My Thoughts on the Episcopal Service I Attended Today

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Another appeal for me is that Anglicans often celebrate great feast days in the liturgical calendar with great solemnity. Today is the transferred feast of the Annunciation, and all the Catholic churches near me are just having an ordinary said mass whereas many of the Anglicans are having a proper sung mass. This is from St Mary Bourne Steet Anglican Church in London. Oh to have a mass like this at my parish!!:

stmarysbournest.com/media/resources/StM_Annunication_20131.pdf
 
stlcatholic86 said:
Ha, Vat II was only in the 1960s! I remember being grossed out about the tongue option as a kid mainly because I had only seen really old people (mind you I was 7) do it, but this makes more sense why people still held to that tradition. I’ve always been a cup-hand communion type of guy.

Interested about the baptism point, what about Catholic converts from other Christian traditions its my understanding that those baptisms count so at what point do they become Catholics?
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😊 Woops, I totally forgot about that category! They are baptized Christians and I believe they would then be sacramental Catholics when they receive Communion and the Eucharist. But don’t take my word for it, I’m no expert. All I know is, once you are “sworn in,” so to speak, there is no voluntary leaving. I believe that even excommunication does not make one an ex-Catholic, it is like a sanction so that the person can repent and return to the community in humility. (No one seems to ever be publicly excommunicated these days.)
 
stlcatholic86 said:
Interested about the baptism point, what about Catholic converts from other Christian traditions its my understanding that those baptisms count so at what point do they become Catholics?
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At the Profession of Faith during the Easter Vigil. Confirmation follows immediately afterward and is when we received the indelible mark of the Holy Spirit.
 
I noticed the Prayer of Humble Access immediately preceding the Non Sum Dignus which they said thrice as we do in the EF. The prayer’s apparently of Anglican origin and we already have the Non Sum Dignus which serves the same purpose so I didn’t care for it. The post-communion prayer is what caught my interest.
 
johnmann said:
I did a bit of research. Apparently the Prayer of Thanksgiving after Communion is a uniquely Anglican thing…
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I’m not sure if it’s close, but Lutheran church has a post-communion canticle and a prayer. This weeks prayer was:

Let us pray. We give you thanks, O God, that you make your home with us, bringing heaven to earth in this Holy Meal. Fill us with your Spirit as we go from here, that we may wipe away tears, tend to those in mourning and pain, seek the healing of nations, and bring to earth the presence of your Son, Jesus Christ, our Savior and Lord. Amen.

The prayer changes weekly (this weeks prayer wasn’t quite up to par) and centers around what just happened during Communion and our response to it.
 
johnmann said:
Good reverent music. How did Catholics screw this up so badly?
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I’ve often wondered this myself. Some folks on here have expressed the opinion that grand music is simply entertainment and has no place in the Mass. I, on the other hand, find good, reverent music to be uplifting. For me it greatly adds to the worship experience.
 
stlcatholic86 said:
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Interested about the baptism point, what about Catholic converts from other Christian traditions its my understanding that those baptisms count so at what point do they become Catholics?
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There is a ceremony where baptized converts are received into the church, usually taking place at the Easter vigil. Converts that were already confirmed (from the Polish National Catholic Church for example) are also received at this time.

Confirmation marks the soul, but alone doesn’t convey membership into the church (otherwise millions of teenagers in this country wouldn’t truly Catholic until the tenth grade!)
 
runningdude said:
There is a ceremony where baptized converts are received into the church, usually taking place at the Easter vigil. Converts that were already confirmed (from the Polish National Catholic Church for example) are also received at this time.

Confirmation marks the soul, but alone doesn’t convey membership into the church (otherwise millions of teenagers in this country wouldn’t truly Catholic until the tenth grade!)
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Ok that clears up some things, but does that mean a confirmation in anything Christian tradition can become valid in the Catholic Church?
 
stlcatholic86 said:
Ok that clears up some things, but does that mean a confirmation in anything Christian tradition can become valid in the Catholic Church?
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The only way confirmation can be valid is through apostolic succession. This is only true in the Catholic Rites in communion with Rome to my knowledge. I do not know of any Christian faiths that have valid confirmation as a Sacrament. The Lutheran and Methodist I do believe have confirmation both are protestant and are not recognized by Rome.

In some limited corners of the Anglican tradition there may be valid ordination, and therefore may have valid sacraments, but illicit none the less because of the separation.

Someone else may be able to help here. I would step out here however and say, if you were confirmed in the Lutheran Church you are indeed in need of RCIA and valid RCC confirmation.
 
When I was in college, I would normally attend the 7PM Sunday mass at our Newman Center, which was surprisingly well-attended for an institution that is considered a large “party school” by many.

On occasion, however, I would attend the Episcopal parish in town, both to experience a “real world” parish where most of the attendants were townsfolk and not associated with the local college bubble, but also to experience their magnificent music program, which included a stellar choir and organist accompanying a more solemn mass than anything I could ever get at Newman, or even at the local Catholic parish. However, I did find the preaching at Newman to be, on average, of considerably higher quality.
 
Can anyone explain why it is that the Catholic Church switched from more solemn masses to generally “blander” (for lack of a better word) services?

I remember when my friend would ask my to accompany her to a sung Latin Mass. It was a glorious experience. But I honestly can’t stomach the plain liturgies that are often done at Sunday masses. The Orthodox continue to have regular liturgies with all the solemnity of sung Mass in Catholicism. But I don’t understand why the same isn’t true with the Catholic Church. That is essentially what is offered as a “product” when trying to persuade Evangelicals to convert to Catholicism, yet the actual product seems different.
 
FabiusMaximus said:
Can anyone explain why it is that the Catholic Church switched from more solemn masses to generally “blander” (for lack of a better word) services?
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I googled around for the answer to this and found a popular theory that places the blame on Irish immigrants. Apparently in Ireland, silent Mass is/was the norm. American Catholic culture is largely Irish Catholic culture and that includes neglect of solemn music. That’s the theory anyway.

Whatever the reason, the good news is that things seem to be changing. We’ve left the dark ages of the 80s and 90s.
 
johnmann said:
I googled around for the answer to this and found a popular theory that places the blame on Irish immigrants. Apparently in Ireland, silent Mass is/was the norm. American Catholic culture is largely Irish Catholic culture and that includes neglect of solemn music. That’s the theory anyway.

Whatever the reason, the good news is that things seem to be changing. We’ve left the dark ages of the 80s and 90s.
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I think the “Irish” issue is often brought up as the reason why Catholics don’t sing hymns: there may be some truth in this, but having travelled across Europe, the lack of singing and lack of solemnity in mass seems universal, apart from in Germany where the opposite is true.

Germany embraced the liturgical movement more forcefully than elsewhere and because a gentle modernisation took place prior to Vatican II, their hymnals included a number of great traditional hymns (mainly Lutheran) which were sung at low mass and continue to this day. What I think happened elsewhere was that after Vatican II there was a flooding of new contempory music composed by Catholics - some good but mostly poor - and it was this material that came to be used rather than the great and majestic hymnody from the Anglican and Lutheran churches. I agree that this balance is very slowly being redressed.
 
Glad you liked the service. Not all Anglican worship is as good as that, but if you can get to a liturgically conservative parish, it is often the case that the music is excellent.
 
liturgyluver said:
I think the “Irish” issue is often brought up as the reason why Catholics don’t sing hymns: there may be some truth in this, but having travelled across Europe, the lack of singing and lack of solemnity in mass seems universal, apart from in Germany where the opposite is true.

Germany embraced the liturgical movement more forcefully than elsewhere and because a gentle modernisation took place prior to Vatican II, their hymnals included a number of great traditional hymns (mainly Lutheran) which were sung at low mass and continue to this day. What I think happened elsewhere was that after Vatican II there was a flooding of new contempory music composed by Catholics - some good but mostly poor - and it was this material that came to be used rather than the great and majestic hymnody from the Anglican and Lutheran churches. I agree that this balance is very slowly being redressed.
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So this essentially has happened in parishes across the world, not just the United States?

That’s unfortunate. 😦
 
Indifferently said:
Not all Anglican worship is as good as that
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Truth. The quality can vary just as much as among Catholics.

Episcopalians also have their own variation of the older/newer liturgy issue. Some parishes offer services from the '28 BCP as well as the '79 BCP, while others only offer services from the '79, and some bishops even prohibit use of the '28.
 
To be sure, it wasn’t all great. If you think Catholic churches are empty, you should go see an Episcopal church. Their one and only Sunday service was about as well attended as a typical early morning weekday Catholic Mass.
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I’d say the Real Presence makes a difference.

You do have a point with the music, though. Of course, if you want to attract (and keep) different people, it’s important to use that cultural Catholic flexibility that has gained us so many converts over the years 👍

But that also means not being stubborn about going to mass and feeling nostalgic about your First Communion or Confirmation by demanding this song or that song. :rolleyes:

Really…some people in the area Churches here are worried about how the bulletin is ordered. :rolleyes:
 
SuperLuigi said:
But that also means not being stubborn about going to mass and feeling nostalgic about your First Communion or Confirmation by demanding this song or that song. :rolleyes:
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It would just be nice if the music choices were at least suitable for the point in the liturgical year in which they fall, and for the section of the mass that they are covering. It’s not much to ask!
 
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