My religion is better than your religion

[Kelly17]

Hehehe…
Thanks!!!

I read the Hail Mary thread and got so many knew knowledges of it… COOL!

Catholics are really practising their biblical faith by asking saints to pray for them – they actually believe that saints who are in heaven, are not dead and you can ask them pray for you as you could ask your fellow Christians on Earth!

And that Mary is so special because she was like an ark of God – carrying Jesus in her body!!!

Like the ark of God in Old Testament (which only contained the 10 commandments etc) carried by Aron and others was considered so special – how much more special then is Mary who carried the living Word of God inside her!

Think that different religions have so much to give to each other!!! Have been Christian over 10 years and that revelation what Catholics have is totally new for me!!! Wow!!!

 

[jmcrae]

Hehehe…
Thanks!!!

I read the Hail Mary thread and got so many knew knowledges of it… COOL!

Catholics are really practising their biblical faith by asking saints to pray for them – they actually believe that saints who are in heaven, are not dead and you can ask them pray for you as you could ask your fellow Christians on Earth!

And that Mary is so special because she was like an ark of God – carrying Jesus in her body!!!

Like the ark of God in Old Testament (which only contained the 10 commandments etc) carried by Aron and others was considered so special – how much more special then is Mary who carried the living Word of God inside her!

Think that different religions have so much to give to each other!!! Have been Christian over 10 years and that revelation what Catholics have is totally new for me!!! Wow!!!

Welcome aboard!!

 

[Kelly17]

dear jmcrae,

thanx!!!

(…actually am abroad long ago, since i became a Christian – a protestant first, and just lately started to attend Catholic church)… just a pity that there seems to be such a wall between Catholics and non-Catholics…

Maybe no one is better but we just have different sides of revelation?

Like in the joke of 4 blind men and an elephant:

One man, who is holding his leg says: “Elephant is like a pillar!”
(it is an ORTHODOX man )
Another who holds his trunk, says: “No, he is like a hose!” (a LUTHERAN man)
Third, sitting on his back, says: “No, like a big rock!” (a CATHOLIC )
Fourth, holding his tail: “No, like a wire…” (BAPTIST)

So, who is right?

I appreciate my Catholic priest very much because he does not say that some Christians are better and some worse. He says that actually in Christ there is no difference if you are Catholic or protestant.

God wants to bring us closer. Not fighting.
HUGS!!!

 

[Kelly17]

LOL, I meant “am aboard long ago” (not abroad )

 

[jmcrae]

dear jmcrae,

thanx!!!

(…actually am abroad long ago, since i became a Christian – a protestant first, and just lately started to attend Catholic church)… just a pity that there seems to be such a wall between Catholics and non-Catholics…

Maybe no one is better but we just have different sides of revelation?

Before I found out that all of the churches did not, in fact, start at the same time, I used to think so. (I used to think that Jesus never actually founded a religion, and that the churches all came about at some time during the Middle Ages, and that everyone was just having different ideas about how to make that go.)

Like in the joke of 4 blind men and an elephant:

One man, who is holding his leg says: “Elephant is like a pillar!”
(it is an ORTHODOX man )
Another who holds his trunk, says: “No, he is like a hose!” (a LUTHERAN man)
Third, sitting on his back, says: “No, like a big rock!” (a CATHOLIC )
Fourth, holding his tail: “No, like a wire…” (BAPTIST)

So, who is right?

The one who can see the whole Elephant - who is not blind. The rest are sincere, but have only part of the Elephant, and no way to get at the rest of him.

 

[Kelly17]

Before I found out that all of the churches did not, in fact, start at the same time, I used to think so. (I used to think that Jesus never actually founded a religion, and that the churches all came about at some time during the Middle Ages, and that everyone was just having different ideas about how to make that go.)

Yea… but i know that different churches started at different times.
Right, there are churches whose religion cannot be called Christian…
Like Jehova witnesses and mormons, some free churches who call them Christians but their teaching is not.

It is for me hard to say about US and Canada, because I have never been to America. I do not know exactly what is the situation of the churches there.

My country has experienced very hard times in not very distant past. There have happened many miracles and wonders in our churches, things like Jesus did on Earth.

I have no reason to doubt that it was not God who made these miracles. I have no reason to doubt that those non-Catholic churches have false teaching (non-Christian teaching), where these miracles have happened - they teach the Bible as it is.

In our country there are rather few Catholics, mostly other churches. And the leaders of different churches get along rather well here.

 

[jmcrae]

Yea… but i know that different churches started at different times.

Then you know that Jesus started the Catholic Church in 30 AD, when He first began to gather His disciples together, as we see in Matthew 16:18-19.

But in Matthew 7:21-23 we see that there are many who say “Lord, Lord,” who do miracles and cast out demons in Christ’s name, who are not of His Church, and have nothing to do with His Kingdom.

 

[Kelly17]

Then you know that Jesus started the Catholic Church in 30 AD, when He first began to gather His disciples together, as we see in Matthew 16:18-19.

But in Matthew 7:21-23 we see that there are many who say “Lord, Lord,” who do miracles and cast out demons in Christ’s name, who are not of His Church, and have nothing to do with His Kingdom.

LOL…
You are fun!
Hmmm…

Well, you have your right to believe that all other denominations are of Satan. But with that you are acting much like some free church newly converted who say that all other denominations except their own, are not of Christ.

Nothing new to me to hear… and I already hoped that Catholics were better and different than Christians in other churches…

Seems, I was wrong.
The same ol’ funny world, isn’t it?

As my good Catholic friend from Italy says: how many saints you hope to find amongst the 80 cardinals?

So, let’s stay friends, huh?
I am not ideal, too…

 

[seeker_of_God]

Kelly17, the truth is that the Catholic Church has the full Truth. That’s not to say that Protestant denominations might not have parts of it, but they have broken off from the true Church started by Jesus 2000 years ago.

It’s not that we’re narrow minded, or elitist, or anything of the sort. It is just the truth.

 

[Kelly17]

Kelly17, the truth is that the Catholic Church has the full Truth. That’s not to say that Protestant denominations might not have parts of it, but they have broken off from the true Church started by Jesus 2000 years ago.

It’s not that we’re narrow minded, or elitist, or anything of the sort. It is just the truth.

Well…
Why do you think that Catholic Church has not missing anything in it’s truth?

(To mention – I am not against Catholics, actually I go to Catholic church myself now, I like its teachings – the things what priests are teaching to me, what my Italian Catholic friend has been talking to me ecc…

… but I am really annoyed when people come and tell me that only they are RIGHT and all others are wrong

You know why? I have heard it TOO much already by non-Catholics.)

Seeker of God – by your way of thinking – could there be no other church except Catholic which has the full Truth?

If so, are you 100% sure of it?

If you are, can you prove it to me? LOL.

Could there be some evangelical Churches who have the full Truth?

Could there be some Jewish Christian churches that have the full Truth?

 

[RobbyS]

Look at the middle east… every conflict there is religious based.

Not only on religion. The usual motives for war apply there as well. The savage war between Saddam’s Iraq and Iran was as much racial as religious. Within Iraq, the differences are as much tribal as religious.

 

[RobbyS]

Well…
Why do you think that Catholic Church has not missing anything in it’s truth?

(To mention – I am not against Catholics, actually I go to Catholic church myself now, I like its teachings – the things what priests are teaching to me, what my Italian Catholic friend has been talking to me ecc…

… but I am really annoyed when people come and tell me that only they are RIGHT and all others are wrong

You know why? I have heard it TOO much already by non-Catholics.)

Seeker of God – by your way of thinking – could there be no other church except Catholic which has the full Truth?

If so, are you 100% sure of it?

If you are, can you prove it to me? LOL.

Could there be some evangelical Churches who have the full Truth?

Could there be some Jewish Christian churches that have the full Truth?

May I suggest that some churches are more truthful than others? The Episcopal church, for instance, is veering toward
a faith that is very different from what it has taught historically.
Anglicanis, historically, has had much to commend it. But its famous triad of Scripture, Tradition, and Reason has been abandoned in favor of a New Agey faith that regards traditional Christianity as outdated and even false. Many faithful Christian still remain, but their leaders are leading then down the garden path, so to speak and away from the path that leads to salvation. The Fundmentalist churches are less dangerous, because they truly believe that God speak to us through the Bible. But we think that by denying the sacraments, they deprive their members of essential means of grace. I would say that the Fundamentalist seek the right goal, which is union with the Holy Trinity, but that many Episcopalians do not. Their goal is an idolotry of the self, one which says that “salvation” is nothing more than self-realization absorbtion into an all embracing and vague reality that they call God. In short , they are well alone the same path followed earlier by Unitarianism.

 

[seeker_of_God]

Well…
Why do you think that Catholic Church has not missing anything in it’s truth?

Because jesus instituted the Church 2000 years ago, and promised the gates of hell would not overcome it.

Matthew 16:18 (NAB)

[18]*And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

Therefore, the Church cannot be in error. Those Churches that have broken away from the Catholic Church, then, are in error because they are denying the Catholic Church has the full Truth.

(To mention – I am not against Catholics, actually I go to Catholic church myself now, I like its teachings – the things what priests are teaching to me, what my Italian Catholic friend has been talking to me ecc…

That’s great. But you can’t pick and choose what among Catholic beliefs to believe yourself, if you want to follow the Catholic Church.

… but I am really annoyed when people come and tell me that only they are RIGHT and all others are wrong

Even when it is true, and the Bible says it is true?

You know why? I have heard it TOO much already by non-Catholics.)

I know, but look at how many Protestant denominations there are. over 30,000. Tell me why one of those should be the truth, especially when most of them are a splinter of a splinter of a splinter … of the Catholic Church?

Seeker of God – by your way of thinking – could there be no other church except Catholic which has the full Truth?

No, there couldn’t.

If so, are you 100% sure of it?

Yes.

If you are, can you prove it to me? LOL.

See the quoted verse. Also think why Jesus would start a Church, and then not make sure it remains in truth and without error.

Could there be some evangelical Churches who have the full Truth?

No.

Could there be some Jewish Christian churches that have the full Truth?

No.

Truth is not relative. There is one Truth, and one Church that contains the fullness of that Truth.

Just to clarify, that’s not to say that, as RobbyS says, some denominations don’t have more truth than others.

 

[Kelly17]

Because jesus instituted the Church 2000 years ago, and promised the gates of hell would not overcome it.

I agree with you in that.
Well said!

Therefore, the Church cannot be in error. Those Churches that have broken away from the Catholic Church, then, are in error because they are denying the Catholic Church has the full Truth.

I think that we have here a problem of definition.
Tell me, what do you mean by Catholic Church?
I ask it because Jesus and the disciples were initially Jews and did not call their church “Catholic”.

If you mean by Catholic Church the ORIGINAL teaching of Jesus and the disciples, I agree with you.

If you mean that no other church which does not call itself with name “Catholic”, I disagree.

That’s great. But you can’t pick and choose what among Catholic beliefs to believe yourself, if you want to follow the Catholic Church…

Even when it is true, and the Bible says it is true?

Again, the question of the concept “Catholic”.

I agree with the things what are written in the Bible but as far as I have my own head on my shoulders I can decide myself what to believe and what not – meaning that I want to believe what is written in the Bible.

But the dogmas of the church – I first need to understand them why and what. If I am convinced these are biblical – I believe. Otherwise I try to find out if they are based on the Bible or not.

I won’t believe things just because someone says “it is true”.
Pharisees in the Bible also had “the only Truth”. When Jesus came, people believed in Him. Because He lived as He taught.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly17 View Post
Seeker of God – by your way of thinking – could there be no other church except Catholic which has the full Truth?
seeker of God;4359409:

No, there couldn’t.

Again it may be the question of definition – what do you call Catholic?

If you mean that only people who call themselves Catholics have the whole Truth, I disagree.
In the world the can be many churches who do not call their congrecation Catholic but have the full Truth.

You cannot prove that there is no other churches (except the people who call themselves Catholic) who have the full Truth.

Because you do not know all the churches of the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly17:
Could there be some Jewish Christian churches that have the full Truth?
Seeker of God:
No, there couldn’t.

Yes, there could. (From NJB Catholic Bible – that is why they could):

After all, if you, cut off from what was by nature a wild olive, could then be grafted unnaturally on to a cultivated olive, how much easier will it be for them, the branches that naturally belong there, to be grafted on to the olive tree which is their o

The original OLIVE TREE is not Catholic Church. In Jesus times there was no church called “Catholic”.

Catholic Church is the branch of the original Olive Tree - which is Israel, Who is Jesus.

Yes, the Truth is not relative.
But we, being humans – could we ever wholly understand the God and His ways?
Even Augustinus said that we could not.

We are like children trying to get the huge ocean into a sand-pool.

 

[Kelly17]

The Bible quote was from Romans 11:24, NJB

 

[JMJ_coder]

I think that we have here a problem of definition.
Tell me, what do you mean by Catholic Church?
I ask it because Jesus and the disciples were initially Jews and did not call their church “Catholic”.

If you mean by Catholic Church the ORIGINAL teaching of Jesus and the disciples, I agree with you.

If you mean that no other church which does not call itself with name “Catholic”, I disagree.

The name Catholic comes directly from the Apostles. In the Acts, they call the Church - “the Church throughout all” - (Acts 9:31). In the original Greek this is “ekklesia kath olos”. About a half century later in ~110, Saint Ignatius of Antioch - who was a disciple of Saint John the Apostle (and possibly also Saint Peter) - wrote to the Smyrnaeans “wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”. That is where we get our name. The name that is applied to the only true Church. The name which the true Church still bears to this day, whose head is Jesus Christ, whose earthly and visible head is the Pope (currently Benedict XVI), whose shepherds are the Bishops in communion with the Pope - that Church, the Catholic Church.

But the dogmas of the church – I first need to understand them why and what. If I am convinced these are biblical – I believe. Otherwise I try to find out if they are based on the Bible or not.

Why must it be in the Bible (explicitly or just implicitly?)? We also have Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium. Indeed, Sacred Scripture is Sacred Tradition that has been written down - but as Saints John and Paul attest, not everything was written down.

Do you not think that the Church, which Christ promised to protect and be with, and promised to send the Holy Spirit to guide and teach, could not faithfully preserve through the ages the full Deposit of Faith, both spoken and written? If you doubt that, how do you know that Sacred Scripture has not been corrupted (as the Muslims think)?

In the world the can be many churches who do not call their congrecation Catholic but have the full Truth.

You cannot prove that there is no other churches (except the people who call themselves Catholic) who have the full Truth.

Because you do not know all the churches of the world.

Jesus founded the Church, not thousands upon thousands of differing communities. He either founded ONE Church or He founded no Church.

Each Protestant denomination has a slightly differing take on what is true. Their doctrines and beliefs are mutually exclusive and contradictory. Yet, they all claim to be led by the Holy Spirit. But, the Holy Spirit is not schizophrenic, the Holy Spirit doesn’t have multiple personalities, and the Holy Spirit is not trying to mess with our heads by leading us in completely disparate directions.

Think of it this way:
Jesus is the truth (John 14:6).
There is only one Jesus.
Therefore, there is only one truth.

Yes, the Truth is not relative.
But we, being humans – could we ever wholly understand the God and His ways?

I agree, we cannot not know all truth (which is God) in this life. But, we can know everything that God has revealed to us, and we can by His grace preserve said revelation through the ages.

 

[jmcrae]

Well…
Why do you think that Catholic Church has not missing anything in it’s truth?

Because it was given to us by Christ, together with Christ’s promise to protect it from the gates of Hell (that is, any kind of false teaching) and the promise of the Holy Spirit, who speaks through the Church, in its Councils and through the Magisterium, which give us the priests, the churches, the Bible, the prayers, and everything else that helps us in our faith.

… but I am really annoyed when people come and tell me that only they are RIGHT and all others are wrong

We are not saying others are “wrong” - simply, we are asking, who do you want to trust? Jesus, or Martin Luther (founder of Lutheranism)? Jesus, or Calvin (founder of the Reformed Churches)? Jesus, or John Knox (founder of Presbyterianism)? Jesus, or Alexander Campbell (founder of the non-denominational movement)?

These men got many things right - but only Jesus gets it all right - and we compare their teachings to Jesus’ teachings in the Catholic Church, and we see a great many differences - and again, it comes down to, who do you trust? How willing are you, to trust Jesus?

 

[Kelly17]

To jmcrae, JMJ_coder, RobbyS, seeker of God

Thanks!
Have a nice weekend!