My sins are forgiven.. so why would I still need a priest?

[rpp]

rpp;3480195:

Referring to the section I put in bold, you contradict yourself and scripture. Please note the section in bold in your earlier post.

In Christianity, there there is no conflict between faith and reason. Faith is logical. So let’s use some logic here.

The scriptures clearly say we need to confess our sins to another person. You yourself stated this in your earlier post, but contradicted that in your later one.

You have repeatedly stated that we must forgive those who trespass (sin) against us. In this you are both correct and consistent.

However, in your earlier post, you said that other person must forgive us. What if they do not? I do not think you really meant what that implies.

Basically, since James 5:16 clearly and explicitly states that we are to confess our sins to another person, exactly **who **

are we to confess them to? You second post is clearly contradicted by scripture. Your first is more consistent, but has other problems in logic.

Whether the other person forgives you DOES NOT MATTER. If they don’t… pray for them so they receive healing and can forgive you later. Jesus himself has forgiven you because you confessed your sins to Him.

This did not answer the question. Since we are clearly, according to scripture, **required **to confess our sins to someone, who are we supposed to confess them too? You answer must take into account sins that we commit that are not against another person, such as personal sexual sins.

 

[justinthemartyr]

As the Word says to do, I have forgiven everyone who has ever offended or hurt me. I hold no grudges. Then prayed and confessed my sins directly to the Lord. Now that ALL my sins are forgiven… why would anyone still need to go to a priest?

Mar 11:25
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Mar 11:26
But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

1Jo 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1Jo 1:8
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jo 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Psa 32:5
I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

Why would Jesus ever breathe on His apostles(God breathing on man for the second time in history) and then give them His mission. Why would he then give them the power to forgive sins of others, or NOT to forgive the sins of others? Why would this be the first thing he did after he rose from the dead? Why would He then give them the authority and power to bind and loose on earth as it is in heaven?

To say that christ did not institute confession/penance is to say you don’t believe in scripture nor in any of the first 1500 years of church teaching according to history.

 

[justinthemartyr]

Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

thank God for these overseers(priests/presbyters) who have the power to forgive sins or not to forgive sins.

 

[Lampo]

You answer must take into account sins that we commit that are not against another person, such as personal sexual sins.

THAT is an excellent point!

 

[Lampo]

1. If you sin against someone… confess that sin to him/her that you wronged that person.

You said confess your sins directly to God and to no one else. Then you say in the same breath to confess to the person you wronged. Which is it? What if the person you wronged dies before you have the chance to confess to that person?

 

[c659smith]

The RCC is religion… legalism thru sacraments. I’m not a fan of legalism. I’ve been set free and I now worship God in spirit and truth.

Not a fan and what I have shown is scripture yet you have no comment.

The rich man was not a fan either that’s why Jesus sent him away.

 

[justinthemartyr]

believers reminds me of myself when i was an anti catholic protestant.

what a relativistic place to be in your walk with God.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I find it hard to understand why someone would want to join a church founded by John Calvin, or any other ordinary man, rather than one founded by Jesus Christ.

 

[jmcrae]

I find it hard to understand why someone would want to join a church founded by John Calvin, or any other ordinary man, rather than one founded by Jesus Christ.

This is exactly how I feel, too.

I used to think that all churches were man-made and I had many disagreements with the Catholic Church, but when I found out that the Catholic Church was actually founded by Christ Himself, it only took me three days to convert in my heart. (Another five months to receive my First Reconciliation, Confirmation, and First Holy Communion, though.)

 

[MelanieAnne]

This is exactly how I feel, too.

I used to think that all churches were man-made and I had many disagreements with the Catholic Church, but when I found out that the Catholic Church was actually founded by Christ Himself, it only took me three days to convert in my heart. (Another five months to receive my First Reconciliation, Confirmation, and First Holy Communion, though.)

Thanks be to GOD!!!

 

[holy_wood]

Belliever,

I think I have found a solution to your “stumbling block”.

You say that to truly be forgiven that along with confessing to God we must confess to those who we have sinned against of this you speak well.

I say unto you that I am a member of the gloried body of Christ.:extrahappy:

1 cor 12:25-26

25so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.
26If one part suffers, every part suffers with it; if one part is honored, every part rejoices with it.

As such when I sin I do not only do damage to my own soul and its relationship to God but** I also do damage to my relationship to His Church as well as damage to other members of said body.**:crying:

For this reason** I must be reconciled to the Church** just as I must be forgiven and reconciled with the brother/sister I have transgressed. :grouphug:

As you see in the bolded area that when** one suffers the whole Church suffers.** My sin in some way causes suffering in the Church (the suffering can be little more than bringing about scandal or it can bring about sufering in some unknown manner by virtue of our mystical relationship to one another acquired at baptism). uch:

My reasoning can be seen in affect in the early days of the Church when confession was public (absolution was given by both priest and laity). Now in order to minimize scandal and embarrassment confesiion is done in private.

The Priest now acts as the** represenative** of not only Christ but also as an agent of His Holy Church. For this reason one must humble themselves before them in order for ones transgression against the **“body of Christ can be forgiven”. :bowdown: **

We use early Church Fathers like Origen because it is our hope that people like you will use reason and see that the teachings of the Church go back to the earliest days of Christendom and that your beliefs are new and thus untrue to orthodoxy.

I hope this has helped

God Bless,

Terence a.k.a. holy_wood

 

[peary]

Jam 5:16
Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

It does not say confess your faults to a priest!

The priest (presbyteros) speaks on behalf of the Church as witness to the forgiveness of your sins. He has the authority to do so.

If you do something wrong to someone… confess to that person. That person must then forgive you. If you do that then God can forgive you of your sins.

You seem to think that forgiveness is something you can turn on and off like a water tap. People opt for justice over forgiveness. Forgiveness sometimes takes years and years to accomplish, and only with the help of God’s grace. To think otherwise is rather naive.

A priest CANNOT forgive you of your sins but GOD alone.

Christ transferred that power of God TO HIS APOSTLES and to those He entrusted in His Church. This is biblical. That power has come down to us through apostolic succession via the sacrament of Orders. It is a special charism of the Holy Spirit. You don’t understand Christ’s ministry and what he directed the Church to do, or its ministers.

However, if you do not forgive someone of their sins against you, God cannot forgive you.

 

[holy_wood]

I would like to use Peary’s post to bolster my previous arguments.

 

[Nordar]

I would like to use Peary’s post to bolster my previous arguments.

B:thumbsup: ravo! to both your posts, I myself went to confession last night in preparation for Divine Mercy Sunday and I feel Blessed.

 

[holy_wood]

B:thumbsup: ravo! to both your posts, I myself went to confession last night in preparation for Divine Mercy Sunday and I feel Blessed.

Thanks, I myself went to confession on Thursday.

 

[mike7795]

Say what you will, but I don’t think Jesus’ intention was to replace one legalistic religion with another.

That being said, I do go to confession at times, but not because I believe I MUST go there to be forgiven. I’m honestly trying to better myself, become closer to God, etc., and if there is a particularly tough issue I’m dealing with, I’ll go to a priest. I don’t know, maybe it’s for advice, or maybe just to get it off my chest, but that’s why I go.

Like my priest told me the first time I went to confession with a list of my sins: God doesn’t keep lists, and neither should I. I find it much more beneficial to spend those few minutes working out the “major” issue than I do running down a list of sins. That actually helps, IMHO.

Mike

 

[peary]

The RCC is religion… legalism thru sacraments. I’m not a fan of legalism. I’ve been set free and I now worship God in spirit and truth.

**…like a heifer being let out of the barn at springtime, no doubt. **

 

[J_C]

you only really need to go to confession for mortal sins, venial sins are forgiven whenever you attend Mass and receive communion. venial sin weakens us, though, and also sometimes our sin is more grave than we are aware of, so a priest can be helpful in these cases.

 

[justinthemartyr]

scripture never says to confess your sins directly to God, so why would you only do that?

even in the OT they offered their sins to the high priest who would take them into the holy of holies once a year and receive forgiveness for them. In the continuation and fulfillment of judaism, the priests of the NT do the same, only in a more perfected manner.

 

[holy_wood]

Believer,

I would like to ask that when Peter rose Tabitha from the grave or when his shadow healed the afflicted or when one of the other Apostles healed and did wonders did they do this by there own power or was it God’s power being manifested through them?

Were not the Apostles merely acting as the conduits for God’s grace?

Mark 2:6-9

Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7"Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?" Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’?

"It is a wicked generation who needs a sign". But every generation needs repentance. God left his Church the means to bring about reconciliation to him in a way that paralleled the manner in which repentance was carried out in Old Testament temple offerings.

God requires his faithful to come to reconciliation to his priest. It is God who is doing the forgiving just as it was God who was doing the resurrections and healing though he did it through his most beloved creation “MEN”.

Dear believer, why is this so hard for you to understand.? If God used his Apostles to heal the physical infirmities of his children why then would he not use them also to heal the wounds of there souls marred by sin?