My sister doesn't want her faith

[thomasf]

That’s a bad thread title, but I’m not sure what else to say. Or where to say it.

My sister got divorced a year or so ago. Since then she’s been doing a non-denominational bible study, going to a non-denom worship service, and basically turning away from the church. I think a lot of what she’s doing is because of her divorce and what the church’s stance on divorce is, that she felt disserted by the church during her divorce, etc. (her words not mine) She’s basically been looking for God elsewhere.

I’ve been working on her the past few months trying to make her see that what she’s doing is foolish and that she’s throwing away her faith, the heritage our parents gave us and what was handed down throughout our family’s history. Trying to explain the church to her, help her understand.

What I’ve found is that she’s very ignorant about the faith and really doesn’t know what the church is, or what we believe. And she’s got a lot of weird misconceptions. So I’ve been trying to instruct her and explain things to her.

The other side of the coin is that her non-denom friends, and I suspect that there is some baptist influence as well, are telling her other things and pulling her in other directions. Many of the things she talks to me about are straight out of anti-catholic 101. I get a lot of the usual protestant misconceptions from her. Additionally, she has some luthern minister talking to her about faith as well. And she really has a lot of personal bias against the church. Which puzzles me as she brought her kids up in the church and still goes, at times, to her local catholic church. And at one time she was part of the RCIA program in that church!

Tonight I was talking to her about confession and she told me that she didn’t believe in going to confession with a priest, that she could confess her sins to God directly. I almost lost it. After months of trying to diffuse all these weird misconceptions she has and these wrong protestant ideas she gets from elsewhere, this latest thing really devistated me.

After going through all the arguments, explaining to her that Jesus Himself instituted the sacrament, she still won’t budge. She didn’t even know there were bible verses that supported it or that Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sin. I got a lot of goofy run arounds from her about the church. From the idea that after 2000 years there are things the church does that weren’t intended or that things have been twisted or changed by men through the years, to how do we know that what the bible says Jesus said is real, or how do we know the church didn’t make this up. She at times contradicted herself and didn’t make sense. She at one point told me that things that were done in Jesus’ time weren’t applicable to us today. And she said she’d rather confess to an apostle than a priest today, and that men today are wicked and sinful not like the apostles and that she couldn’t confess to a priest today because of that.

Obviously she doesn’t really understand what she believes or why. She just doesn’t want to go to confession and is being stubborn about it.

What really bothers me though is that after months of explaining the church and why we do the things we do, she has these crazy ideas about the church and about deciding on theology for herself. And it really discourages me. Out of the 4 of us children, my brother is an angry aethist that doesn’t believe in anything. This sister is obviously confused and wants to make things up for herself. And my other sister wants to go to catholic church a couple times a year, got her kids confirmed and has basically decided to give up on the church, and believes as long as she’s good she can go to heaven. It really kills me to see these sisters and brother of mine have no idea about the faith our parents gave us, and be so clueless about the church. And not even want to know about it.

And what really sucks is that now I’m the crazy catholic church guy in the family, and suddenly I’m the bad guy or nut because I’m so serious about my faith. It’s all very discouraging and I feel like no matter what I do or say to these siblings of mine they don’t care and don’t want to listen. And I gaurantee my mom is spinning in her grave right now.

Ugh.

 

[pharmacistUH]

I am sorry to hear about that. I somewhat know what you are going through though, because my parents and sister don’t take the faith as serious as they should either. I have managed to get them to go to mass every week, but other than that they are the same. They don’t try to pray or anything, and they always come up with excuses whenever I try to get them to go to confession. The only thing we can do is pray that God will have mercy and allow them to be forgiven of sins before they die. I will pray for you and your family. Don’t let what they say discourage you when they say, “you are a lunatic, blah blah”.

 

[thomasf]

This is what discourages me. I have reverted to the faith after 17 years, and have discovered things I never knew. Everything I know about the church, everything I’ve learned, makes my heart leap. I love the church, I love my relationship with Jesus and God now, and I’ve found something I’ve been missing for the last 20 or so years. And everything I’ve found has made my life better and so much more happier. Yet any attempt to discuss it or share it with my family is seen as another attack by Tom the crazy catholic.

I see my sisters and brother going through life chasing things of the secular world, and happiness of the secular world, and ignoring the gifts of the church. They are all unhappy, and want nothing to do with learning the things I’ve discovered, or trying to find happiness in Jesus Christ and His church. To the point that they turn their back on the very faith that my parents believed, and held dear. I feel that what I’ve found in my faith helps to connect me to my parents, what they believed and lived, and what they wanted for their children. And it saddens me to no end that my siblings are just throwing it away.

And what hurts even more is that there is seemingly nothing I can do.

 

[pharmacistUH]

Well, you are already stronger than me, and I have huge respect for you. To have the rest of your family not even believe in God is very disheartening indeed. You have already made every attempt to explain to your family that YOU will continue to hold onto the faith that your parents had. Our Lady of Fatima said that if we pray the rosary every day for the conversion of sinners, then more people shall enter heaven. The only (and best) thing we can do is pray. It almost makes me feel helpless, but I know that prayer is the most powerful weapon we have.

 

[Story]

Oh yes there is, if you are up to a bit of spiritual warfare… I have a sister that has fallen away from the Church as well, and a brother who walked away with atheistic ideas, and a third trying to remain in, despite the nature of his world and his wife’s predilection for drug abuse…

Pray to St. Augustine of Hippo, one of the most wayward sons of the Church, and to his mother, the sweet St. Monica, who prayed him and his father into the Church…

Offer up a few communions on the side, and your masses for those masses they are missing.

I’ll be praying here, too.

Story

 

[CARose]

Tell me about it Thomas!

I’m the oldest of 6, the only one who never went to a Catholic HS and now the only one who takes the faith seriously. Most are atheist, two have wives who are Catholic, although cafeteria Catholic at that. I’m so glad God brought me back home to the Church before it was too late for me to have a positive impact on my daughter. I don’t know what I would do if I were responsible for not teaching her the faith!

Keep your family in prayer. If you can, pray the Rosary every day for them. It’s a powerful weapon!

God Bless,

CARose

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

That’s a bad thread title, but I’m not sure what else to say. Or where to say it.

My sister got divorced a year or so ago. Since then she’s been doing a non-denominational bible study, going to a non-denom worship service, and basically turning away from the church. I think a lot of what she’s doing is because of her divorce and what the church’s stance on divorce is, that she felt disserted by the church during her divorce, etc. (her words not mine) She’s basically been looking for God elsewhere.

I’ve been working on her the past few months trying to make her see that what she’s doing is foolish and that she’s throwing away her faith, the heritage our parents gave us and what was handed down throughout our family’s history. Trying to explain the church to her, help her understand.

What I’ve found is that she’s very ignorant about the faith and really doesn’t know what the church is, or what we believe. And she’s got a lot of weird misconceptions. So I’ve been trying to instruct her and explain things to her.

The other side of the coin is that her non-denom friends, and I suspect that there is some baptist influence as well, are telling her other things and pulling her in other directions. Many of the things she talks to me about are straight out of anti-catholic 101. I get a lot of the usual protestant misconceptions from her. Additionally, she has some luthern minister talking to her about faith as well. And she really has a lot of personal bias against the church. Which puzzles me as she brought her kids up in the church and still goes, at times, to her local catholic church. And at one time she was part of the RCIA program in that church!

Tonight I was talking to her about confession and she told me that she didn’t believe in going to confession with a priest, that she could confess her sins to God directly. I almost lost it. After months of trying to diffuse all these weird misconceptions she has and these wrong protestant ideas she gets from elsewhere, this latest thing really devistated me.

After going through all the arguments, explaining to her that Jesus Himself instituted the sacrament, she still won’t budge. She didn’t even know there were bible verses that supported it or that Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sin. I got a lot of goofy run arounds from her about the church. From the idea that after 2000 years there are things the church does that weren’t intended or that things have been twisted or changed by men through the years, to how do we know that what the bible says Jesus said is real, or how do we know the church didn’t make this up. She at times contradicted herself and didn’t make sense. She at one point told me that things that were done in Jesus’ time weren’t applicable to us today. And she said she’d rather confess to an apostle than a priest today, and that men today are wicked and sinful not like the apostles and that she couldn’t confess to a priest today because of that.

Obviously she doesn’t really understand what she believes or why. She just doesn’t want to go to confession and is being stubborn about it.

What really bothers me though is that after months of explaining the church and why we do the things we do, she has these crazy ideas about the church and about deciding on theology for herself. And it really discourages me. Out of the 4 of us children, my brother is an angry aethist that doesn’t believe in anything. This sister is obviously confused and wants to make things up for herself. And my other sister wants to go to catholic church a couple times a year, got her kids confirmed and has basically decided to give up on the church, and believes as long as she’s good she can go to heaven. It really kills me to see these sisters and brother of mine have no idea about the faith our parents gave us, and be so clueless about the church. And not even want to know about it.

And what really sucks is that now I’m the crazy catholic church guy in the family, and suddenly I’m the bad guy or nut because I’m so serious about my faith. It’s all very discouraging and I feel like no matter what I do or say to these siblings of mine they don’t care and don’t want to listen. And I gaurantee my mom is spinning in her grave right now.

Ugh.

What your sister is doing is looking for a group of people that fit into her new morals. Most of us don’t like it when we can’t have it our way.

 

[po18guy]

Don’t answer, but do you think she had an abortion? This is one of the first things that Archbishop Sheen asked of a woman who was absolutely dead-set against confession. In that case, the answer was “yes”.

Your sister is fleeing from the truth for some reason. That is where the contradictions and lack of sense come from. When she is ready to face the truth once again, she will have a much more open mind toward the church.

Something is clouding her judgment, and sin immediately comes to mind.

Prayers to the two of you.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Since then she’s been doing a non-denominational bible study, going to a non-denom worship service, and basically turning away from the church.

There’s no such thing as a “non-denominational” anything.

It might well be a denomination of one (church or person).

But most would fit easily into one or more existing denominations.

 

[thomasf]

Don’t answer, but do you think she had an abortion? This is one of the first things that Archbishop Sheen asked of a woman who was absolutely dead-set against confession. In that case, the answer was “yes”.

Your sister is fleeing from the truth for some reason. That is where the contradictions and lack of sense come from. When she is ready to face the truth once again, she will have a much more open mind toward the church.

Something is clouding her judgment, and sin immediately comes to mind.

Prayers to the two of you.

This came to my mind as well. Not necessarily that she’s had an abortion, but that she’s got something she’s hiding or doesn’t want to face. Which is too bad, she could get it off her heart and soul and move on in grace.

I sent her a lot of apologetic material last week after our conversation and left it at that. She hasn’t returned my calls so I’m not sure if she’s mad at me or not.

What your sister is doing is looking for a group of people that fit into her new morals. Most of us don’t like it when we can’t have it our way.

I tend to think this as well. It seems to me in her arguments against going to a priest for confession she was grasping at whatever she could to justify her actions so she could live life her way. Too bad it doesn’t work that way. God, Jesus, make it very clear what they want and just because you find a group of people that is willing to agree with your viewpoint doesn’t make it right.

After my mother died I remember having a conversation with her about purgatory and judgement. She said she didn’t believe in purgatory and didn’t believe in the church’s view of death and judgement. At that time I didn’t know what to think, but I do remember it being the same kind of stubborn “I know better” attitude that she refused to explain.

I will just have to keep praying for her, I guess.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[po18guy]

This came to my mind as well. Not necessarily that she’s had an abortion, but that she’s got something she’s hiding or doesn’t want to face. Which is too bad, she could get it off her heart and soul and move on in grace.

Ever notice how the penance you receive does not come close to the level of sin you confess? That difference is precisely God’s mercy. It is difficult to understand for those who have never experienced it. But, to those who have…

Before you speak with her again, you might take a moment to invoke the Holy Spirit upon your words. He never fails-only we do.

Still praying for your sister.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

What your sister is doing is looking for a group of people that fit into her new morals. Most of us don’t like it when we can’t have it our way.

I have a different take. I don’t think this is about doctrine or morals. I think it is about emotion. It is understandable that folks displace their disappointment, anger, and distrust onto the nearest authority figure. Since the Church is everywhere, we take the lion’s share of this.

Whether it is the Church Who is targetted or someone else, the point is that that all that disappointment, anger, and distrust has to be dealt with.

Stop explaining Church doctrine to your sister. Try to be kind and supportive and to be an example of Christian love and power in her life. If you can get her some emotional guidance in the form of professional help or a support group, all the better.

And this is not to say that her situation is in any way her fault. It is to say that life has damaged her and it would be a good idea to fix the damage so that she can move on in confidence and in joy. God bless you both.

 

[cecilia97]

That’s a bad thread title, but I’m not sure what else to say. Or where to say it.

My sister got divorced a year or so ago. Since then she’s been doing a non-denominational bible study, going to a non-denom worship service, and basically turning away from the church. I think a lot of what she’s doing is because of her divorce and what the church’s stance on divorce is, that she felt disserted by the church during her divorce, etc. (her words not mine) She’s basically been looking for God elsewhere.

I’ve been working on her the past few months trying to make her see that what she’s doing is foolish and that she’s throwing away her faith, the heritage our parents gave us and what was handed down throughout our family’s history. Trying to explain the church to her, help her understand.

Hi thomas,

A a woman who divorced last year maybe I can give you something like her perspective on this. Not to say that leaving the church is right, but here’s what I see as some of her reasoning.

1. she might be feeling a big urge to change a lot in her life. She’s feeling a sense of freedom and wanting to try new things.
2. the church can indeed do things that lead newly divorced Catholics to feel left out, shunned, or just not supported. Even if she is not in a new relationship, she might have the mistaken belief that she cannot receieve Communion. A lot of churches seem to be centered around married fainlies with kids, too, so she may not feel there is a place for her. The “singles” group is too scary when you’re just divorced, and the “young adults” group is just laughable.
3. Realize that losing a marriage to divorce leads to grieving that is just as deep as if she had lost her husband to death. She needs support now, that’s why she’s drawn to her new church group. Give her all the support you can.
4. Realize also that, even without religion coming into it, divorce does leave one with a LOT of guilt. If she has mistaken ideas about the church or experienced some snippy remarks from well-meaning Cahtolics, that’s only making her feel MORE guilty. The statements about your parents spinning in their graves are just making her feel more guilty. People will do anything to get away from bad feelings…we put more energy into that than we do into actually getting the stuff that’s good for us. Guilt could be making her run away faster! Don’t use guilt on her, please.
5. Her divorce has also left her with relatively low self-esteem. Being rejected by your mate can leave one feeling unattractive, stupid, naive, easily fooled, unlovable, etc. At one year from the actual divorce, she’s just starting to deal with those things now. If her new church group welcomed her with open arms, they gave her just what she was looking for…acceptance. She needs that from you too.

Here’s some suggestions that you may take or leave:

There’s a program called Beginning Experience that might be helpful, it’s run by clergy and laity adn addresses divorce healing. www.beginningexperience.org. My diocese also has one called RSVP…check your diocese website for family ministry or bereavement ministries, or encourage her to do so. I’d say stay away from “Divorce Care” which is run at a lot of evangelical churches and ignores Catholic teachings.

Invite her to Adoration with you and don’t preach while you experience it together. Try to use actions instead of words. Express that you know she’s had a lot going on and ask what you can do to help her. You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet for her.

Invite her to your parish Octoberfest this year and buy her a beer. Introduce her to some nice folks and don’t tell anyone she’s divorced. She’s trying to forge a new identity that doesn’t include the bad stuff from last year. She’s trying to learn how to stand on her own feet again as a single woman.

If she’s not already in counseling, maybe gently suggest that…but don’t bring it up during a religious discussion! Counseling has helped me so much, divorcees really take a hit on the old self-esteem and it’s OK to ask for help getting it back.

Praying for you both.