My son is Struggling with the Concept of Free Will and an all know God

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As many times as I try to explain, my explanations are not enough. He is reading Milton’s “Dante’s Inferno” and has come up with a theology question that I cannot satisfy.

Can you help me come up with other ways to explain how God can know all that we do and will do, yet we still have free will. I have explained the part of God not being trapped by our world’s concept of time, and he says he understands that (but I don’t think he fully understands or accepts that.) We have explained how we have free will to give us the freedom to choose love…but he can’t accept the concepts two together. 🤷

Can any of you help me with new ideas and explanations? We plan on bringing him to a local priest (pray my DH doesn’t put it on the back burner!!) but would love to have some help until that appointment is made.

thanks much!!
 
Hi MomaMary8, Here is a talk by Dr. Peter Kreeft, a professor of philosophy at Boston College. It is called Fated and Free, hopefully it will answer your son’s questions. God Bless.
 
The simple answer is that if you truly love someone, as God loves us, you would never force them to live without free will, even if that means they might turn away from you or do evil for a while!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
 
kib said:
Hi MomaMary8, Here is a talk by Dr. Peter Kreeft, a professor of philosophy at Boston College. It is called Fated and Free, hopefully it will answer your son’s questions. God Bless.
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Thank you! I love Peter Kreeft and can’t believe I didn’t think to look in that direction. An audio is wonderful for 17 yo who wants deep answers, quickly!
Mark77 said:
The simple answer is that if you truly love someone, as God loves us, you would never force them to live without free will, even if that means they might turn away from you or do evil for a while!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!

mark
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thank you, but I’m afraid that is not satisfying my son’s thirst 😊
What can I say, he’s 17 and feels as if he is on the cusp of knowing it all. He already knows more than his parents lol 😉 😛
 
MomaMary8 said:
Thank you! I love Peter Kreeft and can’t believe I didn’t think to look in that direction. An audio is wonderful for 17 yo who wants deep answers, quickly!

thank you, but I’m afraid that is not satisfying my son’s thirst 😊
What can I say, he’s 17 and feels as if he is on the cusp of knowing it all. He already knows more than his parents lol 😉 😛
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Here is one of the plainest explanations I have read, without getting into deep theological discussion.
elvisman said:
The "NOW" for God is our forever. He is not constrained by time as we are. If your name is written in the Book of Life at some point in YOUR life later one - it always was with God. This is not predestination. WE are responsible for the choices we make - NOT God.

Here is another analogy:
God sees everything that has ever happened as a finished painting. Those in past history HAVE painted it - WE, who are alive now ARE painting it - and those in the future WILL paint it. However, since God is not constrained by time - he sees it ALL NOW.
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Does he see how he is utilizing his free will in this instance? He is reasoning his own way through this maze we call faith. He will continue to question and reason for himself. The answers or conclusions he draws will move him in the direction of his choices. And later, if he has not landed on the truth, hopefully he will change directions.

If he wants to except fate he must give up thinking for himself. Because there is no point in it, if one is just going to land where the wind blows.
 
As you explained God is outside of time & has access to a view & knowledge beyond our comprehension. Free will means being able to choose the best course, the best action etc in Love with no compunction to choose a lesser Good or even a evil course or action etc…

God as noted above has an all encompassing view of time & our place within it. God is also able to view us & our choices throughout the range of time that is our existence. However, He does not & has not made any of those “Choices” for us.

It’s somewhat analogous to viewing a novel. You can see the created characters, you can view all the aspects of their lives/roles, but you can not force the Characters to do what is right to to your liking. The results are determined by the story/plot & the choices & actions taken by the characters.

In God’s Case, He creates the Characters, & places them in motion & interaction with the other characters, he allows those characters to live & choose their paths, actions, etc. Each Character in turn interacts with others and completes his/her story. You/I get to view only that portion of the Great Novel that we are in with some details from the preceding acts. God, however can view the Whole Novel of Man, any page, any age, any character. But he does not Compel any Character.

We are free to choose the path, the actions, the loves we embrace.
God will view them & judge us by them. but they are OUR Choices.

Hope this helps.
GB & Good Luck, as you note, he is 17 going on omniscient. 🙂
 
Why can’t God CHOOSE not to know what choice we will make?

How can God know everything, yet we have free-will is an extremely difficult concept. So is “can God make a rock so big even He can’t lift it?” - the answer is "sure, if He chooses to. Basically, remember that God has free-will as well.

I think the following link may help as well
How should a Catholic reply to the question, “have you been saved?”
 
“the answer is "sure, if He chooses to.”

Really? Then he is not all powerful?

Gd can not change who they are or their nature. To change would end the eternal “I AM”
It is Gd’s “eternal goodness” that keeps Them from creating anything that would destroy every thing. Just as in They did not create evil. They did create beings capable of doing evil, hence, choice.
 
God’s omnipotence works something like this, and I realize that this is an odd analogy:

Think of God as an NFL official who is also a football commentator for ESPN. It is the end of the season, and the Super Bowl is over. God is giving a report on the season in review.

Since all the games have been played, God knows every score, every play, and the outcome of every down. He knows who caught the ball, and who failed to make a tackle. He can analyze every aspect, or watch it in slow motion. God has knowledge of everything that happened that season.

As an NFL official, God also constructed the rules of the game. He picked the people who would officiate, and used the “instant replay” when necessary to overturn a few bad decisions, in order to make sure that the rules that he set came out the way they were intended.

Now, that said, God did not actually interfere in any of the plays, nor did he play the game for the people. Each coach, and player could have made any decision they chose. In a given situation, a quarterback could have opted to run the ball, make a pass, take a knee, or, heaven forbid, even throw the game. God did not make any of these decisions. He granted the players free will to play however they desired. This, however, does not in any way impact the fact that God still knows what happened, since it’s the end of the season, nor does it change the fact that God provided the rules to the game.

Eternity is a difficult concept, and it works a bit like that. Imagine God sitting at the end of time looking back at everything that has happened and knowing the outcome. He was able to construct rules… a plan… but still give us free will. It is a daunting concept to wrap one’s mind around.
 
Yes, this is a difficult concept, especially for a teenager trying to make sense of everything. I’m giving him the links one by one. He listened to Peter Kreeft this afternoon. I’ve encouraged him to continue to search for answers, but to trust in God while he is still searching.

A few prayers for a struggling teenager would be appreciated. I hated being 17! :o

Thank you everyone!
 
MomaMary8 said:
snip

What can I say, he’s 17 and feels as if he is on the cusp of knowing it all. He already knows more than his parents lol 😉 😛
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“When I was 16, I thought my father was the dumbest person in the world. When I turned 25, I was amazed how much the old man had learned.” --paraphrasing Mark Twain 😃

This is the third thread recently on this subject. I have refrained from commenting on the previous two, but I will toss a comment out here.

I am not God (nor do I play him on TV 😛 ), and I am not omniscient. But their have been times when my sons were small (they are in their 30s now), and we got into situations when I knew in advance exactly what they were going to do, and they did it! However, my knowing what they were going to do did not cancel out the fact that they did what they did of their own free will.

I may be insensitive and unsympathetic, but I don’t see a problem at all with the simultaneous existence of God’s omniscience and our free will. God, from his eternal (outside-the-timestream) perspective can see what we, of our own free will, choose to do. Where’s the problem?

DaveBj
 
I don’t really see the conflict between omniscience and free will.

Look at it this way: you’ve known Mary since you were both young children. Every time it’s rained, excepting when Mary is sick or otherwise detained, she has gone outside for at least a few minutes. It rains. You know Mary is going to go outside, you can even call her later and ask for confirmation (You were right! Give yourself a pat on the back!), but you didn’t make her go outside.

Of course that’s not really a very good example, but it’s the best I can do. 🙂
 
DaveBj said:
“When I was 16, I thought my father was the dumbest person in the world. When I turned 25, I was amazed how much the old man had learned.” --paraphrasing Mark Twain 😃

This is the third thread recently on this subject. I have refrained from commenting on the previous two, but I will toss a comment out here.

I am not God (nor do I play him on TV 😛 ), and I am not omniscient. But their have been times when my sons were small (they are in their 30s now), and we got into situations when I knew in advance exactly what they were going to do, and they did it! However, my knowing what they were going to do did not cancel out the fact that they did what they did of their own free will.

I may be insensitive and unsympathetic, but I don’t see a problem at all with the simultaneous existence of God’s omniscience and our free will. God, from his eternal (outside-the-timestream) perspective can see what we, of our own free will, choose to do. Where’s the problem?

DaveBj
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thank you for your anology. They were not sufficient for my son. Perhaps he tends to ponder things in a different way than you? 🤷

I did a search for this topic previous to posting, but did not find one. I apologize for repeating a topic.
PlipPlop said:
I don’t really see the conflict between omniscience and free will.

Look at it this way: you’ve known Mary since you were both young children. Every time it’s rained, excepting when Mary is sick or otherwise detained, she has gone outside for at least a few minutes. It rains. You know Mary is going to go outside, you can even call her later and ask for confirmation (You were right! Give yourself a pat on the back!), but you didn’t make her go outside.

Of course that’s not really a very good example, but it’s the best I can do. 🙂
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thank you for your anology 🙂
 
Human beings exist in a linear timeframe: there was yesterday, then today, then tomorrow. We have free will to make our own choices. God sees the choices we make.

But God does not exist in a linear timeframe. He sees yesterday, and today, and tomorrow, and all the choices we freely make, all at once. To him, they are not past, present, and future. They are all now for him. He can observe what we freely do while knowing the outcome (for him, knowing the outcome as present not as future). His knowledge does not impinge on our will.
 
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