My talk with a Mormon

[Adamski]

Yesterday I asked a client who was Mormon if he could tell me some things about his faith that was different than the Catholic Church and he told me the following

1-the lds church follows the laws of the country unlike the Catholic Church

2-there are three distinct different God’s the father son and Holy Spirit

3-the bible is not the word of God because it has been corrupted, the pearl of great price is the word of God

4-the lds church values the life of a mother over an unborn child

5- because you can except the chance for salvation after you are dead the lds doesn’t evangelize where they aren’t wanted like china

6-babies go to heaven not purgatory

7- marriage is required for the highest level of heaven

8-polygamy is still ok if it isn’t against the law and is encouraged in other countries were it is legal

I am paraphrasing here but is about what he said

I told him I could except the lds faith because there was no proof that the bible was in error for the original and the 1800 year history in his faith. Along with the fact I really didn’t see any need for a profit at the time of joesph smith

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Did he cite which U.S. laws the Church allegedly didn’t follow?

 

[SteveVH]

Did he cite which U.S. laws the Church allegedly didn’t follow?

Not wishing to contribute to “health care” that includes abortion and contraception comes to mind. The laws of God are more important to us than the laws of men.

 

[Hockeygurl]

Next time you should ask him how many Mormon presidents continued to practice polygamy secretly after it was declared illegal. ???

 

[WD615]

1-the lds church follows the laws of the country unlike the Catholic Church

Not sure what he’s getting at here. Or how that’s a good thing.

4-the lds church values the life of a mother over an unborn child

Seem’s like he’s just saying the LDS values abortion.

5- because you can except the chance for salvation after you are dead the lds doesn’t evangelize where they aren’t wanted like china
. . . .
7- marriage is required for the highest level of heaven

Sounds like some great reasons not to become Mormon to me.

 

[NeuroTypical]

Hi Adamski,

1-the lds church follows the laws of the country unlike the Catholic Church

The only possible guess I could have at what he’s talking about, is the LDS church does not have the concept of “the confessional seal” when it comes to child abuse, and a bishop or stake president will follow the laws of the land in regards to mandatory reporting. In my understanding, when a Catholic priest hears someone confess to child abuse, he will under no circumstances break the confessional seal and report the person - even in states with mandatory reporting laws which are clearly written to include clergy.

But other than that, as far as I know, Catholics are as law-abiding as the next guy over.

2-there are three distinct different God’s the father son and Holy Spirit

Yep - you guys have a Trinity, we have a Godhead. Not the same thing.

3-the bible is not the word of God because it has been corrupted, the pearl of great price is the word of God

You misheard, or this guy doesn’t know his own doctrine. LDS Article of Faith #8: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly”

4-the lds church values the life of a mother over an unborn child

From what I understand, Catholics have a “no abortion, not ever, never” policy. Mormons have a “no abortion, not ever, except in cases of rape or incest, and then it’s still not advised, but no condemnation will fall on you if you chose one” policy.

5- because you can except the chance for salvation after you are dead the lds doesn’t evangelize where they aren’t wanted like china

I’m not impressed with this mormon’s knowledge. You’d think you could find something like that on the church’s official website mormonsandchina.org/.

6-babies go to heaven not purgatory

Mormons don’t really use the word ‘purgatory’. We figure after you die, you go to either spirit prison or paradise, and then a final judgement, and then heaven or hell. We figure babies, who die while incapable of sin or atoning or accepting Christ, do indeed go to heaven.

7- marriage is required for the highest level of heaven

Yep.

8-polygamy is still ok if it isn’t against the law and is encouraged in other countries were it is legal

Ok, now I know either you’re mishearing, or this guy shouldn’t be trusted. Do Mormons practice polygamy?

In this dispensation, the Lord commanded some of the early Saints to practice plural marriage. The Prophet Joseph Smith and those closest to him, including Brigham Young and Heber C. Kimball, were challenged by this command, but they obeyed it. Church leaders regulated the practice. Those entering into it had to be authorized to do so, and the marriages had to be performed through the sealing power of the priesthood. In 1890, President Wilford Woodruff received a revelation that the leaders of the Church should cease teaching the practice of plural marriage (Official Declaration 1).

Folks here on this board can give you all the salacious jucy gossip about the difficulties mormons had in ridding themselves of the practice after the revelation to stop it. Looks like Hockeygurl already started - I’m sure others will follow.

 

[Marie5890]

NT’s explanations reflect what was my understanding when I was LDS a couple of decades ago.

Hi Adamski,

The only possible guess I could have at what he’s talking about, is the LDS church does not have the concept of “the confessional seal” when it comes to child abuse, and a bishop or stake president will follow the laws of the land in regards to mandatory reporting.

As far as I know, Catholics are as law-abiding as the next guy over.

Yep - you guys have a Trinity, we have a Godhead. Not the same thing.

You misheard, or this guy doesn’t know his own doctrine. LDS Article of Faith #8: “We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly”

From what I understand, Catholics have a “no abortion, not ever, never” policy. Mormons have a “no abortion, not ever, except in cases of rape or incest, and then it’s still not advised, but no condemnation will fall on you if you chose one” policy.

I’m not impressed with this mormon’s knowledge. You’d think you could find something like that on the church’s official website mormonsandchina.org/.

Mormons don’t really use the word ‘purgatory’. We figure after you die, you go to either spirit prison or paradise, and then a final judgement, and then heaven or hell. We figure babies, who die while incapable of sin or atoning or accepting Christ, do indeed go to heaven.

Yep.

Ok, now I know either you’re mishearing, or this guy shouldn’t be trusted. Do Mormons practice polygamy?

Folks here on this board can give you all the salacious jucy gossip about the difficulties mormons had in ridding themselves of the practice after the revelation to stop it. Looks like Hockeygurl already started - I’m sure others will follow.

 

[iepuras]

1-the lds church follows the laws of the country unlike the Catholic Church

Except for all the state laws against bigamy that Joseph Smith and other polygamists broke before the US passed anti-polygamy laws. They were practicing polygamy in Illinois where bigamy was against the law. And laws against inciting riots and destroying private property (Nauvoo Expositor).

And what about all those polygamous marriages that were performed after the 1890 manifesto?

2-there are three distinct different God’s the father son and Holy Spirit

At least he is being honest about being a polytheist.

4-the lds church values the life of a mother over an unborn child

Because killing an innocent person to save another is perfectly ok.

6-babies go to heaven not purgatory

Where in the Catechism does it say this? I totally missed this in RCIA. Maybe your Mormon friend can point that out for me.

7- marriage is required for the highest level of heaven

See point #6. So babies go to heaven but not the highest level of heaven. Doesn’t seem quite fair to me either unless Mormons start arranging eternal marriages for their babies. Also, I guess all those holy priests and nuns who never married are just out of luck too even if they do accept Mormon baptism after death.

8-polygamy is still ok if it isn’t against the law and is encouraged in other countries were it is legal

I know men who are “sealed” (married for time and eternity) in the Mormon temple to more than one living woman in the U.S. where polygamy is illegal. Of course, he has a civil divorce from the first wife and is only legally married to the second wife, but in the eyes of Heavenly Father, they are still married for time and all eternity. I didn’t know that the LDS allowed polygamy in Nigeria and other countries where it is legal. That’s news to this former Mormon. I’ll have to ask my very Mormon family about that. Maybe that changed at a recent General Conference that I didn’t pay attention to.

 

[EasterBeagle]

Lighthouse Catholic Media audio on this topic:

lighthousecatholicmedia.org/store/title/from-mormon-missionary-to-the-catholic-faith#

 

[twopekinguys]

Hi Adamski,

The only possible guess I could have at what he’s talking about, is the LDS church does not have the concept of “the confessional seal” when it comes to child abuse, and a bishop or stake president will follow the laws of the land in regards to mandatory reporting. In my understanding, when a Catholic priest hears someone confess to child abuse, he will under no circumstances break the confessional seal and report the person - even in states with mandatory reporting laws which are clearly written to include clergy.

But other than that, as far as I know, Catholics are as law-abiding as the next guy over.

Sorry to disagree here, but, there have been numerous cases where in fact mormon bishops, etc. have notnot has not reported such abuse.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

2-there are three distinct different God’s the father son and Holy Spirit

3-the bible is not the word of God because it has been corrupted, the pearl of great price is the word of God

4-the lds church values the life of a mother over an unborn child

5- because you can except the chance for salvation after you are dead the lds doesn’t evangelize where they aren’t wanted like china

6-babies go to heaven not purgatory

7- marriage is required for the highest level of heaven

8-polygamy is still ok if it isn’t against the law and is encouraged in other countries were it is legal

I told him I could except the lds faith because there was no proof that the bible was in error for the original and the 1800 year history in his faith. Along with the fact I really didn’t see any need for a profit at the time of joseph smith

1. ?
2. Yes, LDS is polytheistic and does not believe in the Christian Trinity.
3. Yes, LDS teaches that the Bible and Christianity are false.
4. Shame on anyone who supports the murder of children.
5. The word is “accept.”
6. The Catholic Church does not teach that babies go to purgatory.
7. The LDS do teach this, very contrary to the Christian Bible.
8. Yes, top LDS still hope for the resumption of polygamy.

The correct words are “accept” and “prophet.”

 

[Sabacthani]

Yesterday I asked a client who was Mormon if he could tell me some things about his faith that was different than the Catholic Church and he told me the following

1-the lds church follows the laws of the country unlike the Catholic Church

2-there are three distinct different God’s the father son and Holy Spirit

3-the bible is not the word of God because it has been corrupted, the pearl of great price is the word of God

4-the lds church values the life of a mother over an unborn child

5- because you can except the chance for salvation after you are dead the lds doesn’t evangelize where they aren’t wanted like china

6-babies go to heaven not purgatory

7- marriage is required for the highest level of heaven

8-polygamy is still ok if it isn’t against the law and is encouraged in other countries were it is legal

I am paraphrasing here but is about what he said

I told him I could except the lds faith because there was no proof that the bible was in error for the original and the 1800 year history in his faith. Along with the fact I really didn’t see any need for a profit at the time of joesph smith

Not much of a Mormon.

#1 Catholics are law abiding too, AFAIK.

#2, their book of Mormon says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are One God. Not “gods.” But yes the Mormon godhead is a different concept from the Catholic/Protestant Trinity.

#3: the Mormon articles of faith says that the Bible is the word of God as far as translated correctly.

#6: the Catholic Church does NOT teach that babies go to purgatory.

#8: the Mormon church does NOT allow polygamy in countries where it is legal. I know Mormon missionaries in such countries and they aren’t allowed to baptize a man who is married to more than one woman, period.

Are you sure it wasn’t a “fundamentalist Mormon” you talked to?

 

[Sabacthani]

Because killing an innocent person to save another is perfectly ok.

What’s worse in your eyes, believing that abortion is not always murder, or actually having an abortion?

Mormons have fewer abortions, and proportionately fewer.

What’s more important to you, actually reducing the numbers of abortion or having people who get them shamed from the pulpit?

 

[iepuras]

#2, their book of Mormon says that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are One God. Not “gods.” But yes the Mormon godhead is a different concept from the Catholic/Protestant Trinity.

The Book of Mormon teachings on God are more Trinitarian (or Binitarian) than the current teachings of the LDS church on the godhead. When Joseph Smith started out, his teachings were more Trinitarian but they changed over time to polytheism. Current teachings on the godhead are more clearly spelled out in the Doctrine & Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. There were some modifications made to the 1830 edition of the BOM that made it more in line with current church teachings on the godhead, but there are still sections that are pretty Trinitarian (e.g., Abinidi’s sermon to King Noah in the book of Mosiah).

 

[iepuras]

What’s worse in your eyes, believing that abortion is not always murder, or actually having an abortion?

Mormons have fewer abortions, and proportionately fewer.

What’s more important to you, actually reducing the numbers of abortion or having people who get them shamed from the pulpit?

Why are you putting words in my mouth (or on my keyboard since this is the internet)?

Please show me where I stated that a belief is more sinful than an action or that public shaming is better than quietly working to reduce the numbers of abortions.

When I was LDS, I never saw or experienced anyone actually work to reduce abortion or help women in crisis pregnancies outside of LDS Social Services. I am sure LDS Social Services has helped some, but from the many stories I have heard from people who have dealt with them, they are a mixed bag. However, I witnessed plenty of public shaming in the LDS church, including an LDS bishop telling a friend that she could not be forgiven of fornication unless she put her baby up for adoption.

 

[Stephen168]

What’s worse in your eyes, believing that abortion is not always murder, or actually having an abortion?

Mormons have fewer abortions, and proportionately fewer.

What’s more important to you, actually reducing the numbers of abortion or having people who get them shamed from the pulpit?

The Catholic Church has had zero abortions and teaches that murder is wrong all the time.
The Mormon Church has had zero abortions and teaches that murder can be OK.

Teaching that murder can be OK is worse than teaching that murder is always wrong.

 

[iepuras]

The Catholic Church has had zero abortions and teaches that murder is wrong all the time.
The Mormon Church has had zero abortions and teaches that murder can be OK.

Teaching that murder can be OK is worse than teaching that murder is always wrong.

Well said!

 

[Adamski]

He is a pretty all in kind of person when it comes to his lds faith. His mom is a confirmed catholic and left the faith on her own and joined the lds before she met his dad. Next time I see him I might tell him his mom could return to the Catholic Church any time she want she should just go to confession to receive the Eucharist

 

[zaffiroborant]

Also, confession to a mormon bishop, etc. is not a requirement or Sacrament. Confession to a Priest is required, and is Sacramental.

You are basically comparing apples to oranges here.

The other big difference is in discussing a confession, a Mormon bishop is in no way ever required to keep a confession to himself, the LDS church leaves him at liberty to discuss it with who ever he feels may beneficial in the situation. If he discusses it with his counselors and his wife he will suffer no repercussions and anyone he discusses it with is under no obligation to keep it quiet either. In contrast a catholic priest can not ever disclose what was said in confession to anyone ever without severe repercussions to himself.

 

[zaffiroborant]

What’s worse in your eyes, believing that abortion is not always murder, or actually having an abortion?

They are both equally horrific, at their base they are one and the same.