My Top-Ten Liturgical Abuses

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jpjd:
My, my, Pariah Pirana, aren’t we defensive. My post did not say I support liturgical abuse.

I am glad I belong to a parish where people are not scoping one another for acts of “liturgical abuse”.

No wonder folks new to the church think Catholics aren’t friendly. When I read some of the posts on this board, the thought that comes to mind is: “With friends like this, who needs enemies?”

Are we reflecting the light of Christ in all we do? Do our words and actions make people say, “That person has holiness, I want to be like that.” ?
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Actually, it appears that it is you that is acting defesively. I simply asked the following question:

Similarly, are those that introduce or support liturgical abuse "really receiving the Eucharist in a state of grace?"

Read into it what you will, but it is no way “defensive” – just probative.
 
Dr. Bombay:
When was the last time you saw the Church meddle in the state’s business, pray tell?
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Every time I have seen the Archbishop appear before ta legislative hearing; every time I have seen our lobbying arm working the halls of the Capitol before a vote on an issue dear to the church; every time I have seen the Church in a legal action due to a legislative mandate.

Fr. Rob SST suggested he would like the state to stay out of the Church’s business, which had started with state mandated bathrooms. He didn’t mention ADA, which has caused a lot of $s to be spent making churches handicap accessible.

If you didn’t get it, it was meant as tongue in cheek; both the state and the Church have a legitimate place in the public square, including the areas of legislation.
 
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FrRobSST:
My biggest abuse issue is when pastors commune non-baptized or non-Catholics who have no clue what they are doing. It’s one thing to take advantage of Canon 844 and similar provisions, but it’s quite another for the goofy guy to walk up and look around and then be given communion BY THE PRIEST!

I got into trouble a few years ago at the hospital when I refused to administer communion to an individual who obviously didn’t know what to do. And I don’t mean kneeling at the rail. He came up and stuck a hand out and said, “Yea, I want some of that too!”. I gave him a blessing with the Host and then tried explaining to him when he got loud that I couldn’t commune someone who did not share our faith in the Real, true, and genuine presence of Christ in the Eucharist. He complained to the Vice President of the hospital.

I wound up having to show a copy of our Rubrics and Canons, as well as get a RC priest and LCMS minister to come in and vouch for me (that I was doing something that was proper). Just ticked me off!

Rob+
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Why would you be ticked off? It was an excellent time to give witness to our faith. Aren’t we all called to evangelize? And wouldn’t that include those who have (obviously) no knowledge?
 
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dumspirospero:
I am very fortunate…I attend a Parish that has in Indult TLM every Sunday Morning at 0930, but the rest of the masses are NO and we still receive on the tongue, at altar rails, with a paten…I am so, so lucky to have such an orthodox Priest and Parish…I shopped around for a while and I struck gold.
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It would appear that you are making a judgement that those parishes which have no altar rail, distribute Communion in the hand, and don’t use a paten are somehow less orthodox. Perhaps you could explain, since they are following the rubrics, how that makes them less orthodox?

Or did you mean to say conservative, as opposed to orthodox, since both are orthodox?
 
Detroit Sue:
I loooove Fr. Ben! 🙂
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I think we should get a fan club together, like the former Cardinal Ratzinger has!!!

Maybe our shirts will be worth the big bucks when he becomes the NEXT Pope.
 
Pariah Pirana:
That’s unacceptable…

I remember attending a “liturgy planning meeting” at my parish once and an “EM” (that’s what they call themselves here too) complained about getting her fingers wet when distributing communion on the tongue. She demanded that it be “outlawed.”

I suggested that anyone lacking the hand/eye coordination to correctly distribute communion on the tongue might possibily not have the call to serve as an EMHC – that God would give anyone with such a call the ability to do the job correctly. That comment caused a great many purple faces with looks of hatred, but it stopped any foolish discussion on her “demand.”
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You are amazing! God Bless You!
 
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otm:
Why would you be ticked off? It was an excellent time to give witness to our faith. Aren’t we all called to evangelize? And wouldn’t that include those who have (obviously) no knowledge?
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Having to prove one’s faith so as to not lose one’s job is never fun.
Sorry, I agree with Rob, I would be miffed as well.
Perhaps afterward I could see it your way, but at the moment…
 
I was not saying that the others are less orthodox…I did not want to use the term conservative…because I have been guilty of using the term conservative and liberal when discussing matters of The Church…and I was not correct in doing such…we can not label The Church as either conservative or liberal, because it is neither…THe Church transcends both labels. THere is only orthodox and heterodox. With that said, I was only trying to say that my parish has both the NO and the TLM…both of them are reverent and orthodox…and for that, I am very lucky. I did not mean to come across as saying one was better than the other, because I understand and fully believe that if both of them follow the rubrics, etc. then they are both orthodox and one is not better than the other…it just becomes a matter of preference…my preference happens to be the TLM.
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otm:
It would appear that you are making a judgement that those parishes which have no altar rail, distribute Communion in the hand, and don’t use a paten are somehow less orthodox. Perhaps you could explain, since they are following the rubrics, how that makes them less orthodox?

Or did you mean to say conservative, as opposed to orthodox, since both are orthodox?
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I must be quite fortunate with my parish. Though it leans a bit on the liberal side of things, it is still doctrinally sound and the priests are really great men. So overall, I do not think we have any obvious liturgical abuses (and I once lived in the Diocese of Victoria in B.C. Canada, so believe me, I know liturgical abuse when I see it).

We do have our annoyances, though.

The one thing I cannot accept is the hand-holding during the Our Father. I am not a touchy-feely person, and I do not like to touch people if I do not have to.

Another thing is this implied thing where if you are reading from a missal, you are somehow not really being “involved” with the mass. Apparently, they want you to put the book down and “participate fully” in the mass by “listening with your heart.” I don’t like this, so I hold on to my St. Joseph Vatican II Sunday Missal like a gold brick.

One more thing: the music at the 10 AM Mass is way, way, waaaaayyyyy too Kumbaya. They actually have had a bongo player in the instrumental section! Thankfully, though, we switched to the noon mass, and to my pleasant surprise, their music is really good! Almost — dare I say this? ---- Anglican in their approach!
 
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otm:
Why would you be ticked off? It was an excellent time to give witness to our faith. Aren’t we all called to evangelize? And wouldn’t that include those who have (obviously) no knowledge?
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These people knew, but they challenged me as trying to be more Catholic than the pope because the local Latin Rite Archbishop issued a guideline to the EMHC’s, Deacons, and Priests that no-one who apprached the Eucharist was to be denied reception.

I noted that, while he may be fine with doing that, I am not. They kept insisting that I should just follow the Roman Rite practice here, to which I promptly said “No, I cannot”. That’s when I had to get an RC priest and an LCMS minister to stand with me and tell them that yes, closed or limited communion was the norm.

These people knew from the day I came on board that I wasn’t just going to give the sacrament to everyone who asked.

Rob+
 
Hey guys and gals,

I was just reading this thread and since I’m not Catholic can you tell me what this stuff means?

EMSC
celebrant
patens
TLM
lectors
laity
cantor
lavabo
kiss of peace
OCP music
indult TLM
RC priest
LCMS minister
missal

Thanks all, just trying to keep up!
 
Pariah Pirana:
You’re clearly commenting on something you know nothing about. The fruit cake woman was once the head of the “liturgical committee” at my parish. She knew darned well what she was doing – introducing grave abuse into the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

The cake went into the trash can so that she would not try to serve it up at the next Mass, only 90 minutes down the road.

My focus was on the Mass and those hundreds who were going to receive communion – not some individual with an evil agenda.
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I am surprised that this type of stuff goes on in the Vatican City State where you live. If it’s happening there, help us Lord!
 
EMSC
celebrant
the priest offering the mass
patens
a flat plate that the server standing next to the priest would use to make sure Eucharist on the tongue wouldn’t drop to the floor.
TLM
Traditional (or Tridentine) Latin Mass
lectors
a person who reads the readings
laity
regular people, non-ordained
cantor
leads in singing
lavabo
the vessel used for washing
kiss of peace
the part of the Mass where we shake hands
OCP music
Oregon Catholic Press see crisismagazine.com/january2002/feature2.htm
indult TLM
A Tridentine done with the Bishop’s permission
RC priest
Roman Catholic Priest
LCMS minister
missal
A book that contains the order of the Mass, as well as the readings for each week. You can follow along with what is said, your responses, and the prescribed postures.
 
Hugh Betcha:
Hey guys and gals,

I was just reading this thread and since I’m not Catholic can you tell me what this stuff means?

EMSC: Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion

celebrant: Main priest/bishop celebrating the Mass

patens: flat dish usually made of noble metal. A sacred vessel.

TLM: “the Latin Mass”

lectors: Latin for “readers.” Also an installed ministry for men.

laity: non-clergy or religious

cantor: lead singer

lavabo: washing of hands.

kiss of peace: greeting those around you.

OCP music: I have no idea.

indult TLM: TLM allowed by papal indult (permission) per Ecclesia Dei

RC priest: Royale Crown Priest? (Some might say “Roman Catholic”)

LCMS minister: Missouri Synod Lutherans

missal: The Roman Missal = Sacramentary + Lectionary + some additional rituals. The main liturgical book of the western church.

Thanks all, just trying to keep up!
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I can tell you some of them.

EMSC

celebrant - The priest or bishop who celebrates Mass

patens - small plates placed on top of chalices to hold the large host. Also similar plates, not often used now, used during communion to catch dropped fragments of the Blessed Sacrament.

TLM - Tridentine Latin Mass.

lectors - readers who proclaim the first & second readings, and sometimes the psalm.

laity - any baptized Catholic who is not clergy (bishop, priest or deacon) or Religious (Clergy in a religious order, religious brothers or religious sisters). The ordinary folks in the pews.

cantor - person who leads songs, usually also the psalm.

lavabo - the act of the priest washing his hands before the Consecration, also the basin used for this hand-washing

kiss of peace - also sign of peace, usually a handshake

OCP music - Oregon Catholic Press, a publishing company that publishes missalettes, hymnals & sheet music.

indult TLM - a latin Mass that is authorized by the church, not one done by a schismatic group.

RC priest - Roman Catholic Priest.

LCMS minister

missal - book which contains the prayers & instructions for Mass. Often printed in two volumes: the Lectionary, which contains the readings, and the Sacramentary which contains everything else. The laity are usually provided with an abbreviated missal called a missalette, which might also have some hymns.

I’m not familiar with a couple of those acronyms. I probably could make a good guess if I saw them in context, but I’m feeling too lazy to go back and look for them now.
 
Re: #33- It’s true! Throwing away that cake was a terrible waste! Those slices could have been used in some kind of construction. Maybe the foundation blocks to a memorial, like “The Wall of Liturgical Abuse” or such. When the first rain started to dissolve the blankety-blank thing, (or maybe the fifth rain, depending upon just how sturdy the abusive material really is) the “symbology” of which some offenders are so fond would be clear. And, when the mourners were meeting at “The Wall”, they wouldn’t be causing consternation at Mass. A win-win! It could become a regional, then a statewide, then a national and then a worldwide movement. Contributions would flood in from parishes from all corners, and it would be truly “grassroot”. I’m excited just thinking about it…
 
Pariah Pirana:
You’re clearly commenting on something you know nothing about. The fruit cake woman was once the head of the “liturgical committee” at my parish. She knew darned well what she was doing – introducing grave abuse into the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
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I see. So based on your training at Two Wrongs Make a Right Jr. High, you decided it was appropriate to be discourteous and proud of it.

What a lovely example.
 
Hugh,

Check your private messages. I just sent you one explaining these terms.
 
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