My struggle with my wife on tubal ligation and such!

[anrmenchaca47]

I would like to know something but before I do, let me explain…

My wife is STILL dead set on getting a tubal ligation AND expects me to get a vasectomy. Of course me being the idiot I tell her that I STILL* wouldn’t *do it. So later she says to me that all she wanted to hear from me is that I would do anything for her(which means that I would do the vasectomy)and not that she actually wanted me to do it but rather she just wanted reassurance that I would go at lengths for her. NOW I am a man who cannot keep his word and never will. So how in the WORLD was I supposed to know that she wanted me to say this?

Now question

Will I go to hell if I do this vasectomy knowing that there will be no domestic peace between she and I?

 

[Schieffelin]

Ask your wife if she would mutilate her body for you just to prove that she will do anything for you. That is so twisted. We don’t do abhorrent things just because someone we love asks us to.

I am sorry you’re going through this. I will pray for you.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I would like to know something but before I do, let me explain…

My wife is STILL dead set on getting a tubal ligation AND expects me to get a vasectomy. Of course me being the idiot I tell her that I STILL* wouldn’t *do it. So later she says to me that all she wanted to hear from me is that I would do anything for her(which means that I would do the vasectomy)and not that she actually wanted me to do it but rather she just wanted reassurance that I would go at lengths for her. NOW I am a man who cannot keep his word and never will. So how in the WORLD was I supposed to know that she wanted me to say this?

Now question

Will I go to hell if I do this vasectomy knowing that there will be no domestic peace between she and I?

The unhealthy dynamic between you and your wife outlined in this post is far beyond the scope of an online forum. You and your wife need intensive counseling to address communication strategies, trust and manipulation issues. You also need to sit down with a priest with pastoral acumen, who can explain to both of you why surgical sterilization is immoral, why it’s immoral to expect a spouse to do something immoral, and outline Church-approved methods for spacing children.

My prayers are with you. From what you’ve said, you have a long row to hoe here.

 

[1ke]

You need to talk to your priest for pastoral guidance. Your wife sounds completely unreasonable as well as manipulative. Clearly there is something serious going on in your marriage and I don’t think sterilization is the real problem, it is likely a symptom.

No, you cannot sin. You know it is wrong. Vasectomy is a grave sin against God’s commandments.

You cannot stop her from sinning, but you are responsible for *yourself *before God.

 

[anrmenchaca47]

The unhealthy dynamic between you and your wife outlined in this post is far beyond the scope of an online forum. You and your wife need intensive counseling to address communication strategies, trust and manipulation issues. You also need to sit down with a priest with pastoral acumen, who can explain to both of you why surgical sterilization is immoral, why it’s immoral to expect a spouse to do something immoral, and outline Church-approved methods for spacing children.

My prayers are with you. From what you’ve said, you have a long row to hoe here.

I kinda left some stuff out…Her decision was based on the fact the she has injuries that she sustained from an accident and sports related. Always needing chiropractic care. This pregnancy shes going through is really putting her body through alot. And Im not talking about what a woman feels through the pregnancy, but rather this pregnancy has amplified the injuries 10 fold and it is really hard on her. I have tried to convince otherwise but she feels that this tubal ligation is the only way to prevent further pregnancies because of her injuries.I’m still not gonna get a vasectomy, but just the mere thought of just saying yes to her and not actually doing it was something that frustrated me because I wasn’t aware that this is what she wanted me to answer.I have no one to talk to about this and going to a priest will more than likely make things harder between us because she’ll feel that I’m still “forcing” her to NFP.I will always love her, but just hearing her say that I cannot keep my word really bugs me.

 

[The_Bucket]

Maybe you could suggest that you try and fix her back issues permanently as opposed to seeing chiropractors who don’t really repair anything. Might as well go to a sports massage therapist for all the good chiropractors do.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

I would like to know something but before I do, let me explain…

My wife is STILL dead set on getting a tubal ligation AND expects me to get a vasectomy. Of course me being the idiot I tell her that I STILL* wouldn’t *do it. So later she says to me that all she wanted to hear from me is that I would do anything for her(which means that I would do the vasectomy)and not that she actually wanted me to do it but rather she just wanted reassurance that I would go at lengths for her. NOW I am a man who cannot keep his word and never will. So how in the WORLD was I supposed to know that she wanted me to say this?

Now question

Will I go to hell if I do this vasectomy knowing that there will be no domestic peace between she and I?

I am confused, did you say at one point that you would get a Vasectomy? (And if you did, you still shouldn’t get one, but you are responsible for explaining why you said yes and won’t do it.)

 

[Myqyl]

Perhaps if you explained your priorities to her… That you would gladly put her wants and needs before your own and that you would be willing to prove that. But that you put God’s wants and needs before both yours AND hers…

Ask if she can accept that… My guess is that if you ask it correctly, she will be ok with it and you will be out of the doghouse… For a day or two at least

 

[anrmenchaca47]

I am confused, did you say at one point that you would get a Vasectomy? (And if you did, you still shouldn’t get one, but you are responsible for explaining why you said yes and won’t do it.)

yes I did…I also said that this was what my wife wanted to hear and not that she really wanted me to get one…I know…i have to play guessing with her…and because of this…I am seen as a hypocrite and a person that will never keep his word. The reason she says this is because there was one point where I DID opt to get the vasectomy…but I felt the Holy Spirit tell me NOT to get it…and I mentioned this to her a few years back. Well we ended up getting pregnant this year and she proceeds to ask me again, **as if the guidance of the Holy Spirit was just temporary. **Well lo and behold I told her several times that i WOULD NOT get a vasectomy. So again, today, she asks me, but with the premise that she wanted to only hear me say it… I know this may seem confusing…but this is what happened.

 

[JRKH]

I agree with others that this requires some deep and long term discussion with a good spiritual councilor.

On the face of your OP, her view is highly manipulative and terribly short sighted and coupled with the fact that she didn’t “speak” what she was really “asking” and then is upset because you answered what she spoke instead of what she meant only complicates the matter.
I would suggest that your sort of “turn the tables” on her. Explain to her that when she asked you if you would get a vasectomy she was really asking, "Are you are willing to turn your back on God and be condemned to hell for all eternity by committing what you know to be a mortal sin???
Because when she asks if you would get a vasectomy for her - THAT is what she is asking.

Of course in your followup post you provide some additional info that can definitely be effecting her thinking. Pregnancy is messing with her hormones, and pain will exacerbate that. She may be saying things that she really doesn’t mean and would not ever say if it weren’t her current condition.

So - Dig deep my friend and find that Love for her that will allow you to stay true to your faith and also to Love her through this pregnancy. Soon you will both be holding a brand new, beautiful life in your arms. A precious gift from the almighty. Her attitudes might change significantly after she gives birth.

At least enough to get you off the hook…

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

yes I did…I also said that this was what my wife wanted to hear and not that she really wanted me to get one…I know…i have to play guessing with her…and because of this…I am seen as a hypocrite and a person that will never keep his word. The reason she says this is because there was one point where I DID opt to get the vasectomy…but I felt the Holy Spirit tell me NOT to get it…and I mentioned this to her a few years back. Well we ended up getting pregnant this year and she proceeds to ask me again, as if the guidance of the Holy Spirit was just temporary. Well lo and behold I told her several times that i WOULD NOT get a vasectomy. So again, today, she asks me, but with the premise that she wanted to only hear me say it… I know this may seem confusing…but this is what happened.

I said this in my post above but it is worth repeating two words here

RAGING HORMONES

Peace
James

 

[Danuska]

So later she says to me that all she wanted to hear from me is that I would do anything for her(which means that I would do the vasectomy

What about her doing anything for you, like respecting your beliefs etc? To me this looks like emotional blackmail.

 

[chris138]

Perhaps if you explained your priorities to her… That you would gladly put her wants and needs before your own and that you would be willing to prove that. But that you put God’s wants and needs before both yours AND hers…

Ask if she can accept that… My guess is that if you ask it correctly, she will be ok with it and you will be out of the doghouse… For a day or two at least

Also maybe this is a conversation that is best left for after pregnancy and hormones are back to normal. I wanted to name my daughter, pain, because I was so miserable towards the end of my pregnancy(her name is Olivia, thanks to her father being the one to fill out the paperwork). We can be a little unreasonalbe when our hormones are going crazy and we are in alot of pain as it sounds like your wife is experiencing. I don’t think anyone should make a decision that is permanent when they are in the midst of a difficult pregnancy.

I am sure that when she is reasonable she would not expect you to go against the churches teaching on this. True love for a spouse is helping them get to heaven and doing what we can to assist in that. NFP is as effective as any ABC to prevent/delay pregnancy if it is necessary for your wifes health. I too hope that she is seeing a medical doctor as well for these issues. Good luck, this too shall pass, and you will have a precious son or daughter.

 

[fm1982]

Your situation sounds similar to mine in that my wife has demanded that I get a vasectomy and has accused me of all sorts of nasty things for not doing it. When I explained that it is not the way to avoid pregnancy and that is not acceptable, doesn’t respect our bodies, marriage or God, I was told that was a “load of (insert synonym for poop here)” and that “I don’t believe in that”. When I told her that I did believe in that and that we were married in the Church and I was under the understanding that we were trying to follow Church teachings in doing so, she responds that she doesn’t care about any of that anymore. She truly is lost.

She then suggested a tubal for herself and a vasectomy for me. I explained again how that was not right, but that I ultimately couldn’t control what she does and that if she chose that it was her choice. She told me that it wasn’t good enough, that I was choosing the life of a baby over her life, that she would resent me forever if I didn’t get it done and she did. She told me that it was a sign that I wanted to have more babies (we have 4 and in all honesty under better circumstances I would have more even though I do the bulk of the work both working and in the home - but she expects me to not feel any loss, to jump up and click my heels at the thought of no more children).

When I suggested to her that not getting a vasectomy was more of a leash than anything else, she didn’t even care about that. I mentioned that without a vasectomy if I did cheat (which I never would), there could be someone knocking on my door 9 months later asking for money, whereas if I did get it done, what was stopping me from sleeping around (really another consequence of the lack of respect for our reproductive capabilities is cheating, I know not everyone does, but I would think it makes it much easier since there’s no responsibility attached)? That didn’t go so well, so maybe stay away from it.

A bit of a ramble I know. I understand where you are coming from and the challenge that it is. The way I see it in my relationship is that it is part of a “power” struggle, where she used to exert control by saying “do this or no more babies” and now has to say “vasectomy or else”. It is not a healthy relationship by any means and we are currently working with counselors, to work on things.

If your wife is demanding this of you, I would agree with the others who say this goes beyond what can be solved here. It does become a question of values. Doing it to please your wife will do more harm than good in your relationship. If your wife demands and receives this from you, what’s next? Where does the bar go from here? Ultimately you can’t control what she does, and if she is that dead set against another pregnancy and the tubal is all she will accept, then it is her choice after you discuss it with her.

Your last question about hell and domestic peace, the way I see is that it is a much, much bigger issue than vasectomy or not… at least in my case, but I would hazard a guess and say the same about yours. I could get a vasectomy tomorrow, but I can guarantee you that it is a high price to pay for a short period of domestic peace. Appeasement doesn’t work, never really has. Today it is this, tomorrow what will it be? If she can get you to go against the Holy Spirit’s guidance in the name of domestic peace, you are no longer an equal as her husband, but a slave bound to do what she wants when she wants. Man can have only one master, and in a marriage that master should be God and everything else will be taken care of after that.

Sometimes a war is necessary before there is peace in the land. Unfortunately for me, it seems quite clear now that there will have to be a war, one fought on an unequal footing, since “everyone” says she is right and I’m the only one who is wrong, old fashioned and doesn’t care about her.

Good luck, I hope that after the baby is born things settle down in your world and you are able to resolve this peacefully while still staying true to your conscience.

 

[Nicko]

This perplexes me.

As someone who “doesn’t believe in that stuff”, I can sympathise with her feeling on this matter.

I cannot, however, agree with her use of emotional blackmail as a negotiation tool. She is the one who has altered her position, not you. The fact that I personally agree with her new position is neither here nor there. Marriage is a parnership and yours was based - from the outset - on certain clearly defined principles. Now she thinks she can unilaterally alter the ground rules, using tactics that I find abhorrent.

I do not envy you your current dilemma.

 

[RedSoxWife]

I kinda left some stuff out…Her decision was based on the fact the she has injuries that she sustained from an accident and sports related. Always needing chiropractic care. This pregnancy shes going through is really putting her body through alot. And Im not talking about what a woman feels through the pregnancy, but rather this pregnancy has amplified the injuries 10 fold and it is really hard on her. I have tried to convince otherwise but she feels that this tubal ligation is the only way to prevent further pregnancies because of her injuries.I’m still not gonna get a vasectomy, but just the mere thought of just saying yes to her and not actually doing it was something that frustrated me because I wasn’t aware that this is what she wanted me to answer.I have no one to talk to about this and going to a priest will more than likely make things harder between us because she’ll feel that I’m still “forcing” her to NFP.I will always love her, but just hearing her say that I cannot keep my word really bugs me.

Has she tried anything other than chiropractic care for her injuries?

I had a college sports injury and was told that it would always be incredibly painful for me, if I were to try to have children. In my case, miraculously, that somehow did not happen.

I received chiropractic care (I know it works for a lot of people) and it made my situation much worse. In my case it was just time (three years) and not the numerous medical interventions I had, that healed the injury (a ruptured disk).

But I would try seeing a doctor who specializes in her problem first, if she hasn’t already.

And then start making decisions (obviously without sinning) when she’s not pregnant. Pregnancy hormones don’t help long term decision making. Can you ask her to wait until after she’s pregnant and discuss this again? I always hated how my old OB would always ask if I wanted a tubal after I gave birth when my DH was out of the room. I don’t think it’s nice, even on a secular level, to ask women to make these decisions when they’re gigantically pregnant and uncomfortable.

 

[The_Bucket]

Aside from being absurdly rude, from a financial perspective I can’t understand why doctors would ask their patients if they want to be sterilized. More kids means more deliveries and more business for them!

 

[RedSoxWife]

Aside from being absurdly rude, from a financial perspective I can’t understand why doctors would ask their patients if they want to be sterilized. More kids means more deliveries and more business for them!

I always found it to be incredibly offensive (and my husband found it to be even more so). I felt like they were waiting until he was out of the room to see if I’d go for it without him there. And since I’d already made my views clear repeatedly over the course of two pregnancies it was especially bothersome.

More disturbing is that it was at a “Catholic” hospital. Although I’ve heard that they lost their “Catholic” status recently on the news.

 

[The_Bucket]

I gather the interactions with doctors can not be fun for Catholic women in some cases. I recall that when we found out about our daughter, just months after our son was born very prematurely, the first OB my wife visited immediately asked if she wanted an abortion. That was just breathtaking. Literally.

Now as we ponder having a third, my wife is nervous about a consult before we do our part. Personally I want to make sure that she’s healthy as our son was born under very dangerous circumstances for both him and my wife and my wife had to take blood thinning shots throughout her pregnancy with our daughter. So that was fun.

She’s not nervous that it won’t turn out to be fine (I want the bases covered for my own sanity, it was scary enough nearly losing both my wife and son) but is nervous about the doc’s reaction to hearing we want more kids. I hate hearing that her past experiences with doctors who are supposed to be helping her bring more children into the world can be so unnerving to women who refuse to go along with the contraceptive mentality we have today. And in my wife’s case, had she gone along with that mentality, she could have stroked out. So good job on the doctors for you know, doing due diligence and ensuring their patients aren’t at risk for those kinds of complications.

 

[aloe]

It is probably hard for her to make a clear informed long thought out decision since she is in a lot of pain that she can’t treat and has a lot of fears fueled by all the extra hormones during pregnancy.