My SIL told my son he's a "mean little boy" - what to do?

[Serap]

My SIL has mental health issues in the sense that she has an incredibly mean streak in her. She feels slighted by people for minor things and often over-reacts by destroying her relationships with people. We put up with her b/c she’s family.

That being said, I have a sensitive son who is 4 and likes to push the envelope and test people’s boundaries. My son doesn’t respect my SIL b/c he’s very perceptive and knows that my SIL doesn’t really like him. My SIL rarely has anything nice to say about my son to friends and family. She says things like “he never listens”…etc. She’s nice to him, but underneath, she doesn’t like his personality very much.

So my husband let my son to my SIL house to play and he came back to our home crying and told my husband that my SIL (his aunt) told him that he’s a “mean little boy”. When I came home my son asked me, “Am I a mean little boy?” heartbreaking…

 

[henpecked]

“…who is 4 and likes to push the envelope and test people’s boundaries”

doesn’t this define a bratty little kid?

what did son do to merit being called a mean little boy? did you ask him?

 

[Serap]

“…who is 4 and likes to push the envelope and test people’s boundaries”

doesn’t this define a bratty little kid?

what did son do to merit being called a mean little boy? did you ask him?

He won’t tell me what he did.

He’s bratty, but he’s also a very sweet good boy. If he has a cold or is tired…he’s bratty for sure.

The thing is though…is it ever ok to tell a child that they are “mean”??? That’s my issue.

 

[noclevername]

He is four years old. His perception is completely different than an adult’s. Your SIL could have been kidding with him or talking about something else and he misunderstood. You should ask your SIL about it instead of assuming she was being mean to him.

Also, you mentioned “pushing the envelop and testing boundaries”. Kids should respect adults. If your SIL has problems with your child, then don’t leave him with her but if she is in charge of him, he needs to respect her.

But don’t just assume, talk to your SIL.

 

[pensmama87]

“…who is 4 and likes to push the envelope and test people’s boundaries”

doesn’t this define a bratty little kid?

what did son do to merit being called a mean little boy? did you ask him?

In my experience that defines pretty much any kid, though some do it more than others, and there are stages when it’s more prevalent.

It may very well be that he was misbehaving or even being mean, but I don’t think it’s right for non-parents to tell a child they are mean, or bad (I’m not comfortable with parents saying those things to their own children, either, but it’s not my job to parent other people’s kids.) It’s much more preferable IMO to say, “I don’t allow that behavior/way of speaking/etc” and then lay out a consequence that’s already been deemed OK by the parent. Kids can understand how they are supposed to behave without putdowns.

(Here’s a great blog post about how this mom talks to her children when they misbehave: “In Which I Reclaim the Word “Naughty,” Because I Need It”:

It seems like “bad” is the word most commonly substituted for “naughty.” But BAD is a much bigger word. “Bad” seems like something you ARE down deep. Bad is the opposite of good. I don’t want to tell my children that they are “bad.” I don’t think they are.

What they ARE is naughty.

Naughty means unthinking. Naughty means unable to control one’s impulses of the moment. Naughty means giving in to one’s less noble inclinations. And being careless with your mittens, and so forfeiting your pie.

)

 

[BillP]

He won’t tell me what he did.

He’s bratty, but he’s also a very sweet good boy. If he has a cold or is tired…he’s bratty for sure.

He sounds like a mean little boy (at least some of the time) to me.

The thing is though…is it ever ok to tell a child that they are “mean”??? That’s my issue.

Of course it is. How are they to be corrected if the needed correction can’t be identified.

Frankly, I’d be more concerned over this:

…My son doesn’t respect my SIL …

So, you allow your four year old to disrespect an adult uncorrected, and then you come here complaining that the adult describes him as a “mean little boy”?

Really?

 

[UbiCaritas]

He won’t tell me what he did.

He’s bratty, but he’s also a very sweet good boy. If he has a cold or is tired…he’s bratty for sure.
**
The thing is though…is it ever ok to tell a child that they are “mean”??? **That’s my issue.

No, it isn’t.

It’s quite appropriate to tell a child that his behavior was mean or unkind if it was; that’s the only way a kid will ever learn how to behave correctly. Telling him that he is mean isn’t appropriate.

Have you spoken with your SIL about what happened, to get her side of the story? Not that you don’t believe your son, just that SIL might be able to offer more information–like what happened to prompt this occurrence–that would let you have a clearer idea of what happened.

 

[mommamaree]

He won’t tell me what he did.

He’s bratty, but he’s also a very sweet good boy. If he has a cold or is tired…he’s bratty for sure.

The thing is though…is it ever ok to tell a child that they are “mean”??? That’s my issue.

I cannot comment on your specific situation, since I wasn’t there, but I can answer your last question in this post.

Yes, it is okay to tell a child they are “being mean” as long as it is true and without saying that it is * who they are*.

For example, when my toddler smears her food all over herself and throws her plate across the room, I tell her “eew, you are such a messy girl now”. And then I clean her up.

When my preschooler hits her siblings or does other mean things to them, I say “you are being such a meanie to them and they won’t want to play with you if you act like that”. And then I lead her through apologizing and reconciling.

When my children misbehave, I say “you are being naughty/sassy/etc”.

So, I wonder, did she tell him he was “being mean”, and ask him to stop it, or did she say he is a mean little boy, with the implication that is his identity and with the emotional force of hatred behind it. Because there is a tremendous difference between the two. The former is reasonable, whereas the latter can be considered abusive and cruel.

 

[Book_Worm]

I have a DGS who is four so I know exactly what you mean. He is a very well behaved kid - most of the time. However, at four he is far from mastering the art of self-control and has his moments. It’s part if being a child.

The only time it’s acceptable to tell a child he is mean is when you want him to become mean. Children do a remarkable job of living up to the labels we give them.

I’d keep him away from your sister unless you are also there to witness and intervene.

 

[mommamaree]

In my experience that defines pretty much any kid, though some do it more than others, and there are stages when it’s more prevalent.

It may very well be that he was misbehaving or even being mean, but I don’t think it’s right for non-parents to tell a child they are mean, or bad (I’m not comfortable with parents saying those things to their own children, either, but it’s not my job to parent other people’s kids.) It’s much more preferable IMO to say, “I don’t allow that behavior/way of speaking/etc” and then lay out a consequence that’s already been deemed OK by the parent. Kids can understand how they are supposed to behave without putdowns.

(Here’s a great blog post about how this mom talks to her children when they misbehave: “In Which I Reclaim the Word “Naughty,” Because I Need It”:

)

We prefer and use the word naughty in our house. It has undertones of carelessness and immaturity and lack of malice, all of which are often true of little children. Now, when aggressive and hurtful behavior occurs in our house, I do not hesitate to proclaim that to be meanness.

 

[pensmama87]

We prefer and use the word naughty in our house. It has undertones of carelessness and immaturity and lack of malice, all of which are often true of little children. Now, when aggressive and hurtful behavior occurs in our house, I do not hesitate to proclaim that to be meanness.

That’s about what I do. I think it’s fair to step it up a little when a child is hurtful on purpose. I know four year olds can willfully disobey, but I don’t think many of them have the mental capacity to deliberately hurt another person. At most they are testing to see if doing x still results in y. (Will I get time-out? Will Suzy cry? Will all of the books fall down?) I think they’re still too narcissistic at that age to really get that other people have feelings the same way that they do.

 

[Serap]

He is four years old. His perception is completely different than an adult’s. Your SIL could have been kidding with him or talking about something else and he misunderstood. You should ask your SIL about it instead of assuming she was being mean to him.

Also, you mentioned “pushing the envelop and testing boundaries”. Kids should respect adults. If your SIL has problems with your child, then don’t leave him with her but if she is in charge of him, he needs to respect her.

But don’t just assume, talk to your SIL.

great advice. thank you

 

[EasterJoy]

I think I would use that as a teaching moment for the following principles:

1. People are going to judge us by the behavior we show towards them, not behavior they never see from us. If you are nasty to someone, it is natural for them to think you act that way all of the time. It is not as if Auntie can see how nice you are to everyone at church on Sundays or everyone in your pre-school. She doesn’t have a crystal ball. (I know Uncle Bob says she rides on a broom, but he was joking…)
2. Learn from Auntie how not to complain about the bad way people treat you. When people act badly, we ought to complain about what they are doing that offends us, but we ought to avoid making personal remarks. If we make personal attacks, they are less likely to consider their actions and more likely to feel hurt, act defensive and make personal remarks about us right back. Besides, if you tell someone, “that hurt my feelings–what is up with that? Why would a nice person like you act like that?” it implies that you believe someone is capable of being better. If they have a reason that they are not acting nicely, you have been open to hear about their problems. Maybe they’ll apologize and you can have a nice talk and be there for them on a bad day, instead of their day just going from bad to worse. When you say, “I don’t like you, because you are mean,” it cuts the person off and says “don’t even try, because I don’t even want to be around you.” Does being told you are mean make you want to improve in order to please Auntie? No, it doesn’t! When someone hurts you, let that remind you to always try to say things that are hard to hear without hurting the person who has to be corrected, so you give them the best chance to do better and to feel good about being around you.
3. Auntie caught you treating her badly. The way she corrected you hurt, I do not want you to imitate the way she did that, but even when someone corrects us in a hurtful way we ought to still be humble enough to consider whether or not we deserved correction. Our Lord said, *"“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your heavenly Father, for he makes his sun rise on the bad and the good, and causes rain to fall on the just and the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what recompense will you have? Do not the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet your brothers only, what is unusual about that? Do not the pagans do the same?” *(Matt. 5:43-47) You didn’t do that, did you? Don’t think that just because Auntie was clumsy about telling you that you needed improvement that she didn’t have a point. Don’t let yourself off the hook.
4. We also need to show respect for people in positions of respect, even if they don’t deserve it personally. That includes older relatives even more than relatives our own age. If you show respect to your aunt, that shows respect to your parents and grandparents–that is, if you are nice to Auntie for our sake, even if she doesn’t deserve it, that reflects on how you care about your parents and grandparents. If you bring home a friend who is really rude, I might later ask you not to bring them to our house again, but while they were our guest, I’d be as nice as I could, so I wouldn’t embarrass you as their host. Does that make sense? Besides, maybe you could tell me later that your friend had a good excuse for not doing better. (This falls under, “we are nice to her because she is family,” because you recognize her lack of boundaries is partly due to lack of capacity to do better.)

If I thought my in-law could do better, I’d ask about whether they couldn’t find a nicer way to correct a 4 year old, but I wouldn’t do that if I thought they were unlikely to improve from the correction. Pearls before swine–don’t get your pearls trampled and yourself torn up when nothing good will come of trying.

 

[Serap]

My son doesn’t respect my SIL b/c he senses that my SIL doesn’t like him. My son is very perceptive. My SIL never speaks highly of my son to anyone. I bite my tongue when she tells runs my son down to her family. I’m often sitting right there and they look at me to see what I will say…awkward…

 

[pensmama87]

My son doesn’t respect my SIL b/c he senses that my SIL doesn’t like him. My son is very perceptive. My SIL never speaks highly of my son to anyone. I bite my tongue when she tells runs my son down to her family. I’m often sitting right there and they look at me to see what I will say…awkward…

I wouldn’t bite your tongue. Maybe not while everyone else is around, but it’s not her job to trash anybody to others, whether she feels it’s “deserved” or not. But she won’t stop doing it unless you tell her you won’t tolerate it.

 

[mommamaree]

That’s about what I do. I think it’s fair to step it up a little when a child is hurtful on purpose. I know four year olds can willfully disobey, but I don’t think many of them have the mental capacity to deliberately hurt another person. At most they are testing to see if doing x still results in y. (Will I get time-out? Will Suzy cry? Will all of the books fall down?) I think they’re still too narcissistic at that age to really get that other people have feelings the same way that they do.

See, I disagree. I think little children can understand that others have feelings and that they can intentionally be hurtful. When my 3yo daughter gets in her older brother’s face and grits her teeth and squeezes her fists and makes threatening growls or grimaces at him, she means to threaten him with what she will do next. Then when she rears back and punches him, she means it to hurt him. And when she takes his drawing or his toy and rips or breaks it, she wants to make him cry. So, I tell her rightly that she is being mean, and I isolate or confine her. Then when she realizes the results of her anti-social behaviour, she becomes contrite. She wants to apologize and make up. She squeezes her brother with a giant hug and says “I am sorry I was so mean to you. Will you please forgive me?” I think children often become aware that others have feelings, and can be intentionally hurtful, sometimes years earlier than modern childhood experts will admit. Of course, every child is different, so parents can take notice of when their own child has gained that awareness and can tailor their corrections of aggressive behavior appropriately.

 

[EasterJoy]

My son doesn’t respect my SIL b/c he senses that my SIL doesn’t like him. My son is very perceptive. My SIL never speaks highly of my son to anyone. I bite my tongue when she tells runs my son down to her family. I’m often sitting right there and they look at me to see what I will say…awkward…

I’d talk to those other people about it afterwards. If you don’t correct her but wish that someone would, tell them that. If you all decide that it is better to leave the SIL alone so that she doesn’t have a real blow-up, then do that. Tell them that you would not mind them stepping in and saying, “Jon, why don’t we go outside together?” so that you can talk to your SIL without correcting her in front of your son.

Feeling out how the rest of the family believes the situation ought to be handled in general will help you decide the best game plan with your son concerning how to handle her rude remarks towards him. Maybe you can tell him to simply say, “I am sorry I hurt your feelings” and then leave the room or go to you, and you can take over from there in dealing with your SIL.

Whatever you do, though, do not give him permission to be rude to people he doesn’t happen to like. Do tell him that you totally understand the temptation, but explain that we can’t do everything we’re very tempted to do. If you decide there are situations where you are not going to come to his defense when he is being treated unfairly, explain why. “I don’t correct Auntie because she has problems and that would make them worse. I understand why you don’t like being around her, and we’ll try to keep you as far from her as you can. When you are near her, though, you have to be as nice as you can, even when she is not.”

I used to tell my children, “If you use the behavior of the worst person as your excuse to act badly, you’ll always be among the worst-behaved people in any room. Polite people stick to polite behavior, even when others don’t. Kind people stick to kind behavior, even when others don’t. If you want to stand out in a good way, you have to be willing to rise above those who stand out in a bad way.”

 

[EasterJoy]

See, I disagree. I think little children can understand that others have feelings and that they can intentionally be hurtful. When my 3yo daughter gets in her older brother’s face and grits her teeth and squeezes her fists and makes threatening growls or grimaces at him, she means to threaten him with what she will do next. Then when she rears back and punches him, she means it to hurt him. And when she takes his drawing or his toy and rips or breaks it, she wants to make him cry. So, I tell her rightly that she is being mean, and I isolate or confine her. Then when she realizes the results of her anti-social behaviour, she becomes contrite. She wants to apologize and make up. She squeezes her brother with a giant hug and says “I am sorry I was so mean to you. Will you please forgive me?” I think children often become aware that others have feelings, and can be intentionally hurtful, sometimes years earlier than modern childhood experts will admit. Of course, every child is different, so parents can take notice of when their own child has gained that awareness and can tailor their corrections of aggressive behavior appropriately.

Yes. While it isn’t realistic to believe that young children are going to have the capacity to show good manners without fail, we can’t wait to learn good behavior until we are old enough to have the full control needed to do it on a high level. It is enough that they have some capacity to understand what is expected, and that we have patience with those we are teaching in measure with their limited capacity.

It is like praying with a child who is too young to be expected to memorize the prayers on their own. They can start getting the idea and forming good habits and expectations long before they’re old enough to do the right thing without prompted on a regular basis.

 

[PaulinVA]

Serap, I don’t know if it’s possible to enforce, but I think your sister in law has earned a time out. No interaction with your family for a few months. If she asks, let her know why.

 

[pensmama87]

See, I disagree. I think little children can understand that others have feelings and that they can intentionally be hurtful. When my 3yo daughter gets in her older brother’s face and grits her teeth and squeezes her fists and makes threatening growls or grimaces at him, she means to threaten him with what she will do next. Then when she rears back and punches him, she means it to hurt him. And when she takes his drawing or his toy and rips or breaks it, she wants to make him cry. So, I tell her rightly that she is being mean, and I isolate or confine her. Then when she realizes the results of her anti-social behaviour, she becomes contrite. She wants to apologize and make up. She squeezes her brother with a giant hug and says “I am sorry I was so mean to you. Will you please forgive me?” I think children often become aware that others have feelings, and can be intentionally hurtful, sometimes years earlier than modern childhood experts will admit. Of course, every child is different, so parents can take notice of when their own child has gained that awareness and can tailor their corrections of aggressive behavior appropriately.

I guess we are interpreting our children’s behavior differently. My 3yo son can do the same thing as your daughter, but I interpret it as he has figured out that shoving/punching/whatever will get him what he wants. He may want to make his brother cry, but he doesn’t really get that when his brother cries, it’s the same awful feelings that he has that make him cry.

I don’t use that as an excuse to avoid punishment - regardless of the reason, it’s inappropriate and as soon as he can handle himself, I expect him to. It’s just that always been my understanding that children don’t really develop the awareness that others feel in the same way they do until much later childhood (and even many adults never get there.)