My Tattoo.

[xmydreamsfadex]

I’m a little dissapointed in some of the responses.

‘The saints didn’t, so you shouldn’t either’ is a bit silly.

First: Prove it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Second: So what? There was a time when no Saint had worn pants with pockets. Or pants, for that matter. Or eaten corn or potatoes [native to the new world]. We aren’t supposed to be living in a Roman Empire theme park, are we?

’Think what it will look like when you are older’– why? Is a non-tattooed 80 year old significantly more pleasant to look at?

to the statement in bold: i said that in my last post because i know a lot of people that have really great looking tattoos on their arms, stomachs, etc but when i look at my grand dad working outside with his shirt off i am horrified on what the peoples tattoo will look like at that age.

 

[xmydreamsfadex]

Good grief! Great logic Sam.

The saints never took cocaine, but that does not mean there is anything wrong with it.

You can change your pants. You can’t get rid of a permanent body engraving.

Who cares what an 80 year old looks like? Poll the ones who got tatoos and have had them 20 or 30 years and figure out what percent regret it.

The reason young people want to get tatoos is it is in. Everybody is doing, so I should join the parade. That is a stupid reason to do anything.

1. cocaine has been proven to be harmful.
2. you can get rid of tattoos (it’s just a long process and hurts really bad)
3. i know plenty of older people with tattoos and they are just like “ha, yeah… i got that when…” not really a regret. (in my experience though)
4. tattoos aren’t “in” per se. what is in is getting wasted and thinking “man, i should be like everyone else and get something tribal, oriental, whatever tattooed so i can be like everyone else.”
   i doubt most people actually think of something ORIGINAL to get, put a lot of thought into it, then get a tattoo. good thing for the jump-on-the-band-wagon types for the tattoo artists. they need work too!

 

[notsmart]

Hello agian!

I wonder why you won’t talk about what your doubts are?
You mention it, and I asked you but you don’t say what they are?

I don’t think this is about a tatto. It may be more than “skin deep” pardon the expression.

 

[scapularkid8]

Hello agian!

I wonder why you won’t talk about what your doubts are?
You mention it, and I asked you but you don’t say what they are?

I don’t think this is about a tatto. It may be more than “skin deep” pardon the expression.

Maybe this wording is more acceptable ( , and why must this be counsel-ed through on CAF? I’m coming to closure on this which is basically the point of me getting this tattoo ):

My recent doubts (or doubt rather) aren’t really doubts per se, but more of an ignorance in pride that I’m recently moving past. I’m seeing that I can’t work through my salvation or state of grace on my own. I have to completely rely on God’s Mercy…I don’t know about you guys, but I think this is a huge step in my Christian journey and relationship with Christ…

 

[notsmart]

Maybe this wording is more acceptable ( , and why must this be counsel-ed through on CAF? I’m coming to closure on this which is basically the point of me getting this tattoo ):

My recent doubts (or doubt rather) aren’t really doubts per se, but more of an ignorance in pride that I’m recently moving past. I’m seeing that I can’t work through my salvation or state of grace on my own. I have to completely rely on God’s Mercy…I don’t know about you guys, but I think this is a huge step in my Christian journey and relationship with Christ…

I think it is very profound. I do believe many saints have struggled with this same thing.

You are certianly blessed to have this happen to you.



Prayers for you, and for you to know that Jesus loves your humility more than you realize. From what I can see.
This is the stuff, that keeps us from him. Pride.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

A tattoo is art, and art per se isn’t evil. It can only be judged by the message it conveys: a good message, like mine-- a cross design from the Book of Kells-- or a bad one, like a demon skull.

Comparing any art to a drug that’s responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths doesn’t merit much of a response, IMO.

I think a public sign of the faith, far more personal and permanent than something merely worn on a chain, is a beautiful thing. One could make the case that real Christians should wear their faith proudly, permanently in their skins; removable jewelry is for wussies. But this is why I wish the OP were getting ink that’s identifiably Catholic, instead of an Arabic script that few will recognize.

My point about pants is this: there was a time [and for women, not that long ago] when pants were considered immodest and innappropriate for Christians. Happily, we outgrew such foolishness. [Side topic-- one of the charges against Joan of Arc was that she wore ‘mens clothing’-- ie, pants. Possibly the first female saint to have worn them, and also the last for a few centuries].

Someone had to be the first pants wearing saint, someone was the car driving saint, etc. A knee jerk reaction that ‘we don’t know of any saint to have had a tattoo so you shouldn’t either’ is silly. Given the number of martyrs in the far east and south pacific and the commonness of tattoo in those regions, I think this ship has probably already sailed.

As to 80 year olds, well… the tat won’t look any better than the skin it’s on, but I personally don’t find it relevant ‘con’ arguement. A shirtless senior isn’t generally a thing of beauty, inked or not.

 

[bpbasilphx]

As someone said, a tattoo might look cool when you’re young, but when you’re 40+ you look like an unemployed Tiltawhirl operator.

 

[notsmart]

In all fairness, if you have been glancing at the various threads here about say, Mary-
you will find that there are people who do tattoo themselves with marian images who are not very nice people to put it bluntly.
The public may not know about your personal piety, nor can they judge it from an outward sign.
Just like an employer wont judge you if you…
Get my drift?
In a perfect world, you should be able to do this.
In this IMPERFECT world, I would advise you not to do this.
Unless, everywhere you go, everything you say and do will be holy forever. No pressure at all.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

A tattoo is art, and art per se isn’t evil. It can only be judged by the message it conveys: a good message, like mine-- a cross design from the Book of Kells-- or a bad one, like a demon skull.

Comparing any art to a drug that’s responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths doesn’t merit much of a response, IMO.

I think a public sign of the faith, far more personal and permanent than something merely worn on a chain, is a beautiful thing. One could make the case that real Christians should wear their faith proudly, permanently in their skins; removable jewelry is for wussies. But this is why I wish the OP were getting ink that’s identifiably Catholic, instead of an Arabic script that few will recognize.

My point about pants is this: there was a time [and for women, not that long ago] when pants were considered immodest and innappropriate for Christians. Happily, we outgrew such foolishness. [Side topic-- one of the charges against Joan of Arc was that she wore ‘mens clothing’-- ie, pants. Possibly the first female saint to have worn them, and also the last for a few centuries].

Someone had to be the first pants wearing saint, someone was the car driving saint, etc. A knee jerk reaction that ‘we don’t know of any saint to have had a tattoo so you shouldn’t either’ is silly. Given the number of martyrs in the far east and south pacific and the commonness of tattoo in those regions, I think this ship has probably already sailed.

As to 80 year olds, well… the tat won’t look any better than the skin it’s on, but I personally don’t find it relevant ‘con’ arguement. A shirtless senior isn’t generally a thing of beauty, inked or not.

I remember an old Marshall McLuhan quote, “The medium is the message.” I think this applies to tattoos, whether of Christian symbols or not. That fact that you have a tattoo, especially a visible one, is a much more powerful message to prospective employers, customers, clients, etc. than the design of the tattoo.

St. Paul tells us, “Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? If any one destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and that temple you are.” (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

Would you write graffiti on the outside of a temple?

 

[Sam_Maloney]

That’s a pretty odd standard for bodily integrity for the culture that invented circumscision, don’t you think?

If you don’t understand the difference between art and vandalism, I’m afraid we aren’t likely to have a productive conversation.

 

[notsmart]

That’s a pretty odd standard for bodily integrity for the culture that invented circumscision, don’t you think?

If you don’t understand the difference between art and vandalism, I’m afraid we aren’t likely to have a productive conversation.

I am only wondering, how you can be so sure God does not see it as vandalism on is art.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

That’s a pretty odd standard for bodily integrity for the culture that invented circumscision, don’t you think?

If you don’t understand the difference between art and vandalism, I’m afraid we aren’t likely to have a productive conversation.

There was no “culture that invented circumcision.” It was a sign of the old covenant, instituted by God:

[9]And God said to Abraham, “As for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.
[10] This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your descendants after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised.
[11] You shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskins, and it shall be a sign of the covenant between me and you.
[12] He that is eight days old among you shall be circumcised; every male throughout your generations, whether born in your house, or bought with your money from any foreigner who is not of your offspring,
[13] both he that is born in your house and he that is bought with your money, shall be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.
[14] Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.” (Genesis 17:9-14)

It is an outward sign of the covenant between God and the descendants of Abraham. Has God commanded that we get tattoos as a sign of his new covenant? Did I miss the memo?

As for art and vandalism - isn’t defacing someone else’s property considered vandalism?

St. Paul tells us, “Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.” (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)

 

[Sam_Maloney]

Notsmart: I was a bit hasty in my last response, I was harsh, and I apologize.

I dispute, though, the the medium is the message in this context: tattoo is too common for that, these days. But even if it were part of the message, it isn’t the entirety: a cross is not a horned skull…

I find it very odd that mutilating your son’s genitals without his consent is supposed to glorify God, but if he has [say] a crucifix tattooed over his heart, he’s violating the body.

The cross on a Church doesn’t violate it, it defines it.

If tattoo is vandalism, are nose piercings? Lip or brow piercing?

Ear piercing? Shaving? Haircuts? Plastic surgery? ANY surgery? All these things interfere with ‘the temple’ we were born in. How do dare we interfere with God’s handiwork…

What basis [other than cultural prejudice] do we have for permitting one and denying the other?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I’m thinking of getting a tattoo. I see nothing wrong with it. In fact, I think if done properly could really glorify God. After all, artwork is only done on the most beautiful canvases and what more a compliment to God than use your body as a display of beauty? It’s not insulting Him, it’s magnifying His Wisdom in Creation.

I think it also depends on the content of the tattoo and intent. If you’re just doing it to impress yourself or someone then no. But I’m getting it for a spiritual reason. I’m overcoming a huge spiritual struggle and doubts so I’m getting the Jesus Prayer in Arabic on my right side on the ribs under the arm.

أيها الرب يسوع المسيح ابن الله, إرحمني أنا الخاطئ

Is my logic flawed in this? I know tattoos were outlawed by God in Leviticus, but that was because they were used in Pagan burial rituals and not in a context like I mentioned above, correct?

Why in Arabic?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

shhhh tarwater… they are trying to convince him otherwise.

my two cents: get a tattoo that means something to you. REALLY means something to you. think about where you are putting it and look at your grandfathers skin to see what you think it will look like at that age. think for at least a year before you get the ink done. don’t be like those girls who get something tribal on their lower backs to be trendy. that is lame, unoriginal and boring!

Like a present commercial, where the plastic surgeon says “so when you are marrying Mike,” when he sees the tattoo on her lower back, and she’s says “uh, Tom.” She’s looking for tattoo removal, and a “clean slate.” If Tom hasn’t wondered about who Mike is, I think there’s more than tattoo removal needed for a “clean slate.”

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I remember an old Marshall McLuhan quote, “The medium is the message.” I think this applies to tattoos, whether of Christian symbols or not. That fact that you have a tattoo, especially a visible one, is a much more powerful message to prospective employers, customers, clients, etc. than the design of the tattoo.

St. Paul tells us, “Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you? If any one destroys God’s temple, God will destroy him. For God’s temple is holy, and that temple you are.” (1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

Would you write graffiti on the outside of a temple?

One time a waitress saw my Cross tattoo on my wrist, and asked if I belonged to a gang.

“Yes,” I replied, “Christiantiy.”

 

[grandfather]

Maybe this wording is more acceptable ( , and why must this be counsel-ed through on CAF? I’m coming to closure on this which is basically the point of me getting this tattoo ):

My recent doubts (or doubt rather) aren’t really doubts per se, but more of an ignorance in pride that I’m recently moving past. I’m seeing that I can’t work through my salvation or state of grace on my own. I have to completely rely on God’s Mercy…I don’t know about you guys, but I think this is a huge step in my Christian journey and relationship with Christ…

Sounds like you are making this into a personal sacrament. Maybe there are eight instead of seven. Seal yourself in ink. Really, you think this is a religious act? You think that by dying your skin you have the power to bring grace to your soul? Thinking that getting a tatoo is an act of religion is crazy, totally ridiculous. Its all coming from you, not God. Be 100% certain God is not telling you or anyone to tatoo themselves with anything, much less some saying in Arabic. Good grief!

Go say your prayers, give alms, confess and be sorry for your sins, do penance, love your neighbor, visit the sick, those in prison, feed the hungry, grow in holiness. This will benefit you. These are declarations that matter. A tatoo is not. Those are the things that will bring increased grace into your soul. Do you think tatooing yourself will increase you in one drop more of divine grace in your soul? If it would then cover your whole body with them head to toe. This is not how grace works.

After people get one they want another one. That is the pattern. Why? The one did not fill the need they thought it would. If you put a few words on yourself somewhere, maybe putting a symbol somewhere else will complete the package and honor God and remind you of what you need to be reminded of more fully. It will make a more complete statement to you and God and the world that you are really committed to faith and your sins are behind you. Sure!

The human soul desires permanence. We crave it. This is programmed into us, into the core of our being. What is behind it is the longing for heaven, eternity. We want to say, there, it is finished, Jesus last words. We also crave beauty. This is also a longing for God.

We try to express these longings here on earth and satisfy them. We try to make things beautiful and permanent. But we can’t. Staining our hides is one way to try to do something permanent, something that can not be changed, something that is forever.

It is your soul that needs to be made beautiful for God and you can by God’s grace accomplish that. It is your soul that needs to be make pleasing to God. Dying your skin is useless. There is no grace to be had there. None, zero, zilch. Why bother!

The ink will not go deep enough. It will have no effect whatsoever on your soul. Whatever you are telling yourself, thinking that it will make you a better person, or holier, more pleasing to God, or change anything to help you on your journey is nothing but an illusion. Where do illusions come from? They never are inspirations from God.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Sounds like you are making this into a personal sacrament. Maybe there are eight instead of seven. Seal yourself in ink. Really, you think this is a religious act? You think that by dying your skin you have the power to bring grace to your soul? Thinking that getting a tatoo is an act of religion is crazy, totally ridiculous. Its all coming from you, not God. Be 100% certain God is not telling you or anyone to tatoo themselves with anything, much less some saying in Arabic. Good grief!

Why not in Arabic?

 

[scapularkid8]

Sounds like you are making this into a personal sacrament. Maybe there are eight instead of seven. Seal yourself in ink. Really, you think this is a religious act? You think that by dying your skin you have the power to bring grace to your soul? Thinking that getting a tatoo is an act of religion is crazy, totally ridiculous. Its all coming from you, not God. Be 100% certain God is not telling you or anyone to tatoo themselves with anything, much less some saying in Arabic. Good grief!

Go say your prayers, give alms, confess and be sorry for your sins, do penance, love your neighbor, visit the sick, those in prison, feed the hungry, grow in holiness. This will benefit you. These are declarations that matter. A tatoo is not. Those are the things that will bring increased grace into your soul. Do you think tatooing yourself will increase you in one drop more of divine grace in your soul? If it would then cover your whole body with them head to toe. This is not how grace works.

After people get one they want another one. That is the pattern. Why? The one did not fill the need they thought it would. If you put a few words on yourself somewhere, maybe putting a symbol somewhere else will complete the package and honor God and remind you of what you need to be reminded of more fully. It will make a more complete statement to you and God and the world that you are really committed to faith and your sins are behind you. Sure!

The human soul desires permanence. We crave it. This is programmed into us, into the core of our being. What is behind it is the longing for heaven, eternity. We want to say, there, it is finished, Jesus last words. We also crave beauty. This is also a longing for God.

We try to express these longings here on earth and satisfy them. We try to make things beautiful and permanent. But we can’t. Staining our hides is one way to try to do something permanent, something that can not be changed, something that is forever.

It is your soul that needs to be made beautiful for God and you can by God’s grace accomplish that. It is your soul that needs to be make pleasing to God. Dying your skin is useless. There is no grace to be had there. None, zero, zilch. Why bother!

The ink will not go deep enough. It will have no effect whatsoever on your soul. Whatever you are telling yourself, thinking that it will make you a better person, or holier, more pleasing to God, or change anything to help you on your journey is nothing but an illusion. Where do illusions come from? They never are inspirations from God.

As a fellow Christian I am going to respectfully reprimand you in light of Charity as Saint Paul tells me to. I don’t appreciate the tone being used, because it’s not discussion, it’s taking the form of superiority and haughtiness. Grandfather or not, it’s not called for. Besides, I’m more apt to accept your opinions if you present them as appealing rather than with hellfire.

1. I don’t think of this as a religious act. I think of it as a personal development with a religious tone.
2. NEVER did I ever say that I thought I was bringing grace to myself by getting a tattoo. You grossly misread what I wrote and frankly I’m offended because I don’t think that at all.
3. God isn’t telling me not to tattoo myself either. He gave me my body as my own, and I can tattoo it whether you or the Pope likes it or not. (I wonder if Benedict has one?! )
4. It’s not “some saying in Arabic”. It’s the Jesus Prayer. As you may or may not know, it’s one of the oldest prayers of our faith. Arabic has a personal meaning to me as well seeing as I’m learning it and I prefer the prayer’s meaning in Arabic as opposed to the English translation: they differ.
5. Again, as I read over what you’ve written, I see that you aren’t listening clearly to why I am contemplating getting one. It is incredibly ignorant and, in fact, pathetic and stupid for someone to think that if they tattoo themself with a prayer, they will receive grace. That’s not why I’m doing this. The reason I’m doing this (let me state again, for the fifth time!):
   The meaning of the prayer (Lord Jesus Messiah, have mercy on me, the sinner) shows ME, myself, I when I look at it that I am nothing. I can do nothing without Him because I am a sinner. And I’m so weak and forgetful and sinful, that I find it prudent to mark this on my body to remember it. Is that wrong?

 

[scapularkid8]

Also to answer the concerns of people who have said that others will not see the Christian message of the tattoo:

I’m not getting it in a place that will be visible to anyone during work or even while I have a shirt on. It’s going to be on my side on the ribs under the armpit in an inconspicuous place. It’s not for advertising at all, it’s for me. And I’m sure since I don’t look Arab or Muslim (not that they have a “look”, but most Muslims are Arab ), they will ask for a meaning. I’ll give it to them proudly.

I might also add a Coptic cross to the end of the prayer for the added Christian emphasis, but I’m not sure yet.