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zaffiroborant
Guest
Could you provide more information on this because in my experience the Methodists and the Lutherans aren’t stingy with providing humanitarian aid. Locally I’ve seen a great deal of joint work between my church the Lutherans and the Methodists. I am quite sure that many churches provide large amounts of humanitarian aid and you could couple these groups together and get the same thing.
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PopeBono
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Sorry I did not mean to imply that other churches do not provide large amounts of humanitarian aid. I was just trying to point out how well the LDS church and the Catholic Church have worked well together on some of the largest relief efforts throughout the world. you can do a google search of church humanitarian aid and probably get enough information of how great all churches are at helping out those in need.
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amontoya
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Could you please provide me with some references regarding the highlighted points?
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Todd520
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That’s what earlier generations in my family were taught (Catholics from Midwest)
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KathleenGee
Guest
The Catholic Church finally made a definitive decree that women could not be ordained priests in 1994.
It was never an issue until now because we live in the times of unisex.
It was never an issue until now because we live in the times of unisex.
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Jim_Dandy
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datamonkey
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There is a lot of broad statements made about the morals and behavior or both groups (Mormons and Catholic).
In my little world, I see both sides. My wife and two sons are Morman
and I am a praticing Catholic
. The teen/college age kids in my Parish have a life outside the Church. They associate with different groups and have friends from a variety of faiths and beliefs.
The Mormon Church provides a lot of activities for their teen/college age kids (as well as adults). Most of the free time available to other non–Morman kids are chucked full of faith building activities every Mormon kid is expected to attend. They spend very little time outside of Church organized activities and with others of different backgrounds (unless they are trying to get them to convert).
Being supervised virtually 24/7 really impacts their behavior. If the Catholic Church had the same demands on thier members, thier kids would probably be the same. Personally, I think this level of control by the Mormon Church is meant to keep their members towing the line; making sure they don’t stray too far from the pack. It also results in a the members continually gossiping about each other (what they’re doing and what they aren’t doing).
Way too big brother for my taste.
In my little world, I see both sides. My wife and two sons are Morman
and I am a praticing Catholic. The teen/college age kids in my Parish have a life outside the Church. They associate with different groups and have friends from a variety of faiths and beliefs.The Mormon Church provides a lot of activities for their teen/college age kids (as well as adults). Most of the free time available to other non–Morman kids are chucked full of faith building activities every Mormon kid is expected to attend. They spend very little time outside of Church organized activities and with others of different backgrounds (unless they are trying to get them to convert).
Being supervised virtually 24/7 really impacts their behavior. If the Catholic Church had the same demands on thier members, thier kids would probably be the same. Personally, I think this level of control by the Mormon Church is meant to keep their members towing the line; making sure they don’t stray too far from the pack. It also results in a the members continually gossiping about each other (what they’re doing and what they aren’t doing).
Way too big brother for my taste.
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Jim_Dandy
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You can’t be “talked over” on the Internet.
I have absolutely no problem with your beliefs. You and all LDS are free to believe as you wish. But I object to your identification of yourselves and your religion as “Christian.” Your beliefs are definitely not Christian. For example:
Christianity is monotheistic, Mormons are polytheistic (or henoistic, if you prefer). The God of Christianity is pure spirit. Mormons believe God was once a man like us, of flesh and bones, who went through a process of “exaltation”. You are told that you also will be “exalted” and become a God like Heavenly Father and rule over your own world and produce spirit children with your goddess wives forevermore if you give 10% of your gross income to the LDS and obey other rules. You believe Jesus and Satan are spirit children, brothers, produced by Heavenly Father and his goddess wives. They both volunteered to come to earth and save us. In the past the LDS taught that God had intercourse with the Virgin Mary (who then would have been no longer a virgin), then Jesus – the spirit child in a pre-existent state – was born on earth. That teaching is now denied.
The non-Christian and anti-Christian Mormon beliefs are extensive. There is the matter of Joseph Smith’s estimated 66 or 67 wives and his teaching of polygamy, now prohibited on earth but practiced in heaven. The LDS concept of heaven and hell and life after death are not Christian. I can’t think of a single Mormon belief that is Christian. Mormonism was founded by Joseph Smith in 1830 in New York. Christianity (Catholicism) was founded by Jesus Christ in A.D. 33 in Jerusalem. Mormons believe the Church founded by God Himself failed at the end of the first century, but the one founded in the 19th century by a treasure seeker who found treasure by looking through “peep stones” in his hat is the ‘true church’. LDS teaches that the Catholic Church, who wrote the New Testament during the first century, became ‘apostate’ at the end of that century. The Catholic Church selected and canonized 27 of her own writings and named them New Testament at the end of the fourth century. At the same time, the Church canonized 46 writings from the Septuagint that she inherited from Jesus and the Apostles and named them the Old Testament. Her entire collection of sacred Scripture she named ta Biblia, the “Little Books,” the Bible. The Catholic Church was then nearly 400 years old. Why would the LDS use the Bible formed by a Church they claim is apostate?
No offense intended, but those are only some of the facts.
Peace be with you, Jim Dandy
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PopeBono
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Jim being Mormon I have heard everything, It no longer offends me to hear another persons belief about our church. I have a full reconciliation with every Anti-Mormon material I have heard and understand the scriptural backing of statements that have truth mixed with error in the anti-Mormon material.You can’t be “talked over” on the Internet.
I have absolutely no problem with your beliefs. You and all LDS are free to believe as you wish. But I object to your identification of yourselves and your religion as “Christian.” Your beliefs are definitely not Christian. For example:
Christianity is monotheistic, Mormons are polytheistic (or henoistic, if you prefer). The God of Christianity is pure spirit. Mormons believe God was once a man like us, of flesh and bones, who went through a process of “exaltation”. You are told that you also will be “exalted” and become a God like Heavenly Father and rule over your own world and produce spirit children with your goddess wives forevermore if you give 10% of your gross income to the LDS and obey other rules. You believe Jesus and Satan are spirit children, brothers, produced by Heavenly Father and his goddess wives. They both volunteered to come to earth and save us. In the past the LDS taught that God had intercourse with the Virgin Mary (who then would have been no longer a virgin), then Jesus – the spirit child in a pre-existent state – was born on earth. That teaching is now denied.
The non-Christian and anti-Christian Mormon beliefs are extensive. There is the matter of Joseph Smith’s estimated 66 or 67 wives and his teaching of polygamy, now prohibited on earth but practiced in heaven. The LDS concept of heaven and hell and life after death are not Christian. I can’t think of a single Mormon belief that is Christian. Mormonism was founded by Joseph Smith in 1830 in New York. Christianity (Catholicism) was founded by Jesus Christ in A.D. 33 in Jerusalem. Mormons believe the Church founded by God Himself failed at the end of the first century, but the one founded in the 19th century by a treasure seeker who found treasure by looking through “peep stones” in his hat is the ‘true church’. LDS teaches that the Catholic Church, who wrote the New Testament during the first century, became ‘apostate’ at the end of that century. The Catholic Church selected and canonized 27 of her own writings and named them New Testament at the end of the fourth century. At the same time, the Church canonized 46 writings from the Septuagint that she inherited from Jesus and the Apostles and named them the Old Testament. Her entire collection of sacred Scripture she named ta Biblia, the “Little Books,” the Bible. The Catholic Church was then nearly 400 years old. Why would the LDS use the Bible formed by a Church they claim is apostate?
No offense intended, but those are only some of the facts.
Peace be with you, Jim Dandy
This is usually the case; there is truth to what is being said but almost always it is presented in a manner inconsistent with official church statement of the doctrine.
In almost all cases additional anti-Mormon statements are made as being 100% fact when in reality they are truth mixed with error on the presenters part and presented in a way that is intended to blind out the context.
For example" Mormons BELIEVE SATAN and JESUS were BROTHERS. The truth in that is we believe Satan was lived with us in a pre-mortal life where he became fallen for rebellion. From that a person could draw that since we were all created by God we are spiritually related having the same creator but the doctrine does not state Jesus and Satan are brothers. It is a logical philosophy. If I was to go out and tell people Jim and I are Brothers people would thing that we are actual brothers which is not correct although we are brothers in the spiritual sense.
If you wish to point out LDS doctrines that you find offensive to warn others of what you perceive to be blasphemy and of great danger to the souls of others then you should do so if you feel you are called to do so but please present things in an honest manner that truly represents our official Church Doctrine and then I can answer honestly but when the doctrine is presented in a manner not in representation of official Church Doctrine then it is difficult to answer because I have to first point out the false claims first.
You will find that I will answer you with honesty and to the best of my ability if given the chance. I believe in my faith and will not run from it.
As far as why we accept a bible from an “apostate” church I posted earlier a link to a lengthy statement on our church’s view on the Apostasy. If you cannot find it I can repost it. From that document you can feel free to point out errors that are of concern to you.
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RebeccaJ
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Which is blasphemous to Christianity. Jesus IS GOD. Creator of all things, including the angels, of which Satan is a fallen angel.
God is neither angel or human. God is God.
God is neither angel or human. God is God.
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Jim_Dandy
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Not true. Christianity teaches equality of the genders. The Church changed attitudes around the world because of her veneration of Mary. Unfortunately, not in Muslim countries, where women have their noses cut off and are stoned to death by a male-dominated society.
A sacristan is not a maid. The sacristans were often nuns.
Only the ordained may read scripture from the pulpit in the Tridentine (Latin) Rite – now called the Extraordinary Form EF) of the Mass. That is still true today.
Laypersons may read some scripture, but not the Gospel, at the Novus Ordo (now called the Ordinary Form (OF) of the Mass in the vernacular, adopted by Vatican II.
Neither laymen nor laywomen are allowed to preach in the Catholic Church, either in the EF (Latin) or in the OF of the Mass (in the vernacular).
Neither laymen nor laywomen were allowed to distribute Communion until Vatican II.
Girls were not allowed to serve the Mass until 1994, but not because they were considered inferior to boys. Altar boys can be priests when they grow up. Altar girls cannot. John Paul II granted permission, only with the approval of local bishops. In certain dioceses, altar girls are still not allowed.
Prove this statement or retract it.
Provide the evidence. This was a Jewish practice.
Only an ordained person (priest) was allowed to handle the chalice and paten until the Novus Ordo Mass (OF) was adopted by Vatican II. But the altar linens were washed by the nuns or the Sacristan, often a woman.
Headcoverings in Church for women were the norm for centuries, based on St. Paul’s admonition: “Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a women to pray to God with her head unveiled?” 1 Cor 11:13.
You’re wrong about some of these, as I have indicated. The new Mass, the Novus Ordo, the Ordinary Form of the Mass (OF) in the vernacular, was adopted at Vatican II, 1962-65.
The EF (Latin) still does not give laypersons, except male altar servers, roles in the Mass. The OF allows laypersons to be Lectors or Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion. This was a necessity because of the shortage of priests.
A married clergy could not serve the Church as well as a celebate clergy has for centuries. I don’t know why this would be an issue for anyone except a man considering the priesthood. Celibacy is voluntary, you know.
“An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord. But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and he is divided” 1 Cor 7:32-34.
Tell me, Todd, is this list your own writing? It gives the impression of having been cut and pasted, mainly the syntax and vocabulary. Your inability to defend it – other than saying that’s what you were taught – reinforces that. Lemme no.
Peace, Jim Dandy
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Jim_Dandy
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Women will never be ordained priests in the Catholic Church. The Church is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:25-33; 2 Cor 11:2; Rev 21:9-14, 22:17). Women cannot take a Bride. Women priests would constitute a homosexual relationship between themselves and the Bride – the Church. Priests are alter Christus – they stand in the place of Christ in the Sacraments. It is Christ who confects the Eucharist in the Mass, hears confessions and gives absolution in Confession, anoints the sick, etc. The priest is his representative. A woman cannot image Christ.
Roma locuta est; causa finita est. Rome has spoken; the case is closed.
The LDS is a religion where God often changes his mind, so you’ll have better luck there.
Jim Dandy
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
Please, Bono, my criticism of Mormonism is not directed at you or any Mormon personally. My criticism is of your religion’s founder – Joseph Smith.
The Catholic Church is the largest provider of humanitarian services in the world – providing more aid than any government in all the countries of the world and to all peoples regardless of race, religion, social status, or any factor except their humanity and their need. I have not heard of any joint efforts between Catholic social service agencies and Mormons. Could you please provide documentation? Mormons are well known not to give aid except to their own members, and then only to members in good standing. You say that has changed? Thanks.
Peace, Jim Dandy
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PaulDupre
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That’s strange coming from a man whose church has an all-male priesthood.
In the Catholic Church men and women hold the common priesthood of the baptized equally. Mormon women hold no priesthood at all.
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PaulDupre
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I advise you not to express that opinion in front of other Mormons. Many people have been excommunicated from the LDS church for espousing such views.
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PopeBono
Guest
Paul that would not be grounds for excommunication. Excommunication for someones personal belief that is contrary to official doctrine would only happen when the person of such belief preaches it as factual and from the pew.
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CatholicFireman
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Take a ride to Front Royal VA sometime. There’s a very traditional Catholic college but it has it’s “groups”. And not little groups either. Unfortunately, no place is immune.
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Todd520
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Paul, you funny guy :yup: :clapping:
I fully support current LDS doctrine AND Catholic doctrine. However, if Vegas was taking bets and I would be around to collect in 100 yrs, you know where I’d place my bet.
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