My Sister is Mormon....

[mfbukowski]

Sure. Join the church, get a recommend, come in.

Oh, by the way, can I go take communion with you? May I enter the confessional and be absolved of my sins by a priest who listens?

Or do I also have to do a couple of things first?

 

[mfbukowski]

Tell you what: you go to Microsoft and ask one of the top level people there to borrow his or her copy of the company safety/operations manual for a few days to read, and see what THAT answer will be.

Perfect analogy!

 

[mfbukowski]

The manual in question does not discuss doctrine. It discusses things like who sustains a deacon in the aaronic priesthood or which stake officer participates in certain meetings. No doctrine really at all. Who sustains an elder’s quorum counselor - Does the ward mission leader attend the priesthood executive committee meeting? (yes- there I revealed the “secret contents”- yawn)

It would be quite boring reading for you, honestly. You probably wouldn’t understand most of the jargon anyway. It is boring reading for a mormon, and is really a reference manual for proceedures. It would be more boring for a Catholic. – about like the description of serving mass I posted elsewhere on this thread.

 

[mfbukowski]

Rebecca, I’m 59 years old. This course that I sent you to has the same information as the one I took in the seventies, and the same as the one my parents took in the 60’s. It has been around for a very long time. So unless you are in your very spry nineties, it was available.

True. I am 60 and was endowed in 1980 - the lessons have not changed. I have manuals dating to the mid 80’s with the same lessons essentially in them.

 

[mfbukowski]

False analogy. Can you get a manual in which it explains the proper way to say mass and hear a confession? Or who hears disputes between priests and how they should be disciplined? I’d love to see one of those. Or the proper way for a bishop to interact with a cardinal and under what conditions?

 

[mfbukowski]

But that is exactly what is in the manual.

 

[mfbukowski]

Sister Mayweather .

Hey- you are from So Cal and you don’t call her sister Garcia?

 

[mfbukowski]

No way, not in the manual. Prove it. CFR big time. Prove it.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

False analogy. Can you get a manual in which it explains the proper way to say mass and hear a confession? Or who hears disputes between priests and how they should be disciplined? I’d love to see one of those. Or the proper way for a bishop to interact with a cardinal and under what conditions?

You can start with the GIRM: General Instruction of the Roman Missal. It has everything about how the Mass is celebrated, liturgically, in the Roman Rite.

(Most of us American Catholics are Roman Rite Catholics)

You can download a copy on the US Bishops site.

As to “proper way for a bishop to interact with a cardinal:” well, if you were Catholic you would know that ALL cardinals are bishops, so you would look to the Canon Law and See of St Peter’s for information on this.

As to mormon temple practices: isn’t the Masonic rites a good place to start??

Robert

 

[mfbukowski]

The Sacrament of Reconciliation is sacred but not a secret. Even though you insist a temple ceremony is not a secret it seems it is by definition.* Secret - not open or public; kept private or not revealed; “a secret formula”; “secret ingredients”; “secret talks”. *In Catholicism, I can’t think of anything sacred that is kept secret for that reason.
I have been involved with initiations where I promised to keep the script and symbols a secret. The initiation was not sacred by a long shot. Sacredness may be the reason given for a temple ceremony being secret but it doesn’t make sense.

Is your intimate relationship with your wife secret? Or sacred? I would not reveal any details of mine, yet I would not call it “secret”. It is deeply personal and nobody’s business. The revelations we receive in the temple are also deeply personal and sacred.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

I see mormons I know in town in Mass on occasion. No one checks for “Catholic Membership Cards” at the door.

I have seen some of them at the Cathedral in Sacramento, too.

Yet, it is “tragically ironic” [to quote Miss Irony Dianaiad] that my friends will not let me attend any mormon ‘ceremony’ in the local temple.

Mormons are a secretive sort: and therein lies the distrust and scepticism of Christians when discussing the major differences in our two faiths.

Robert

 

[mfbukowski]

Baloney. You went straight for the jugular.

 

[mfbukowski]

You can start with the GIRM: General Instruction of the Roman Missal. It has everything about how the Mass is celebrated, liturgically, in the Roman Rite.

(Most of us American Catholics are Roman Rite Catholics)

You can download a copy on the US Bishops site.

Cool. Where is that site? I am surprised I don’t need a password. I really would like to see that.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Cool. Where is that site? I am surprised I don’t need a password. I really would like to see that.

www.usccb.org/liturgy/girm

There you go.

Robert

 

[mfbukowski]

I see mormons I know in town in Mass on occasion. No one checks for “Catholic Membership Cards” at the door.

I have seen some of them at the Cathedral in Sacramento, too.

Yet, it is “tragically ironic” [to quote Miss Irony Dianaiad] that my friends will not let me attend any mormon ‘ceremony’ in the local temple.

Mormons are a secretive sort: and therein lies the distrust and scepticism of Christians when discussing the major differences in our two faiths.

Robert

Great. So I can take communion in Sacramento too? That seems unusual.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Great. So I can take communion in Sacramento too? That seems unusual.

None of my friends have every approached the altar for the Eucharist.

To do so would demonstrate their extreme disdain and hubris for Christian belief. It would be tantamount to me playing basketball in a mormon stake building.

Robert

 

[mfbukowski]

www.usccb.org/liturgy/girm

There you go.

Robert

Thanks. This will be a valuable resource. I have questions already. Why is the thing you put over the chalice called a “veil”? Is it analogus to the communion rail and altar screens? It is interesting that the precious blood is kept behind a “veil”.

But this is not like the manual we are discussing. The manual is a proceedural thing. This is definitely doctrinal but it includes some description. Not the same by a long shot.

But thanks. It will be a good resource.

 

[mfbukowski]

None of my friends have every approached the altar for the Eucharist.

To do so would demonstrate their extreme disdain and hubris for Christian belief. It would be tantamount to me playing basketball in a mormon stake building.

Robert

Hey - we do that ever Tuesday. Really. Want to stop by? PM me and we can set it up if you are ever in So Cal.

So it sounds like you are not Catholic? Or are you saying that your friends are not?

Why are non catholics not allowed to take communion? We allow non-mormons to take the sacrament

Sounds kind of unfair, don’t you think?

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

But this is not like the manual we are discussing. The manual is a proceedural thing. This is definitely doctrinal but it includes some description. Not the same by a long shot.

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Hey - we do that ever Tuesday. Really. Want to stop by? PM me and we can set it up if you are ever in So Cal.

So it sounds like you are not Catholic? Or are you saying that your friends are not?

I am from Southern California (GO ANGELS). Boyd Jensen and I were friends throughout Law School at Pepperdine, Malibu. His dad is a big something or other with your church.

I am VERY familiar with mormonism. And yes, I am a Catholic.

The Holy Eucharist becomes so (with the wine) upon the epiclesis from the priest-celebrant. That priest has received his Orders from a Bishop who received his Orders from a Bishop back to Whozzit in the 1st century. That is Apostolic Succession.

Without it, the bread and the wine DO NOT become the Body and Blood of Christ.

That has been taught in the Church (both Catholic and Orthodox) for about 20 centuries.

What others do is a mere memorial, there is no changing of the bread and wine into the Body and the Blood of Christ.

That is the difference, my friend.

Sure it’s not fair: it’s what Jesus taught His Disciples (our first Bishops who taught their successors who taught their successors, and so forth).

When things aren’t fair or to our liking, some of us start our own religions.

Robert