybody can accept this attitude. God cannot use us effectively if we do not venture out to paths unknown and untried.

 

[anode]

Here’s another question, tho’ I realize that perhaps you can’t answer it!

There’s a lot of talk on the forums about habits. Many of the younger potential candidates appear to be interested in wearing them, if possible. Your institute, of course, wears one. I was wondering if you knew if *other *‘non-habited’ institutes are starting to offer wearing a modified habit as an option?

I saw a website recently of the Franciscan Sisters of Dillingen (Immaculate Heart of Mary) with a number of older sisters in a very modified habit with two young novices who appeared to be in a virtually full habit.

fargodiocese.org/vocations/sfc/index.htm

 

[Sister_Helena]

Here’s another question, tho’ I realize that perhaps you can’t answer it!

There’s a lot of talk on the forums about habits. Many of the younger potential candidates appear to be interested in wearing them, if possible. Your institute, of course, wears one. I was wondering if you knew if *other *‘non-habited’ institutes are starting to offer wearing a modified habit as an option?

I saw a website recently of the Franciscan Sisters of Dillingen (Immaculate Heart of Mary) with a number of older sisters in a very modified habit with two young novices who appeared to be in a virtually full habit.

fargodiocese.org/vocations/sfc/index.htm

I’m sorry, I do not know of one.

 

[JReducation]

Is it true that all souls will be consecrated souls in heaven

The theological answer to this is, yes. Consecrated comes from two ancient Latin words Cum and Sacris, with the sacred. When you reach heaven you are eternally united with God and cannot be separated. Therefore, you are eternally united with the sacred or the holy.

and that some souls are chosen to live that reality already on earth?

Theologically this is true. The doctrine on religious life or the consecrated life consists of two realities.

1. The religious lives on earth the intimate unity with Christ that all men and women will be living in heaven. Therefore, the religious professioin of the evangelical counsels is an eschatalogical sign (proof) of the coming Kingdom of God, where men and women are not given in marriage, have no needs because God satisfies all needs, and are totally conformed to the mind of God. Hence the three vows: chastity, poverty and obedience.
2. The consecrated life is prophetic. It speaks to man of that which has been given to us, but will only be perfected in heaven. While the religious cannot perfectly live the heavenly reality while on earth, because he still struggles with sin, he begins the journey. When the Church looks at the religious she should be able to see some shadow of what will be perfected in heaven. Therefore, the Church should be able to look at religious and see:

adoration: constant prayer as the angels and saints in heaven do

purity of heart: no other desire except to posess and be posessed by Jesus Christ

penance: on going change toward holiness or what we call on-going conversion

brotherhood: that word is deliberately used instead of community. This is the recognition of God as Father. When I acknowledge that the other person is my brother or sister, I am making a statement about God as Father.

charity: in the end the only thing that will be left after this world is over is love. The religious must strive to achieve the perfection of love, even though it will not be achieved on earth, but we approximate it.

Secondly, do religious vows leave an indelible mark on the soul?

There are only three sacraments that produce an ontological change: Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders. And Baptism and Confirmation are on the same continuum. That’s why in many Eastern Catholic Churches children are baptized and confirmed at the same time.

The vows of a married person constitute a sacrament. The vows of a religious do not. However, the vows of a religious draw the person into intimacy with Christ without that intimacy being mediated through marriage. Whether or not the religious takes advantage of that intimacy is up to him/her. Christ makes himself available, but he does not force people to be faithful to him.

I hope that helped.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[JReducation]

Dear Anode,

There is an understanding in Religious life that one embraces it with an attitude of self-giving and abandonment to the Will of God as manifested in the will of one’s Religious Superior. The whole purpose of embracing the life of the vows is to be stripped of one’s will and preferences for the love of God (and this is an important qualifier) so that one gains the freedom of the spirit to follow wherever God’s will leads us.

But having said that, I must also add that in my Community at least (I can only speak for mine), a spirit of dialogue and consultations is normal. Consideration is given to the Sister’s talents and abilities and consideration also as to where she can serve God and the elderly best. Now, it will happen that the needs of the Congregation will dictate a different approach. Taking myself as an example, my Community has always used my training as a nurse in all of my assignments. But in my recent change of position, my Community is asking me to function in a role I was not trained for or had no previous experience in. This is where the Vow of Obedience comes in. In other words, yes, leadership looks at your potentials but are not always bound by them. This is where religious ministry differs from a regular job. Religious life always look out for the common good, not just oneself. We constantly remember that one does not become a Sister / Brother just to do good works. As Mother Teresa used to say," we (religious) are not called to be successful but to be faithful." The actions of a religious are not her own. By freely embracing the vows, we surrender our will to the will of another. If a Community goes by the practice of what I had just described, well and good, thanks be to God, but it doesn’t have to. That’s why religious life is a vocation. Not everybody can accept this attitude. God cannot use us effectively if we do not venture out to paths unknown and untried.

I totally agree with what you have said Sister. If I may piggy-back here and add another detail. When looking at a religious community, whether male or female, it is important to know one’s gifts, interests and limitations. Many communities have very spedific ministries. For example, Sister’s congregation does nursing. If one is not inclined to nursing, such a community would be a horrible choice.

My community’s ministry is the conversion of Catholics. Today we find ourselves working very hard among Catholics who embrace the Culture of Death. This means that our brothers, even though most are not priests, all must have advanced degrees in theology and all must be very eloquent, because they will spend most of their lives preaching, teaching, counseling, directing, and anything else that needs to be done to convert Catholics back to the Gospel of Life and back to the Church. A man who is inclined to research and the university classroom would not be happy with us.

The person thinking about religious life really has to look at his gifts and limitations, as well as the spirituality of the community. You may have a Carmelite or Franciscan spirituality, but there are many Carmelite and Franciscan communities with different emphases in ministry, even though they all live the same rule. You have to find your nitch in that regard.

As sister said, most superiors will consider your gifts and talents, but in the end, you go where you’re told and do what you’re ordered to do, no more questions. Just as Sister has said. She’s doing something for which she was not trained. But there are not choices here.

I had a similar situation. I was elected superior. The rule says that we cannot turn down an election, because we are bound under vow to obey our brothers in a chapter. Meaning that if the chapter elects you, you are bound under obedience to take the job and do it. I was terrified and not too happy. It involved many changes. But that’s what obedience is about, surrendering my wishes, my opinions and my preferences when the rubber meets the road.

I had to ask many brothers to do things that they had specifically told me that they did not feel they could do or go to places that they were not really interested in going. But as superiors we too are bound by obedience. We must obey the will of the chapter. The chapter says that we must serve the community’s needs. If a brother was needed in some specific spot, that’s where he had to go and I had the obligation to assign him. The brother accepted it with faith that Christ would support him.

The good thing is that you are within a community where you feel at home with the ministry and the spirituality, even though you may not like your job. But to be very honest with you, you get over that dislike very quickly, if you are truly obedient. Somehow grace takes over and you have a great sense of peace. I believe Mother Teresa was very aware of this.

I’m sorry Sister, I am not trying to contradict what you’re saying. You’re right on the money. I just wanted to add the part about examining your gifts and limitations before entering and remembering that superiors are also bound by obedience when they assign. They are not assigning on a whim. Correct me if I made a mistake.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Sister_Helena]

I totally agree with what you have said Sister. If I may piggy-back here and add another detail. When looking at a religious community, whether male or female, it is important to know one’s gifts, interests and limitations. Many communities have very spedific ministries. For example, Sister’s congregation does nursing. If one is not inclined to nursing, such a community would be a horrible choice.

My community’s ministry is the conversion of Catholics. Today we find ourselves working very hard among Catholics who embrace the Culture of Death. This means that our brothers, even though most are not priests, all must have advanced degrees in theology and all must be very eloquent, because they will spend most of their lives preaching, teaching, counseling, directing, and anything else that needs to be done to convert Catholics back to the Gospel of Life and back to the Church. A man who is inclined to research and the university classroom would not be happy with us.

The person thinking about religious life really has to look at his gifts and limitations, as well as the spirituality of the community. You may have a Carmelite or Franciscan spirituality, but there are many Carmelite and Franciscan communities with different emphases in ministry, even though they all live the same rule. You have to find your nitch in that regard.

As sister said, most superiors will consider your gifts and talents, but in the end, you go where you’re told and do what you’re ordered to do, no more questions. Just as Sister has said. She’s doing something for which she was not trained. But there are not choices here.

I had a similar situation. I was elected superior. The rule says that we cannot turn down an election, because we are bound under vow to obey our brothers in a chapter. Meaning that if the chapter elects you, you are bound under obedience to take the job and do it. I was terrified and not too happy. It involved many changes. But that’s what obedience is about, surrendering my wishes, my opinions and my preferences when the rubber meets the road.

I had to ask many brothers to do things that they had specifically told me that they did not feel they could do or go to places that they were not really interested in going. But as superiors we too are bound by obedience. We must obey the will of the chapter. The chapter says that we must serve the community’s needs. If a brother was needed in some specific spot, that’s where he had to go and I had the obligation to assign him. The brother accepted it with faith that Christ would support him.

The good thing is that you are within a community where you feel at home with the ministry and the spirituality, even though you may not like your job. But to be very honest with you, you get over that dislike very quickly, if you are truly obedient. Somehow grace takes over and you have a great sense of peace. I believe Mother Teresa was very aware of this.

I’m sorry Sister, I am not trying to contradict what you’re saying. You’re right on the money. I just wanted to add the part about examining your gifts and limitations before entering and remembering that superiors are also bound by obedience when they assign. They are not assigning on a whim. Correct me if I made a mistake.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Thank you, Brother! You are so right in adding those details. Your wisdom does a lot of good.

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

Thank you to Sr. Helena and Brother JR for your responses to my questions!

God bless you!
Ellie Anne

 

[anode]

Thank you, Brother! You are so right in adding those details. Your wisdom does a lot of good.

I think that Sr. Helena is doing vocation work now. She says that she was not trained for this work, but then, few are.

I suspect that inquirers into women’s orders in the US are looking carefully at apostolates of the institutes they are interested in. I doubt that many really want to do anything anywhere. I suspect that one reason certain teaching orders are so popular–the Nashville and Ann Arbor Dominicans, specifically, is that they do a predictable work that inquirers are interested in doing. It is true that, as final professed, they may be requested to teach other subjects in other places, but I suspect that these places are predictable, in other schools that the order runs, or possibly in a new school. Not in an entirely new ministry, unless it’s vocations work or other administrative work within the order.

 

[JReducation]

I think that Sr. Helena is doing vocation work now. She says that she was not trained for this work, but then, few are.

I suspect that inquirers into women’s orders in the US are looking carefully at apostolates of the institutes they are interested in. I doubt that many really want to do anything anywhere. I suspect that one reason certain teaching orders are so popular–the Nashville and Ann Arbor Dominicans, specifically, is that they do a predictable work that inquirers are interested in doing. It is true that, as final professed, they may be requested to teach other subjects in other places, but I suspect that these places are predictable, in other schools that the order runs, or possibly in a new school. Not in an entirely new ministry, unless it’s vocations work or other administrative work within the order.

Religious communities involved in teaching and healthcare have much more predictable assignments compared to communities that are involved in evangelization. That’s becaues evangelization is a much broader field The same thing happens with communnities that serve the very poor. You have to go where the poor ae, that can change from one day to the next.

Another difference is whether you join a mendicant or an postolic community. Apostolic communities have much more defined parameters of action or ministry than mendicants… To most mendicants ministry is accidental, not essential to the religious life. For mendicants obedience does not give you much predictability, because they do not engage in structured minstries. Their focus is the community life, not the ministry. The ministry is very sponataneous, meaning that they respond to the needs as they arise wherever they may arise. Canonically, mendicants are received under the title of Pauperitas and apostolic religious are received under the title of tabla comunitatis. Pauperitas means poverty. Tabla comunitatis means common table.

The diference is that the menticants are expect to have nothing and be available wherever they are needed. The apostolic communities are expected to share the common table, meaning that they can own property in common and have whatever they need for the ministry that they do. This offers a certain amount of predictability and security too.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[elizabeth_anne_1]

For a person who can not enter religious life due to a health reason- what would be the best way for that person to “understand” their situation? Are there specific spiritual attitudes that would be most pleasing to God in that situation? What should a person do if they experience negative emotions about not having this calling?

 

[Sister_Helena]

I think that Sr. Helena is doing vocation work now. She says that she was not trained for this work, but then, few are.

Actually, they just made me Human Resources Director which is so non-nursing! But also part vocation and assistant prioress. I actually enjoy vocation work.

 

[anode]

anode;6442759:

I think that Sr. Helena is doing vocation work now. She says that she was not trained for this work, but then, few are.

Actually, they just made me Human Resources Director which is so non-nursing! But also part vocation and assistant prioress. I actually enjoy vocation work.

It sounds as if you do.

 

[JReducation]

anode;6442759:

I think that Sr. Helena is doing vocation work now. She says that she was not trained for this work, but then, few are.

Actually, they just made me Human Resources Director which is so non-nursing! But also part vocation and assistant prioress. I actually enjoy vocation work.

My two favorite ministries were Vocation Director and on the Feast of Pentecost, we switch and I’ll no longer be the superior. I’m going to be Formation Director and I love that. I’ve done that before. Novices and postulants are great to have around.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF