My son-atheist, denied holy spirit

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Vulneris

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Please help me! I don’t know what to do. I’ve been a Catholic my entire life and so has my wife. We have a 17 year old son, Jeremy, who has recently denounced our faith. I understand that teenagers are rebellious, but then he denied the holy spirit.

The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. Matthew 12:31

He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. Mark 3:29

My wife and I have prayed for him every night; his faith is always in our prayers. He even refuses to go to church now. I just don’t know what to do. I’ve sat down and talked to him, but he refuses to listen. He just doesn’t seem to be aware that his soul is endanger, and his entire life after this life in the mix.

He just sits there and calls out the “contradictions” of the Bible, and telling me there is no God. Jeremy told me he got all this from this website. evilbible.com/ Written by some blasphemous woman.

Please, please help me. I am at a loss at what to do.
 
That’s not blasphemy toward the Holy Spirit. So don’t worry about that bit.

As for Biblical contradictions, tell him to pick out a few contradictions in the Bible, post them here. Say 5? Then after we prove him wrong, see what he says.
 
To put your mind at ease, I think what the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit means is to continually deny the action of the Holy Spirit, it’s not simply saying or thinking “I deny the Holy Spirit”, the continuous denial or repentance throughout life is what the blasphemy is I believe, so pretty much upto death where the person has had a chance to accept the Holy Spirit, it’s a conscious decision, where the person rejects the Spirit of their own free will KNOWING the action of the Holy Spirit
 
I tend to agree with the others… I would continue praying but I would also insist on mass if he lives in your house…
 
Vulneris said:
Please help me! I don’t know what to do. I’ve been a Catholic my entire life and so has my wife. We have a 17 year old son, Jeremy, who has recently denounced our faith. I understand that teenagers are rebellious, but then he denied the holy spirit.

The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. Matthew 12:31

He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. Mark 3:29

My wife and I have prayed for him every night; his faith is always in our prayers. He even refuses to go to church now. I just don’t know what to do. I’ve sat down and talked to him, but he refuses to listen. He just doesn’t seem to be aware that his soul is endanger, and his entire life after this life in the mix.

He just sits there and calls out the “contradictions” of the Bible, and telling me there is no God. Jeremy told me he got all this from this website. evilbible.com/ Written by some blasphemous woman.

Please, please help me. I am at a loss at what to do.
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Ask him if he thinks the Catholic Church hasn’t seen these supposed contradictions before, and whether there might be an explanation that some idiot on the internet could have missed.

Have him watch Lee Strobel’s movie, *The Case for Christ. *I suppose you can be respectful about it but I would tie the kid’s ears up in knots for acting like such a stupid jerk.
 
Hmm, thank you. Done a bit for putting my mind at ease. There’s a few he keeps coming to me with.
  1. Why would God allow all this evil to be in the world? If He’s made the world, and evil is in it, doesn’t that make God evil?
  2. How can a perfect being feel human emotions, jealous God, vengeful God, how can he be so petty?
  3. How can a perfect being create imperfect things?
  4. I forgot to mention, he’s also a big follower of Zeitgeist. youtube.com/watch?v=CNkthC-yWYU&feature=related is the first part of it.
  5. And here’s the last one which I find most troubling. After
    Telling me that God is evil, for what He’s done, that he would follow Satan before the Lord.

    I have taken him to mass, but he just sits in a sulk while we’re there.
edit: I’ve got to admit, that Zeitgeist movie raises some dangerous points.
 
I’ve had lots of experience with the human beings over at evilbible.

You as parents need to get two books, read them they will give you an idea of what you are up against. Dawkins IS god over at evil bible.

Answering the New Atheism: Dismantling Dawkins’ Case Against God by Scott Hahn and Benjamin Wiker

What’s So Great about Christianity by Dinesh D Souza

It is also important that he talk with knowledgable Catholics who are not emotionally involved. Does he have a youth minister or a Priest he respects?

I’m sending you a PM.
 
If I can get him in a good mood, then maybe. Thank you, I’ll read those books.
 
Vulnerius,

It must be a difficult time for your family. I am assuming that his objections lead him to conclude that there is no God, is that true?

But take heart! First of all, I think you ought to acknowledge (to yourself, at least, not necessarily to your son) that it seems that what motivates him is desire for Truth. That is a good sign. He seems to want to reject religion and God because they seem untrue. That desire for Truth comes from God, whether he recognizes it or not. And it shows integrity.

Its much better to be a philosophical atheist, who objects to religion on the basis of truth, than to be a practical atheist, who acknowledges God, but lives as if He doesn’t exist.

So now you have to build on his integrity and his desire for Truth. I’ll offer a few ideas in response to your above list.
Vulneris said:
  1. Why would God allow all this evil to be in the world? If He’s made the world, and evil is in it, doesn’t that make God evil?
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This might be an easy one. Ask your son to imagine for a moment that there is a God. Would your son still reject Him? Most likely he will answer yes, because of the reasons listed above (i.e. God does “unfair” things). But God doesn’t stop your son from rejecting Him, does He? But surely rejecting God is not something God wants, so why doesn’t He stop your son?

Because your son has freedom.

I think your son might see where this is going by this point. What if your son didn’t reject God, but instead wanted to steal a car? Same thing, right? God would let him. Now escalate it – some people want to do worse things. Many people want to do bad things. Most people end up doing wrong things. And even when people aren’t doing evil, bad, or wrong things, we are all doing our own thing – and that generates conflict, pain, sorrow, winners. . . and losers. . . and keeps ER doctors in business.
Vulneris said:
  1. How can a perfect being create imperfect things?
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Why not? The limitation on being is that something can’t make something else greater in perfection than itself. But something can make things that are *less *perfect than itself. We make things all the time that are less perfect than ourselves. Our creations can never rise to the level of perfection that we have – life, intellect, willpower, creativity, etc.

VC
 
Forgive me Lord for playing the devil’s advocate. I’ll try and take his side on this. (I just realized what a pun that was)!

He tends to come back at me with saying that, well, even if God gave us free will, He still knew exactly how it would all play out, since he is all knowing, and if he’s all knowing, there is no such thing as free will. To be able to divine the future is a refutation that free will even exists in the first place. If God is all knowing, and created EVERYTHING, then His plan for everything included people making evil decisions… Now, honestly, I don’t know how to counter that. I can’t say “Well I have faith” because that isn’t an answer, and he demands answers.

I do like what you said about his search for the Truth, I will bring that up with him after I’m better versed in arguing my points.

The whole “God can’t make anything imperfect, because He’s Perfect.” Jeremy will describe God as this giant machine, perfect in every way. Imagine say, a giant coin minting machine, and He mints out every coin. How could He, this perfect machine, create an imperfect coin?

I think I can sort of handle him on that. Since I don’t think his analogy is correct. God is more like a baker. He can make the perfect cake if He wants to, or He can make one not so perfect. (Though imperfection was Adam and Eve’s fault, but then he just goes back the free will issue.)

And yes, it’s a rough time for my wife and I. God will help us through these tribulations, though, He always has.
 
Vulneris said:
He tends to come back at me with saying that, well, even if God gave us free will, He still knew exactly how it would all play out, since he is all knowing, and if he’s all knowing, there is no such thing as free will. To be able to divine the future is a refutation that free will even exists in the first place. If God is all knowing, and created EVERYTHING, then His plan for everything included people making evil decisions… Now, honestly, I don’t know how to counter that.
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First, let’s acknowledge that the problem of evil, and the problem of free will in the face of God’s knowledge, aren’t easy questions, and have been discussed quite a bit throughout human history.

One approach to take would be to focus on the supposition that if God is all knowing than there is no such thing as free-will. Why must that be the case?

We sometimes know what someone is going to do before they do it, if we know them well enough, but that doesn’t make them do it. Perhaps your son will say that we are never certain, like God is, about what someone is going to do, and it is that certainty that creates the problem. But our lack of certainty is a just a defect in our knowledge, not in the person’s free will.

Has your son seen the movie Back to the Future II? When Biff gets a hold of the sports almanac from the future, does that somehow cause the various sports teams to play the way they played? Or rather, does Biff know what they chose to do, and how they chose to play.

See the difference? Our problem is that we don’t know what someone chose. But because God doesn’t exist in our timeline – isn’t limited by time – He can know what someone already chose.

**We don’t choose to do things **because **God knows what we will choose, rather God knows what we will choose, because that is what, in fact, we chose.

That might help?
VC
 
Oooh, that’s a lovely way of putting it. I really love it, and Back to the Future is our favorite movie of all time. (Mine anyway, Jeremy enjoys it, though)
I hope that’s enough to convince his 17 year old mind. I don’t think I’m up for a debate about free will with him, because I can’t do it. Maybe after I read some of those books I’ll be able to, but not before.

Though, would you say, that the free will thing comes down to a matter of opinion? I’m sure both sides give very compelling evidence, but it just boils down to what you think and believe, right?

It’s like two opposing forces, but neither can really gain anymore ground on each other, so they both just grind against each other until Judgement Day. So, is it a pick and choose? I hate to classify myself as sort of an “unthinking” Catholic, but I feel I am.
I have read some philosophy, and considered lots of it, but all within the parameters that God exists, and I think that’s why I’m having so much trouble with Jeremy.

I’ll read those books, and thank you all very much for you support. God Bless.
 
Vulneris said:
Oooh, that’s a lovely way of putting it. I really love it, and Back to the Future is our favorite movie of all time. (Mine anyway, Jeremy enjoys it, though)
I hope that’s enough to convince his 17 year old mind. I don’t think I’m up for a debate about free will with him, because I can’t do it. Maybe after I read some of those books I’ll be able to, but not before.

Though, would you say, that the free will thing comes down to a matter of opinion? I’m sure both sides give very compelling evidence, but it just boils down to what you think and believe, right?

It’s like two opposing forces, but neither can really gain anymore ground on each other, so they both just grind against each other until Judgement Day. So, is it a pick and choose? I hate to classify myself as sort of an “unthinking” Catholic, but I feel I am.
I have read some philosophy, and considered lots of it, but all within the parameters that God exists, and I think that’s why I’m having so much trouble with Jeremy.

I’ll read those books, and thank you all very much for you support. God Bless.
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As a parent whose child had her share of sullen moments, I suggest that Jeremy’s questions are common to many people. They are legitimate questions and deserve answers. The problem is not in the questions, the problem is that he is acting like a sullen snot and that you think it’s OK for him to act like that.

You are dealing with two different things. You need to manage the attitude before you can get expect to deal with his questions.
 
I think he’s watching all of those shows on TV that have the sullen antihero/atheist and is indentifying with those people, rather than Jesus. I know, he is acting like a sullen snot, but it’s very hard to regulate behavior at this age. Either going to have to hope he grows out of it or find some way to really make a punishment that hurts. (Not physically, I dont beat, but you know what I mean)

I might try threatening him with the military, I can do that! Forge his signature on an army sign up sheet and threaten to send it in. He’d get a kick out of that in a few years, if he didn’t end up actually going to Iraq.
 
Vulneris said:
Please help me! I don’t know what to do. I’ve been a Catholic my entire life and so has my wife. We have a 17 year old son, Jeremy, who has recently denounced our faith. I understand that teenagers are rebellious, but then he denied the holy spirit.

The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. Matthew 12:31

He that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation. Mark 3:29

My wife and I have prayed for him every night; his faith is always in our prayers. He even refuses to go to church now. I just don’t know what to do. I’ve sat down and talked to him, but he refuses to listen. He just doesn’t seem to be aware that his soul is endanger, and his entire life after this life in the mix.

He just sits there and calls out the “contradictions” of the Bible, and telling me there is no God. Jeremy told me he got all this from this website. evilbible.com/ Written by some blasphemous woman.

Please, please help me. I am at a loss at what to do.
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I don’t know if this will help, but this website refutes each “contradiction” from evilbible.com, point by point.

I will pray for you and your son.
 
Vulneris said:
I think he’s watching all of those shows on TV that have the sullen antihero/atheist and is indentifying with those people, rather than Jesus. I know, he is acting like a sullen snot, but it’s very hard to regulate behavior at this age. Either going to have to hope he grows out of it or find some way to really make a punishment that hurts. (Not physically, I dont beat, but you know what I mean)

I might try threatening him with the military, I can do that! Forge his signature on an army sign up sheet and threaten to send it in. He’d get a kick out of that in a few years, if he didn’t end up actually going to Iraq.
Click to expand...
Not a good idea - he could end up an Iraq casualty.
 
Wow what an opportunity to learn how to defend your faith. You can’t control his behavior but you can control how you react to him.
He’s rocking the boat, thats his job.
He’s testing you, again his job.
He’s not going to continue to be Catholic just because you said so, and good for him. We all need to question our faith,it’s how we learn.
He needs to know why …

Start with the basics. Explain how in college, students have to learn about the book,when it was written,who wrote it, and why before they even open the book. We should do the same with the Bible. The Church wrote the New Testament and we need to look to her for it’s meaning.Because if the Bible looks like it’s contradicting itself then the problem is with us. So go to the Catechism…

CHAPTER TWO
GOD COMES TO MEET MAN
from the Catechism of the Catholic Church
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect1chpt2.shtml#art3

**110 **
In order to discover the sacred authors’ intention, **the reader must take into account the conditions of their time and culture, the literary genres in use at that time, and the modes of feeling, speaking, and narrating then current. **"For the fact is that truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing, in prophetical and poetical texts, and in other forms of literary expression."76

The senses of Scripture

**115 **
According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between **two senses **of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral, and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.

**116 **
The **literal sense **is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: "All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal."83

**117 **
The spiritual sense. Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
  1. The allegorical sense. We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
  2. The moral sense. The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written "for our instruction."85
  3. The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge, “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86
also learn about the history
Catacombs of Rome
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catacombs_of_Rome

God Bless your family on this journey.
 
I can’t but to begin to understand what a terrible time this must be for you. I myself am a single parent with two beautiful daughters. Amanda and Christina. My oldest Amanda started up the same type of thing that is happening to you with your son Jeremy.
What I did, Vulneris, was started bringing her to Mass. I have noticed a great deal in change with her and her views on the Holy Spirit. Perhaps, if you hadn’t already, should try doing this. It may help a great deal.
 
Thank you, I will try that. I think I’ll try and get him involved in a youth group at our church. I think if he’s around kids his age who are faithful, he’ll feel compelled to join in. Not just out of peer pressure, but they might convince him it’s not just a bunch of old farts running the show, but intelligent young men and women are apart of this great Faith, too.
 
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