My son's girlfriend

[maryjk]

Is there no point at which a parent should hold their ground when the subject is the killing of young and/or unborn human beings? The conventional wisdom which emerged above was that I might well ruin the relationship with my son and my future d.i.L. would choose to ignore me altogether leaving me a lonely old man (particularly since we have only the one child).

But this isn’t what you say you are going to do. You aren’t holding your ground. You sound here like you are picking the fight. In fact, you plan to bring it up, if she doesn’t. And we needn’t worry, you can handle yourself very well.

Eventually it will come up or I will bring it up before they are engaged. I have been in plenty of abortion discussions and debates and I believe I can handle myself very well - in terms of effectiveness and politeness. It is a hill I will die on and even refuse her as a potential daughter in-law.

How can I do otherwise? Should I do otherwise? Our grandchildren are at stake.

So this is the hill you plan to die on. You said it right here. Which means what? If she doesn’t totally agree with you, then you are going to tell her to get lost? Or tell your son to tell her to get lost?

 

[Xantippe]

“Eventually it will come up or I will bring it up before they are engaged. I have been in plenty of abortion discussions and debates and I believe I can handle myself very well - in terms of effectiveness and politeness. It is a hill I will die on and even refuse her as a potential daughter in-law.”

Do you see yourself winning this one? Really? How often does a well-adjusted 25-year-old man dump a girlfriend of two years tenure just because his dad said so?

“How can I do otherwise? Should I do otherwise? Our grandchildren are at stake.”

Exactly. If you botch this, you will wreck your relationship with your son, his girlfriend (possible future wife) and your future grandchildren and you will be the one who suffers most.

Just out of curiosity, what does your wife think about the situation?

 

[Efrasios]

Make a novena to Padre Pio. Pray, hope and don’t worry and all will be fine!

 

[Winters]

“Is there no point at which a parent should hold their ground when the subject is the killing of young and/or unborn human beings?”

If your son, being a full-grown adult, hasn’t assimilated your point of view by now, you are never going to argue him into it. Have you ever put your fingers in a pair of Chinese handcuffs? The more you fight it, the more tightly you are trapped. Likewise, with arguing with relatives–the more we fight, the less likely we are to win.

I think a lot of us are probably looking at your situation, having experienced bad in-law situations. In-laws who think that it’s up to them to have us jump through hoops, refuse to accept us, won’t speak to us, think that we’re never good enough as husbands or wives or parents, constantly criticize, treat us like gum on the bottom of their shoe, etc. It’s a very tricky thing being a good in-law.

Thanks, Xantippe, I don’t disagree with anything you are saying. In these matters, my son is mostly more conservative than I am and it is a very good relationship besides. One does not have to practice Catholicism to defend our right to life.

By experience, I know when sex is involved, the more irrational path is often taken. Yes, those would be their mistakes to make.

I also have lessons-learned from in-law relationships. I wish my mother-in-law had been straightforward and told me she was pro-choice long before she did - it caused a lot of difficulties and suffering. Even still, I have a good relationship with her now and I am most thankful that my son has a very special relationship with her.

The in-law thing is seldom easy but for many of us the right-to-life issue is in a special category that is quite different from “he came from the wrong side of town” or “he’s only a plumber” or “look at his table manners”. In the extreme pro-choice cases where abortion is tantamount to murder, I think my decision to withhold a requested “blessing” would be the only justified path and I would have to accept all the sufferings that would come with it. Thank God that for my son’s case this path is extremely unlikely or even impossible. (BTW, the “blessing” is still an important part of some cultures and we are not quite middle-American")

So, if you can trust a lout like me to handle myself responsibly, perhaps you can see my point that being upfront and clear, in a loving way, can be what we are called to do.

Peace.

 

[chevalier]

Actually he is forcing his decisions on his son, when he says in the OP he suggests he will refuse the girlfriend as a daughter in law.

No, he will not be preventing his son from making the decision. He will simply refuse to ratify that decision, there is a difference.

You have a very limited frame of reference to the situation in this thread, as you have never married and never have dealt with inlaw situations.

That gets said to priests and unmarried theologians all the time too.

You have never experienced the rejection of an potential inlaw or an actual inlaw after the marriage, or an inlaw undermining a marriage.

And how the heck do you know that I haven’t? (Apart from the fact that I actually have.)

I’m not reading things that weren’t written. You can’t see the situation beyond your limited experience.

If anything is limited here, it’s your ability to stick with what’s written, understand it and address it on its own merits without inserting conjecture.

Boy, what I monster I’ve become!

That’s modern liberalism to you: if you don’t hasten to offer unconditional affirmation of whatever decisions others make you’re an intolerant authoritarian hater. Welcome to 21st century, where calm logic has no hold.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

That’s modern liberalism to you: if you don’t hasten to offer unconditional affirmation of whatever decisions others make you’re an intolerant authoritarian hater. Welcome to 21st century, where calm logic has no hold.

Well this is out of character for you. No one is saying that he must affirm all of his son’s choices unconditionally or he’s a “hater”. Most people on this thread agree, and most of them are decidedly not liberal. What we are saying, calmly and logically at that, is that it is absolutely not his place to probe his son’s girlfriend for information on her political views just because him and his wife have gotten hints that she might be a liberal. That’s not his place, it’s none of his business, and frankly to intentionally try to ruin his son’s relationship over her personal views on abortion is bad parenting.

 

[Winters]

Well this is out of character for you. No one is saying that he must affirm all of his son’s choices unconditionally or he’s a “hater”. Most people on this thread agree, and most of them are decidedly not liberal. What we are saying, calmly and logically at that, is that it is absolutely not his place to probe his son’s girlfriend for information on her political views just because him and his wife have gotten hints that she might be a liberal. That’s not his place, it’s none of his business, and frankly to intentionally try to ruin his son’s relationship over her personal views on abortion is bad parenting.

Good evening BlueEyedLady, if you will kindly and carefully re-read my prior posts and my posting herein you will discern that this is not about me probing the young lady’s political views.

I have been deceived more than once by certain people who claimed they were “pro-life” or “would never kill a baby” and just the opposite was true and the consequences were most regrettable.

My fears that the young lady was brainwashed into thinking that human beings have no right-to-life got the best of me and I have learned from these exchanges that I need to respect where she is coming from.

But you must appreciate the premise of this thread if we are to do more than talk past each other - that premise being this: the Catholic church teaches that abortion is intrinsically evil and can be tantamount to murder. You may not agree with this teaching, but it should be clear to the most casual of observers that it is a key premise of this thread. If you would care to discuss the abortion issue itself with me, then let’s start a new thread.

Would you have me shut-up if the child in question was a daughter and her boyfriend advocated that in certain situations a husband could and should beat his wife? (and don’t claim this is unrealistic, we know too many wife-beaters who thought that “he would never beat me”).

Should I be indifferent if the potential spouse says the n-word repeatedly but my child is so in love he/she can’t see past their intimacy? (outrageous? - certainly, but so is partial birth abortion).

Given the facts of this particular situation, I don’t think I would ever bring up the topic as I suggested earlier. But given the factors I have shared in earlier posts, it is unlikely NOT to be brought to me.

I will be cautious but I will not deny that we human beings have a right to life. Fifty million is just too many.

 

[Xantippe]

“I have been deceived more than once by certain people who claimed they were “pro-life” or “would never kill a baby” and just the opposite was true and the consequences were most regrettable.”

If mere words won’t tell you whether or not a person is capable of abortion (and I think you are quite right about that), what is the point of interrogating her? Some people are verbally pro-life and yet would have or enable an abortion, while others are verbally pro-choice, yet would never have an abortion. That makes it genuinely very difficult to sort out the sheep from the goats. As somebody once said, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

I would venture here that the key is to never willingly put oneself in a position where abortion would be a temptation, where it would represent the easy way out. That’s certainly a subject for conversation with your son.

 

[57thDimension]

No one is saying that he must affirm all of his son’s choices unconditionally or he’s a “hater”.

Did Chevalier say or imply that? Why the quotes around the word ‘hater’?

Most people on this thread agree

Appeal to consensus. Whether it’s agreed on by one person or everyone, it doesn’t affect the truth of a statement or validity of an argument.

and most of them are decidedly not liberal.

One need not be a liberal to endorse a liberal idea, especially if it is disguised as something else - it is certainly the case (and possibility) that a conservative may endorse a liberal idea. The political spectrum is just that, a spectrum.

Beyond that, I’m curious how you determined that most people in this thread are “decidedly not liberal.”

+Sebastian